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Counter-trend trading

  • #261
  • Oct 16, 2014 4:42am Oct 16, 2014 4:42am
Seems like I saw it... What a TZ
  • #262
  • Oct 16, 2014 5:06am Oct 16, 2014 5:06am
Quoting xixi
Seems like I saw it... What a TZ
I think they may say it's a coincidence.

The way I see it MM (and maybe U) are picking up price discrepancies (value versus price) in the same way as UnnamedPlayr showed in his thread.

The hard work (well played MM and U) is calculating the "measure" or "gauge" using an appropriate basket/index/synthetic

Tiered markets and how they operate give rise to U's "price is fake" statement
  • #263
  • Oct 16, 2014 5:13am Oct 16, 2014 5:13am
Ullen, i totally agree with you. As eurusdd says "deception is a big part of this game." The trend could be your worst enemy if you dont know how to make it your friend. Its not as simple as abc. Retail traders wait for support and resistance to trade. Smart money creates support and resistance
  • #264
  • Oct 16, 2014 5:32am Oct 16, 2014 5:32am
clever things are being said at the moment
Not about how much you win, but how much you loose
  • #265
  • Oct 16, 2014 5:51am Oct 16, 2014 5:51am
Quoting ephisi
Ullen, i totally agree with you. As eurusdd says "deception is a big part of this game." The trend could be your worst enemy if you dont know how to make it your friend. Its not as simple as abc. Retail traders wait for support and resistance to trade. Smart money creates support and resistance
Think smart(Dealers,bigboys), not dumb(retail traders).
AS ullen has said. Price action is what they want you to see. Most time price action is fake. When retail traders enter the market, smart money has taken profit and probably reversed the trade
  • #266
  • Oct 16, 2014 6:51am Oct 16, 2014 6:51am
Quoting rich_tee
{quote} I think they may say it's a coincidence. The way I see it MM (and maybe U) are picking up price discrepancies (value versus price) in the same way as UnnamedPlayr showed in his thread. The hard work (well played MM and U) is calculating the "measure" or "gauge" using an appropriate basket/index/synthetic Tiered markets and how they operate give rise to U's "price is fake" statement
we all understood that but what we do after that ?? how we create the synthetic pair so we can see the discrepancies too?
  • #267
  • Oct 16, 2014 7:05am Oct 16, 2014 7:05am
and i start to think that this is the only way of having a true edge the rest it's just bs
  • #268
  • Oct 16, 2014 7:54am Oct 16, 2014 7:54am
Quoting Madmoney
{quote} {quote} Hi MAM and tash, What do you mean by you posts? I would love to know your views. MM
I really do not want to go too much into details and spoil the thread. Ullen doing a good job and I wish everybody excellent trades.
What I was going to say is lately I am reading too many posts about price being fake or wrong, exact points where price must reach or must not reach. behind all these speculations there is a thought that there is someone "up there" watching the market moving the way he wants. somebody or something deceiving the whole world behind the curtains. I wrote somewhere about all these. the simple fact is that no matter how big this person and entity is, it is not possible to turn the things around from its natural course. do manipulations happen? sure. just watch the small example during the news time. especially pay attention to the importance of the news and the weekly or monthly trend. observe how price behaves during the positive and negative data release. You will discover something very important and understand how manipulation work and why so many people confused when price moves opposite way despite good/bad data.
THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND the real meaning of the manipulation.
anything happens in market is real. there is no fake price. you can't tell the exact turning points with 100% certainty. do not be deceived if your prediction is correct. just think how many times your prediction was not correct. What we need to concentrate on is the DIRECTION of the price, not the number.
Also whether you trade with or against the trend, you are always trading with AND against the trend at the same time. Not too difficult to comprehend what i mean by this. As soon as you pick the time frame you split this. it will become with OR against the trend.
As Above, So Below
  • #269
  • Oct 16, 2014 8:05am Oct 16, 2014 8:05am
Quoting tashkent
{quote} anything happens in market is real. there is no fake price.
This is simply not true...
Not about how much you win, but how much you loose
  • #270
  • Oct 16, 2014 8:13am Oct 16, 2014 8:13am
Quoting Ullen
{quote} This is simply not true...
Please give us more detail at least more directions on how to be able to trade like
  • #271
  • Oct 16, 2014 8:14am Oct 16, 2014 8:14am
?how to get the real value of a currency pair???
  • #272
  • Oct 16, 2014 8:14am Oct 16, 2014 8:14am
just telling us how good u and mad money are won't help any of us
  • #273
  • Oct 16, 2014 8:43am Oct 16, 2014 8:43am
why does price move up? because buying volume is higher than selling volume. vice verse if price moves down. another explanation is An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an unbalanced force. An object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.
In other words, rising price will keep rising until it finds seller and price will keep falling until it finds a buyer. It is an eternal ping-pong game. No fakeys, just infinite quest for a balance.
As Above, So Below
  • #274
  • Oct 16, 2014 8:45am Oct 16, 2014 8:45am
Quoting tashkent
why does price move up? because buying volume is higher than selling volume. vice verse if price moves down. another explanation is An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an unbalanced force. An object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. In other words, rising price will keep rising until it finds seller and price will keep falling until it finds a buyer. It is an eternal ping-pong game. No fakeys, just infinite quest for a balance.
Newton applied to trading
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #275
  • Oct 16, 2014 9:11am Oct 16, 2014 9:11am
Quoting tashkent
...... It is an eternal ping-pong game.......
ping pong trading like table tennis.....LOL
  • #276
  • Oct 16, 2014 9:14am Oct 16, 2014 9:14am
Fake or not. What you are actually seeing on the chart are FILLED orders, that's all a chart is. The way I trade is to look for areas on the chart where there are unfilled orders. These are areas where large orders have moved the market. Orders often remain there because price left so fast, all the orders were not filled.

Knowing where there are resting orders and distinguishing these areas from possible stop/liquidity runs puts you in a good position to trade both eventualities. Obviously, markets are pushed by banks and market makers to trigger resting orders that will take the market in the opposite direction, and to trigger stops to sink their orders in without moving the market too quickly against their stack of orders. This I suspect is what the op is calling fake movement. The market is pushed to fill their remaining orders, often for large corporate entities .

If there are already a stack of orders resting at a certain price this makes stop hunts very difficult because the volume of traders charging into it (ie. duped trend traders or not), will be more easily absorbed. This makes it easier for the banks to time their entries into the market with minimal DD and it also allows for front running, be it against stacked orders or new large orders in the market.
  • #277
  • Oct 16, 2014 9:53am Oct 16, 2014 9:53am
Quoting vladutz112
{quote} Please give us more detail at least more directions on how to be able to trade like
You can literally follow the trail of crumbs left from this thread on how to find what he's talking about.

He speaks of determining a mathematical formula to give proper guidance on calculating value to determine whats fake and whats not. (he's not giving that away)
Another person has mentioned some things on finding "true value" and a resource on a more in depth explanation.
A different person spoke of some of the other mechanics behind how the market movers move the market and also gives some insight as to why they might do it.
The only thing i would say that isn't really explained very clearly would be who or what the counter party of these large players would be but then all you have to ask yourself is if you were a one of the biggest or the biggest player, whats the only suitable counter party out there?

All that's left is trial and error.

Click links, read statements, google some ish, read books. You'll gain more from searching and thinking than you will from listening and repeating.
  • #278
  • Oct 16, 2014 10:01am Oct 16, 2014 10:01am
The trend is indeed your enemy... I use a system similar to his for day trades it's done on the 1 minute time frame over 30 mins and check confirmation over an hour... Buy and sell limits are best to use... I only take 10 to 15 pips per trade but I do about 6 trades a day... Do the math..
Peace & Pips
  • #279
  • Edited 10:17am Oct 16, 2014 10:06am | Edited 10:17am
  •  Neio
  • Joined Oct 2012 | Status: Can't think outside?Enlarge the box | 688 Posts
Still experimenting....EJ m5.

Here is an idea for those that want some direction...how about looking at the threads that MM subscribed too?
I am not there yet but working hard like a detective slowly piecing things together.

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An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made
  • #280
  • Oct 16, 2014 10:06am Oct 16, 2014 10:06am
Quoting Good Lookin
{quote} You can literally follow the trail of crumbs left from this thread on how to find what he's talking about. He speaks of determining a mathematical formula to give proper guidance on calculating value to determine whats fake and whats not. (he's not giving that away) Another person has mentioned some things on finding "true value" and a resource on a more in depth explanation. A different person spoke of some of the other mechanics behind how the market movers move the market and also gives some insight as to why they might do it. The only...

i understand all those and i have been searching and at a point up says that determinating the true value you must compare an currency to an basket of currencys so if i would trade eur/usd i could compare it to the eur index because that is formed of a bunch of pairs but after that what i can do cuz i have no idea, and they all give all this sort of explanation but nothing straiaght forward it's like if they will tell, the world of trading will be destroyed wich is not the case i really don't understand why open a thread if u don't share your knowledge maybe they need some sort of validation or to hear how good they are.....who knows....hope u understand my english and thank you everyone who tried to help the others
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