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  • #221
  • Oct 30, 2014 9:20am Oct 30, 2014 9:20am
Quoting RockRobb
{quote} {quote} After victorious moments, why you guys experience this? What's been missing? Ever analyze it?
without going into too deep now, I think one of the reason the mentality like trader34's.
in our mind we create the expectations, as well as the limitations.
say I would like to run my own online white label brokerage, but I never will...simple because I don't know how, thus I don't see myself doing it.
on the same time, it isn't at all sure I couldn't do it!
but due my own inhibitions and limitations, I don't even try going for it....that is one of a limitation I talk about.
same goes when trading.
conventionally, in my mind, 100% a month return registered like something the ultimate maximum I could make in a month, like an ultimate target...and what is beyond our ultimate target...not much.
needed to extend the reality, take in that what I see on some trade explorers are not only 'luck' maybe, but a reality alternative to mine.

such high growth is probably not sustainable, but KNOWING that it is possible, help to sustain it!
not the growth maybe, but the balance in general. the point is, it doesn't have to be 150% a day!
I most definitely haven't sit down today that now I will make 150%...but after 20%+, neither I stopped and read trader34's (sorry not wanting to pick on you really) comment that hey, this is impossible, unsustainable, better I stop here and now...just because someone else's reality say 5% a month is great, 10% a week is not possible, or I should not trade for more than 2% a day, else it is only luck, etc.

yes, I might lose. surely, I will. maybe even the whole account...
but knowing that it is possible, and there are territories beyond what the 'smart/conservative/not lucky' traders tell is set lots of possibilities, once thought impossible!!

I might share some more of my thoughts about this, if there are few who don't be bothered about it, but then it will probably be on my own thread, I don't want to hijack this place with my own thoughts.
only wanted to say that we create and live in our own reality. but this reality is elastic and can be expanded. or we can just get by within.
our own choice!
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #222
  • Oct 30, 2014 10:16am Oct 30, 2014 10:16am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} ..... such high growth is probably not sustainable, but KNOWING that it is possible, help to sustain it! not the growth maybe, but the balance in general. the point is, it doesn't have to be 150% a day! I most definitely haven't sit down today that now I will make 150%...but after 20%+, neither I stopped and read trader34's (sorry not wanting to pick on you really) comment that hey, this is impossible, unsustainable, better I stop here and now...just because someone else's reality say 5% a month is great, 10% a week is not possible, or I...
I didn't say it is impossible to make such fantastic gains, nor did i suggest you should stop doing what you are doing...but i stand by unsustainable. I KNOW there is a chance i can win the lottery tomorrow....but can I repeat it?! That is the key question. You can create whichever reality you want, to condition a positive mindset, but in Forex, the parameters of that reality are not determined by you or I. We are all at it's mercy. Our job is to limit the risk, while maximising profit.

So, you can make 100% per month, and prove to yourself that somehow it is possible. No one will deny that it is. But, can this really help you sustain it?
Can you and your family live from the constant ups and downs in your account balance? You can be as positive as you like in your mindset, but after suffering 95% draw down you will go hungry that month if you plan to trade for a living.

Mental limitations are not the same as realism. You can program your mind as much as you wish that you will be a billionaire tomorrow...but it will not happen. It is better to take a more realistic approach, not by what others tell you is possible, but by what you experience. I believe you will struggle to find anyone who has experienced sustainable gains of the magnitude you are talking about.

Any long term successful trader will agree that 95% draw down is not a good system, regardless of any short term gains. Such a system or, more importantly, such an approach to the markets is not a recipe for success.
This has nothing to do with any pre-set limitations, but more the knowledge of the markets and the conditions of trading.

My mentality is fine, I have more than doubled an account over the last 6 months with only 7% draw down. But, I stay realistic.

There is no certainty that I will continue to do this, should the conditions change. Nor will I start increasing my risk heavily based on my win rate. Compounding works both ways. When you are winning it's great, but when you lose, the fall is far faster and the road to recovery will take far longer. If you plan to trade full time, as your primary income source, these are things you must factor in.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to kill anyone's aspirations of success. But as i stated before, misinformation and unrealistic expectations are the death of most Forex traders.
If any of us hope to make a living from this industry, we must learn to put our expectations in line with reality, and our account balances don't lie. I'm not sure how much capital you are using, but regardless, your TE shows -46% total return...in around 2 months. If you traded for a living, how would you get your income this month?
I doubt that a mentality shift will turn this around very quickly, but hey, I'm open....by all means prove me wrong!
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #223
  • Oct 30, 2014 10:39am Oct 30, 2014 10:39am
the TE...if you go to read things up about my posts, there was an IB problem, thus I withdrew my money on TheSpikeChallenge...what I had left was zero own cash there, and some trade only bonus...by now it looks a little differently...
TheNewHope that received the cash, and trades as is now...this week is up +450, stared with just bellow 1500...The Spike TE profit is additional, as profit is withdrawable.
Not that I need to explain it.
Also, in case you care, I never made a secret about the DD...especially since for 3 weeks there was no losing day there, nor since that DD...could easily remove it, but then what would it accomplish, really. However put in consideration that the TE was at 100%+ before DD, so, I am not 50% from BE, only about 25% maybe...again, it doesn't matter.

this is out of the open...ups, it was never hidden the first place...back to topic.
there is a point about sustaining...
but my major points were...
A. it can be more than oneself believe
B. it doesn't need to sustain to a fix %age gain...but gains in general can sustain, and don't have to limit yourself just because the conventional thinking.

there is often quoted the story about running a mile in less than 4 min. and how impossible that is...I am sure everyone is familiar with it, if not, look it up, worth.

see, all I say, we set our mind to a target, within our reality. but that doesn't mean there is nothing beyond. only our belief that might unconsciously hold us back sometimes to reach higher.

I am not to criticize your thinking/mentality. but why not be open for something different.

my trading isn't change 180 degree overnight...but fighting after the DD, and not throwing the tower, when one would think that the best to do...well, along the way I broke down that belief of mine about the 100% barrier.
KNOWING it is possible, and knowing it is POSSIBLE BY MYSELF, is something I haven't think could happen...ie changed the view of how I see my reality, regardless of balance, trade explorer, monthly expenses.
I am sure you not for a moment thought that I started to trade 90$ account to make a living, nor that I turned around the 3$ left in hope that I will be a billionaire by the end of the year!
No, my reality doesn't border with those thoughts...yet?
it was interesting to achieve +2000 % after blew up the account...it would be interesting to do it again, even more so!
but then, if I make a conventional and acceptable +100% in the next 2 months, I wont be unhappy neither.

You missed a big point!
These posts of mine were about anything but the money!!

Have a nice day!

ps; really, no more commenting on this thread from me, my thread or mails only.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #224
  • Oct 30, 2014 12:09pm Oct 30, 2014 12:09pm
soros, when you will start your journey? and start create an explorer?

we waiting loo
we don't predict, we only ride
  • #225
  • Oct 30, 2014 5:59pm Oct 30, 2014 5:59pm
Quoting trader34
{quote} Exuberant growth Vs. sustainable growth. That's the only analysis needed. Anyone can be lucky..triple their account in a day...but this cannot be maintained in the long term! The only way you can have this type of roller coaster account balance is with unsustainable risk. Any system that has even close to 90% draw down is not a profitable system long term. Sooner or later it will blow the account. It is mathematical fact. This is not a model to build wealth. Statistically, the faster the account growth, the more severe the draw down. This...
Again another great post and I have felt that feeling of "I know I can't do this all the time"..however there are times when you're on fire and you are doing really well...but yes I agree I would much rather have smaller consistent winnings that I know I can do over and over (the Holy Grail really should be boring!! It should be so repetitious and boring..that's what I want). To make killer profits fast you generally are using either too much leverage (or it is a news pumped event) but really both are not the norm. However for me, my average is about 20% per month so far but as the account grows dynamics change also. However if I make 100% per year overall I would be very happy..do that for 10 years and you will be free of your desk job! Great post by Trader34...positive yet with wisdom!
  • #226
  • Oct 30, 2014 6:11pm Oct 30, 2014 6:11pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} without going into too deep now, I think one of the reason the mentality like trader34's. in our mind we create the expectations, as well as the limitations. say I would like to run my own online white label brokerage, but I never will...simple because I don't know how, thus I don't see myself doing it. on the same time, it isn't at all sure I couldn't do it! but due my own inhibitions and limitations, I don't even try going for it....that is one of a limitation I talk about. same goes when trading. conventionally, in my mind, 100% a month...
This is a really quality post. You have mentioned some things that say a lot about your mindset and you are in very good position and wise about a lot of things! thank you
All posts are my personal opinion
  • #227
  • Edited 8:11pm Oct 30, 2014 7:57pm | Edited 8:11pm
Hi all,

Would just like to bud in to the debate between Profitfarmer and my friend T34. (I don't think Soros will mind, and in any case I think this is well within the bounds of the discussion about whether rags to riches is possible.)

Specifically, I would like to comment on the point about whether 100% profit per month is possible or sustainable in general terms (beyond the particular TE).

I think the time span (be it 100% per month or per year) is largely irrelevant. What matters is how many trades the system/trader initiates per month and with how much risk.

So, if I initiate just one trade per month, risking 100% of my account, then if I have a reasonably high profit ratio of 70% I will eventually get burned. (You might think of withdrawing your profits on a regular basis in this case, but that will limit compounding, and also losing trades of 3 or 4 or 5 etc times in a row are in no way statistically improbable.)

But now think of a scalper who initiates 1000 trades per day, either manually or mechanically via an automated system he created. Let's limit his profit ratio to 60%. And let's limit his (account) risk to 1%. You can see how this person could make 100% in a month. You can also see why his system will be sustainable: what are the chances of losing so many times in a row that his account will be blown?

So I think 100% is perfectly possible as long as you increase the frequency of your trades. (And, the greater the frequency, the lesser the required risk.)

Just think of DC's superhero Flash (or Marvel's Quicksilver if that's your allegiance!), but imagine him as a trader! The quicker he is, the more he can do within a limited time span. Time becomes relative: what matters is how many trades you can perform. So yeah under those circumstances I think 100% in a month is perfectly possible and sustainable. If you can make 100% in a year then what's to stop you making it in a month? You only have to crunch a year into a month, and you don't have to be a quantum physicist to do that!

And in case you think this is purely theoretical, I'd like to mention that I was watching an episode of the first season of the Wall Street Warriors docu series just yesterday. In it a Russian guy, a day trader, mentioned that he or they (I don't remember which of the two, but it doesn't matter since they managed the same fund) took more than a thousand trades per day, manually! (But it's worth noting that since they trade really large sums they probably don't use any leverage which makes it highly doubtful that they make 100% per month no matter how positive their R:R!)

That's all! Have a nice day!
  • #228
  • Oct 31, 2014 3:18am Oct 31, 2014 3:18am
Quoting AlexCy
........But now think of a scalper who initiates 1000 trades per day, either manually or mechanically via an automated system he created. Let's limit his profit ratio to 60%. And let's limit his (account) risk to 1%. You can see how this person could make 100% in a month. You can also see why his system will be sustainable: what are the chances of losing so many times in a row that his account will be blown? So I think 100% is perfectly possible as long as you increase the frequency of your trades. (And, the greater the frequency, the lesser the...
Hi Alex,
Yes, you are absolutely right on this point. Gains (and losses) are all relative, to the frequency and duration of the trades. If someone has the capacity to manually trade that many signals, and monitor them successfully then it is mathematically plausible that they could reach huge gains, provided the system and execution is sound.
I would say though, that in order to do this, most likely you will not trade anything larger than 5m charts, and/or be shooting for very small pip ranges. So yes, mathematically it can work, but the slightest variable in execution could greatly affect the outcome. But, I don't want to go over that again, it has been covered. Also, the risk per trade must be kept in check.

In a way, I admire profitfarmer's positive outlook, and we should all strive to achieve more than we thought possible...but in my opinion, you run the risk of losing the grasp of reality needed to survive for years to come. Sure, never give up...but you should analyse your trades, and look for potential improvements, or simply throw that system away or adapt it. The best traders in the world, the Paulsons and Tudor-Jones' all stress the importance of post trade analysis.
I have thrown many methods away, reluctantly too! I'm absolutely sure if ANY of my systems lost more than 50% of my account, it would be gone.
I KNOW i could win the lottery tomorrow...it is possible....but everything in life is based on probability, trading more so. I won't base my family's future on high risk, low probability.

I must admit I hadn't read Profitfarmers thread previously, i only looked at the TE which i saw in negative. OK, he withdrew funds, so I will disregard that spike TE.
Then I moved on to the one labelled "new hope."
Ok, first I will congratulate anyone who can generate 25% in 6 days. Some transfers occurred, but it is impressive.
But, look in a little detail at it. http://www.forexfactory.com/profitfarmer#59-report
Av trade pips 2.1!
Av trade return 2.5%.

If this doesn't ring alarm bells, then something is wrong.
Looking at the trade list, the biggest pip win was 7.4 pips, and that took half an hour.
The biggest % win was 5pip gain of 20% in 3 minutes.

I feel the need to repeat this...5 pips was worth 20% of the account! I challenge anyone to find me a truly successful long term trader, and any millionaire who would risk 4% of their account on every pip! What happens if spreads rise to 3 pips on SL? A random news event? The account would be in trouble quickly if multiple trades were open. My guess is the Russian guys are not risking 4% of their managed capital on 1 pip, 1000 times per day!

I really don't mean to be too disrespectful to Profitfarmer, and he is within his rights to hide balances and lot sizes...but this account is most likely no more than a few hundred dollars. That's fine, I'm not condescending; but this approach would be insane on an account size in the $10k+ mark. Well, unless you are fine with losing it all.
This is key to the whole theme of the thread, "Rags to riches" and my overall grievance with the unrealistic approach of massive gains in short times.

Four.owls is spot on with his post, you can have great periods, and you should absolutely make the most of them. But more than likely it will not go on forever, so you need to make sure when losses come, you can survive them. And as for losing streaks...the chances can be low...but never say never! The trick is to survive the unexpected. Huge gains are possible monthly, sure...but everything is relative, so chances are the losses will be huge too.

Four.owls, by the way, that is an excellent monthly average, and you seem grounded enough to take the good with the bad, should the bad ever come. That attitude will get you through. My concern is people expecting too much too soon without putting in real effort to learn the whole business.

Rags to riches? A better description would be rags, to cleaner rags, back to old rags, back to better rags, then to comfort, then to riches!
The path will not be linear. Even the most famous traders experienced either near, or total wipe out at some point. The steady minded persisted to success.

As four.owls said, 100% return per year is success by any definition. That win % held over 5 years compounded, with a $5k initial deposit will yield $a 160k+ account. At this point some changes/account splitting should be considered due to brokerage issues as previously mentioned, but you would be well on your way to your millionaire status, and most importantly, be a free and independent individual with no boss but yourself.
That should be the goal. Once you can survive solely on trading, the road to wealth becomes more clear and defined in reality.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #229
  • Oct 31, 2014 5:14am Oct 31, 2014 5:14am
Quoting trader34
{quote} Hi Alex, Yes, you are absolutely right on this point. Gains (and losses) are all relative, to the frequency and duration of the trades. If someone has the capacity to manually trade that many signals, and monitor them successfully then it is mathematically plausible that they could reach huge gains, provided the system and execution is sound. I would say though, that in order to do this, most likely you will not trade anything larger than 5m charts, and/or be shooting for very small pip ranges. So yes, mathematically it can work, but the...
Hi Trader34 and everyone else..I am happy to provide proof of my progress,,and most likely you will see a month of great growth, then a not so crash hot month etc...however my greatest weakness is taking profits too soon as I usually have most trades go my way but too quick to take profit but then again taking profit is a harder art than it sounds! I don't expect to have a perfect 5 year run, but if I reach 100K in 5 years then considering started very small I will be happy! HOnestly if I am in the 5% who make then I will be happy. I also take a screen shot when I enter a trade and then when I exit and I analyze everything....and ask myself hard questions...this has helped immensely because before I take a trade I imagine I am explaining it to a very hard boss (me) later about why I decided to enter...and that helps...I ask myself would I recommend this to someone I really wanted to see succeed etc! LOL..it's funny but it is all in your mind! You succeed because you choose good entries, you choose not to kamikaze trade stupid stuff or get greedy...or not set SLosses which I use to do....oh my I wiped myself several times!
Anyway good luck to all...move forward with the wisdom and keeness of sight of an OWL,,my symbol! I keep a really nice metal owl statue at the desk that just stares at me...."Are you trading well, or is this trade hurting your future prospects?"......
  • #230
  • Oct 31, 2014 5:48am Oct 31, 2014 5:48am
Quoting trader34
{quote} Hi Alex, Yes, you are absolutely right on this point. Gains (and losses) are all relative, to the frequency and duration of the trades. If someone has the capacity to manually trade that many signals, and monitor them successfully then it is mathematically plausible that they could reach huge gains, provided the system and execution is sound. I would say though, that in order to do this, most likely you will not trade anything larger than 5m charts, and/or be shooting for very small pip ranges. So yes, mathematically it can work, but the...

I certainly agree with everything you say. We should all keep our feet firmly on the ground. Realistic optimism is the ideal stance here.

Another point I would like to repeat, one I mentioned in an earlier post, is that it's far easier to turn 100 dollars into 200 than it is to turn a million into two million. In the latter case it will be hard to have high leverage, because the other side would be less inclined to assume the risk, etc.

I'm just adding this because I suspect one of the reasons people sometimes find incredible the idea that one could double his account safely in a month, is because they immediately think that this will lead the trader to billionaire status in no time, and since this seems absurd, ergo it's impossible to double your account in one month. The false premise here is that all amounts of money are created equal, and that's just not the case in trading. If we keep that in mind, suddenly the general sense of implausibility is somewhat lifted from the claim that one could double his account safely in so short a time (in certain cases).

Of course that's not to say that safely doubling your account, even a small one, is easy. It's extremely hard. I certainly wouldn't want to be construed as giving people false hope here. My point is more...academic! More like hair-splitting than anything!
  • #231
  • Oct 31, 2014 6:01am Oct 31, 2014 6:01am
Quoting trader34
{quote} Hi Alex, Yes, you are absolutely right on this point. Gains (and losses) are all relative, to the frequency and duration of the trades. If someone has the capacity to manually trade that many signals, and monitor them successfully then it is mathematically plausible that they could reach huge gains, provided the system and execution is sound. I would say though, that in order to do this, most likely you will not trade anything larger than 5m charts, and/or be shooting for very small pip ranges. So yes, mathematically it can work, .....
of course you are right!
my posts were never about my TE though, nor about my trading.
you completely missed the points I tried to raise.

of course, convenient to copy raw data that doesn't talk, and put your own ideas over.
what would you do with a tiny 3$ left on an account, and stuck with a min. 0.01lot position size...withdraw for 20$ fee, sure!
what would you do after an IB issue, you withdraw your now withdrawable 40$ by internal transfer, and find your account with about 2.5$ trade only bonus left on it...same 0.01 condition...just delete account, or give it a play.
play it is. the size of the risk unavoidable on tiny accounts, period. that is simple, basic, and everyone should understand it.
also that demo trading is worthless, for multiple reasons.
btw, if looking so much into the account, on thespike TE how many losing trade there since the 16th...after the large DD. of course, all luck only.

but again, please re-read my posts here prior, if you are able, ignore your urge to think in the money lines, and try to understand what I meant to say.
if you do, great.
if you don't, great too.
peace!
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #232
  • Oct 31, 2014 6:05am Oct 31, 2014 6:05am
Quoting AlexCy
{quote} I certainly agree with everything you say. We should all keep our feet firmly on the ground. Realistic optimism is the ideal stance here. Another point I would like to repeat, one I mentioned in an earlier post, is that it's far easier to turn 100 dollars into 200 than it is to turn a million into two million. In the latter case it will be hard to have high leverage, because the other side would be less inclined to assume the risk, etc. I'm just adding this because I suspect one of the reasons people sometimes find incredible the idea that...
Hmm interesting post and I agree that as you get more money dynamics quite possibly do change and yes turning 1million into 2 may be harder..but at that stage who cares!! I have more than doubled my money and for the record I am under $5000 (if that helps). However I work really hard and only trade about 6 pairs really, night and day (and when I can during my day job too) and do my best to be very flexible and trade quite often. I usually trade 2 or so times a day and as mentioned I record entry and exit screen captures with rationales so I can analyze them after. I am a fighter and could be more patient but the amount of times I have been hunting a trade or several and then the time comes and bang just get in, set your SL and TPs and go for it!! Make a loss,,,make it back and keep fighting!! Now I do set up my charts for points of confluence rather than just fire off impulsive trades (although I do have moments but I reduce my contracts right back so I can have 'fun' and satisfy the idiot in me!! LOL)..and most of my trades are good but sometimes I overstay and give up profit! Aim high, prepare and watch like an Owl, execute like an eagle!
  • #233
  • Oct 31, 2014 7:07am Oct 31, 2014 7:07am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} of course you are right! my posts were never about my TE though, nor about my trading. you completely missed the points I tried to raise. of course, convenient to copy raw data that doesn't talk, and put your own ideas over. what would you do with a tiny 3$ left on an account, and stuck with a min. 0.01lot position size...withdraw for 20$ fee, sure! what would you do after an IB issue, you withdraw your now withdrawable 40$ by internal transfer, and find your account with about 2.5$ trade only bonus left on it...same 0.01 condition...just...
I think I do get your point, about mentality and constrictive limitations placed on you by either yourself, or others with "conventional wisdom."

That's all well and good, and i did credit you for your approach, with regard to mindset.

But my point is, all the positive thoughts in the world will not add one single dollar to a trading account. Moreover, an unrealistic approach will most likely cause your trading to suffer.
After all is said and done, we are here to make money right?

The issues you had, and the min lot size on account is fine. I don't have a problem with you playing...but I put it to you that playing this way, is even more useless than demo trading.
Of course it's possible to triple a few dollar account if your minimum lot size forces excessive risk it. My point is, this has no basis in real trading, and tripling this account of a few dollars does not translate into doing the same with $10k.

What I'm trying to emphasize, is a realistic approach. Or as Alex put it, keeping your feet on the ground. Optimism is different from dreaming.
It's a little like a football player sitting in the middle of a pitch, contemplating the possibility of scoring 10 goals, positively willing it to happen, believing it will...all the while not actually getting up and focusing on how best to kick the ball in real game conditions.

You drew my attention to the period since the 16th on the spike challenge TE....sure, congratulations on an excellent win rate. But you are still taking profit at between 1.1 - 12 pips. With the min lot issues you spoke of, of course the gains look massive % of account wise, but on a larger account, would you risk so high for a few pips? Hopefully not, so of course the % gains will not be so interesting.
So I can't see how these results reflect anything in reality?

Ok, I don't know your method. Maybe your edge allows you to take such small profits and win well over time. It's not my experience, but if you can make it work, then I sincerely wish you well.

I know you said your previous posts were not about the money. But you must see how this is a little absurd given we are currency traders. And also, it was you who 1st brought the TE into it, so you must not be surprised that it comes under scrutiny...quote your 1st post i saw here...about losing:

"until recently I have had mixed success with forex, the best being a 5 months run where I reached +1100%...then got most blew up...a common case.
but this isn't the point.
the point is. I was doing great, but never really had a month 100+%, it was gains from compounding month on month.
not long ago - after some sabbatical and another blown up account some time in the past from 400+% in 1 year - I started to trade once again actively.
reached over 100%+ in a month...and then managed to blew it up...AGAIN!

95% equity gone, decided not to give up, and just for the fun of it, give a go for it as it is left...
and something interesting happened...

I passed my some of my limitations, what I believed to be impossible before, suddenly I realized that it might be only my reality in the past that unconsciously held me back. /alternatively I got lucky/.
the thing is, in the past 2 weeks, I managed to trade that equity up from the DD...not quite at the former balance yet...but not far.
one might be curious to know, it is up about 2000% from the point where that DD took me...yes, 2 weeks!
Granted, leverage is high, but no particularly bigger risk I take than ever before. in fact, if anything, the entries seemed to be improved.
the box I were in is expanded...
even if I might lose this account balance again, something wonderful happened. I have learnt that what I took for impossible, it is in fact possible.
it is sort of deliberating!
well, look, on one TE just today is +150%!!"

You are claiming massive % gains in a few weeks....that is all people will see, not the fact that the account has a few dollars in it. That makes ALL the difference.
This approach will only be possible when you don't care what's in your account.
You are focusing on positive attitude which is great, but you are neglecting to mention the huge psychological difference between trading a $100 account compared to a $10k.


I'm not trying to be rude, nor pick on you specifically. My overall grievance is with people throwing around wild % wins, because it is misleading and can do more to damage the confidence of new traders by over inflating their expectations, and experiencing a reality that is very different.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #234
  • Oct 31, 2014 7:21am Oct 31, 2014 7:21am
well, the profit being 1-12 pips....I am a scalper, that is what scalpers do usually.
look, avg. trade duration 17 min...that includes some occasions I stuck with a position for a while...time in trades 4%...

why a small live account is better then demo...simple, the execution is lot more realistic. and picking the right entries just the same, definitely more to it then on the demo, that whatever outcome will happen doesn't matter a wee bit.

credit me, I haven't remove a TE in a deep DD. not only trade it still, but also left it public. Most would quickly click on remove button, even more never dare to post a live trade explorer to start with.

I don't have secret positions, and nothing to hide.
I don't claim to be any sort of guru, and never had.
I did trade 10k+ account, with high gains, and similar approach. Yet I felt till now that I limit myself in ways, after certain gains starting to second guess my entry size, my exit points, etc.
Some of those flows still exist, but lessened maybe, now I remind myself not to try to second guess that often, thus limit myself to be in a box.

It is all, and was all, nothing but certain mindset.
There are literature to read up on this question, suggest you go thru all those Market Wizard books by Schwager....if you need, I have all 3 in pdf format I believe.

ps. you might find pleasing that the UJ trade on will have a larger pip target then usually I go for, reasons on my thread.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #235
  • Oct 31, 2014 8:03am Oct 31, 2014 8:03am
Small account does give you realistic conditions, absolutely agree. But still, being forced into higher than desired risks by min lot size means the results are skewed. You could be margin called at any time in what would normally be a surviving trade with more balance, so it doesn't reflect the real results too much.
Scalping is also fine, I used to do it myself on M1 charts. But in the end, the execution was killing the system that was successful for the 18 months prior. As I'm sure you know, when looking for small pips, gaps/slips/re-quotes can severely damage the results. And they always seem to go against you.

I can credit you for leaving the TE there, but it doesn't change my opinion on it's basis in reality. I find it hard to believe you would ever risk 4% on a single pip on a larger account. But as I say, if you can make it work, more power to you.

Frankly I've never really seen the point in loading TE's here or myfxbook. Some here do it because they are selling something. That's their right. Though personally I take them all with a pinch of salt because I am aware how easy they are to fake for a person with commercial interests. I don't see the need to have one for any other purpose, but if you find value in it, then that's fine.
I record all my trades, and I always analyse them. I frankly don't care what others think, my bottom line is my account balance and no one will help that by looking at my trade results without knowing the method, or discretionary element used to generate it.

Your experience with $10k+ account is exactly the point I was trying to highlight. The difference psychologically when every pip moving for or against you is worth significant money. That emotion in my opinion is never really overcome. However it can be tamed with belief, consistency and discipline. On my larger account I still get itchy when I see certain $ values, both winning and losing. It is always hard to keep control, but it's what we must do.

I have read Schwager, and many others. Napoleon Hill also has one of the pinnacle books on the application of mindset with "Think and Grow Rich." I suggest owning a copy if not already. Another I may recommend that is specific to mindset of wealthy people are "the millionaire mind" & "the millionaire next door" books by Thomas Stanley. It has nothing to do with trading, but certainly gives excellent insights into how those with hard earned accumulated wealth think of money, and how they use it. Food for thought for all who one day seek real wealth i believe.

Positive mindset is absolutely fundamental, no question. But so is an evidence based approach. It's easier to stay positive when the conditions you set yourself are more attainable. You can always build, but if you can't reach goal 1 your enthusiasm will drop.

I saw your newhope trades on UJ. A little brave for a scalp in my opinion. The earlier BOJ announcement of expansion to QE gave me a no trade signal on Yen pairs today.
Yen is too news sensitive and I thought it likely the NY session would add to the move north. As you said on your thread, it is in new territory for a long time, but that makes it more possible to run further to me. And you are even braver adding another position when the 1st was 20 pips underwater! EJ and GJ are starting to show turn signs, but given the expected fundamental increase in value for the USD i would be sweating a little shorting it now. But hopefully it comes back for you.
Wow, I just refreshed...a very brave man...long EU now? Living dangerously for sure
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #236
  • Oct 31, 2014 9:41am Oct 31, 2014 9:41am
Quoting Soros
... MY QUESTION IS, ARE THEY ANY “RAGS TO RICHES” FOREX MILLIONAIRES HERE????

Listen, kid!
Of course there are self made millionaires here. Guess, how they get rich? They get money from people like you. People, who discovered possibilities of Forex, got excited, emotional, put their money on the table and give them to more experienced traders.
Do you realize, that you have to go against all traders? All of them? And you think you can win?
Oh my! Get real. Put your money in the bank and enjoy 0.25701009% annual interest on your deposit. At least you'll keep your money.
  • #237
  • Nov 1, 2014 7:48am Nov 1, 2014 7:48am
Quoting MZen
{quote} Listen, kid! Of course there are self made millionaires here. Guess, how they get rich? They get money from people like you. People, who discovered possibilities of Forex, got excited, emotional, put their money on the table and give them to more experienced traders. Do you realize, that you have to go against all traders? All of them? And you think you can win? Oh my! Get real. Put your money in the bank and enjoy 0.25701009% annual interest on your deposit. At least you'll keep your money.
Hey, i was severe in the past with dreamer attitude of Soros...but you really beat me HANDS DOWN! hahaha
Please give him a chance!
  • #238
  • Nov 1, 2014 3:30pm Nov 1, 2014 3:30pm
all negativity will not get a response from me, you dont exist in my world, my world is full on Optimists, Dreamers, its full of people that shape the future and leave a mark in History.....




TO ALL THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN EAGERLY WAITING FOR THIS JOURNEY!!!!! JOURNEY WILL START WHEN THE MARKETS OPEN, EVERYTHING IS READY AS PROMISED, SO WHEN MARKETS OPEN, A TRADE EXPLORER WILL BE LINKED AND EVERYDAY THERE WILL BE AN UPDATE!!!


thank you for all the support and inboxes, thank you to the people who have kept this thread alive, i would just like to say: GET RICH OR DIE TRYING!
I am what Many Dream to be but only a few can achieve, im a part of the 1%
  • #239
  • Nov 1, 2014 3:35pm Nov 1, 2014 3:35pm
Quoting cariddi74
{quote} Hey, i was severe in the past with dreamer attitude of Soros...but you really beat me HANDS DOWN! hahaha Please give him a chance!
Hows Eitans scientific indicator way of trading working for you?






Good Luck Soros, Im with you!
YOUR MOTHERS ASS
  • #240
  • Nov 1, 2014 3:49pm Nov 1, 2014 3:49pm
Quoting santos23
{quote} Hows Eitans scientific indicator way of trading working for you? Good Luck Soros, Im with you!
....
I am what Many Dream to be but only a few can achieve, im a part of the 1%
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