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Preferred Timeframe for Trading

  • #101
  • Sep 27, 2014 11:05am Sep 27, 2014 11:05am
please trade Daily charts going up. find the time frame that's suits you and stick to it.jumping from one time frame to another is the worst thing you can do.
  • #102
  • Sep 27, 2014 11:53am Sep 27, 2014 11:53am
Quoting Relativity
{quote} This is going to be off topic, but I would just say this simply. Thats not how one uses the ZZ indicator. Other than formula coding issues / variances, for most ZZs, the current swing repainting serves 2 purposes. 1-Current swing direction 2-Current swing momentum If it is going to repaint, thats the point. It is for your benefit (lol who doesn't want benefits?) as a ZZ trader. It repaints so that you can follow current momentum and direction, especially in breakout trading. IMO this is also semi related to EURUSDD's work of Transient and...
What if you put on a trade at a bar close, but then on the next bar the ZZ repaints and shows the opposite direction ? What will you do then ?
Close the trade?

Because if it would not repaint then you would not get that fake signals in the first place but only the true signals.

If the ZZ repaints after each bar and shows each time the opposite direction, then how the heck can you tell the difference between the real signal and the fake one?
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #103
  • Edited 9:41pm Sep 27, 2014 9:16pm | Edited 9:41pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} What if you put on a trade at a bar close, but then on the next bar the ZZ repaints and shows the opposite direction ? What will you do then ? Close the trade? Because if it would not repaint then you would not get that fake signals in the first place but only the true signals. If the ZZ repaints after each bar and shows each time the opposite direction, then how the heck can you tell the difference between the real signal and the fake one?
Thats easy to answer. I've said it before thou; read the market states. Get the swing length statistics done. I am sure if you get it done, you will find that the odds are for you and not against you. The proof should be sufficient to convince yourself that you are reading and using ZZs wrongly; I had the same problem when I was using ZZs initially.

You cannot assume and are still assuming that every ZZ extreme repaint (both current swing and previous swings) is a signal to trade the opposite direction. Its statistically 95% never the case. Therefore one is better off following the flow instead. ZZ legs do 'grow'; let them. Why fight a flow that is flowing for you 95% of the time? The only question left from here is how much off the 95% it will continue length wise? Isn't that way more easier to answer than just banging your head and pips against a wall and fail trying to reverse trade at every single ZZ extreme repaint at bar close (no offense! but sorry!)?

95% is a huge huge edge. EURUSDD's work has proven it. I've checked it personally myself and his logic makes sense, because I get the same statistic from my work as well; 95%.
  • #104
  • Sep 27, 2014 9:21pm Sep 27, 2014 9:21pm
Quoting ericnyamu
please trade Daily charts going up. find the time frame that's suits you and stick to it.jumping from one time frame to another is the worst thing you can do.
Why only the ones that are going up? What's wrong with the ones that are going down or the ones that are like headless chickens?
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #105
  • Sep 27, 2014 10:26pm Sep 27, 2014 10:26pm
Quoting Relativity
{quote} Thats easy to answer. I've said it before thou; read the market states. Get the swing length statistics done. I am sure if you get it done, you will find that the odds are for you and not against you. The proof should be sufficient to convince yourself that you are reading and using ZZs wrongly; I had the same problem when I was using ZZs initially. You cannot assume and are still assuming that every ZZ extreme repaint (both current swing and previous swings) is a signal to trade the opposite direction. Its statistically 95% never the case....
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...79#post7766379
  • #106
  • Sep 28, 2014 6:55am Sep 28, 2014 6:55am
trade higher time frames. pick a time frames that you are comfortable with a stick to it.
  • #107
  • Sep 28, 2014 11:35pm Sep 28, 2014 11:35pm
Quoting ericnyamu
please trade Daily charts going up. find the time frame that's suits you and stick to it.jumping from one time frame to another is the worst thing you can do.
Quoting ericnyamu
trade higher time frames. pick a time frames that you are comfortable with a stick to it.
Really? As Chicky said...why only going up. Going to be a bit bored when it's going down...(or get quite expensive).

You also say trade higher TF, but choose one's you're comfortable with? Which is it? If I'm happy with 15m, should I change to 4h?

Lastly, I might put on trades that suit depending on mood. So if I feel like sitting and watching screens, 5-15m. If I'm looking for a longer trade, perhaps I might use 4h-1w.


Use whatever TF suits you when you see price action and indication that it looks like a good trade. I would suggest checking TF's above and below (at least) for validation of trend and recent retracements, but use what you like, when you like. Epecially if it's working for you.
  • #108
  • Sep 29, 2014 1:50am Sep 29, 2014 1:50am
working graphic - H1, H4 and D1 to find a trend
  • #109
  • Sep 30, 2014 1:41am Sep 30, 2014 1:41am
Quoting Relativity
{quote} Thats easy to answer. I've said it before thou; read the market states. Get the swing length statistics done. I am sure if you get it done, you will find that the odds are for you and not against you. The proof should be sufficient to convince yourself that you are reading and using ZZs wrongly; I had the same problem when I was using ZZs initially. You cannot assume and are still assuming that every ZZ extreme repaint (both current swing and previous swings) is a signal to trade the opposite direction. Its statistically 95% never the case....
I`ve done the statistics and on short term they dont work.I dont know on what time interval you trade but, i`ve modified the fractals indicators so that the repaint was removed, and from a 5-20 period there was certainly no edge. (On any TF)

I didnt looked at higher periods because the whole method looked silly to me as a first impression, but whatever.

If you have a 95% accuracy (with proper RR not "1 pipper systems") then you would be a billionaire by now, i dont know what are you talking about here but i have the impression that you dont know it either.Something seems fishy about your claims.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #110
  • Sep 30, 2014 3:12am Sep 30, 2014 3:12am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} I`ve done the statistics and on short term they dont work.I dont know on what time interval you trade but, i`ve modified the fractals indicators so that the repaint was removed, and from a 5-20 period there was certainly no edge. (On any TF) I didnt looked at higher periods because the whole method looked silly to me as a first impression, but whatever. If you have a 95% accuracy (with proper RR not "1 pipper systems") then you would be a billionaire by now, i dont know what are you talking about here but i have the impression that you dont...
Pardon me but I do know exactly what I am talking about. There's nothing fishy about the claim. That's also why I said 'The only question left from here is how much off the 95% it will continue length wise?' You can be surprised that '1 pipper systems' can actually act as proper triggers as a good start, with a basic edge of 80%.

IMO fractals indicator has a flaw... I am not going to explain it here as it is way out of topic. Yes the whole method looks silly even to me in the first place as well. You aren't testing it out correctly as far as I see it seems. As a start, the fractals indicator is not a ZZ indicator or its variant.

Going off topic IMO. I will not discuss further in public, but I am always open for Skype chat sessions, if you are open to the idea of course.
  • #111
  • Sep 30, 2014 11:26am Sep 30, 2014 11:26am
Quoting Proximus
Its funny that you accuse me of not respecting your own view about your own thinking that you dont have a preferred timeframe, when you yourself in the previous post stated that there "are not preferred timeframes" implying that nobody else has.
No one has accused you of anything, other than not being able to read or remain on topic with your own OP. You asked the question and then you altered that same question with a response that clearly demonstrated you were arguing against yourself. I said Time itself was an illusion. I use "Time" in many of my posts because other Traders use it. My four fundamentals for any successful trade include "Time" as a key element. That's used to explain my methods to others, not because I "believe" that "Time" is real.

if you want to have a discussion in Physics and Mathematics about whether or not "Time" exists, I am more than happy to transform this thread into a detailed mathematical discussion of the same. Let me know.


Quoting Proximus
It is true that this thread analyses the individual subjective experiences of every trader about the timeframes in general, so to an individual to speak for everyone shows only ignorance.
Then ignorance is what the OP has shown in this thread, because you turn around and conclude that "everyone has a preferred time frame." You should spend more time checking the inverse of your logic as it has more holes than a slice of Swiss cheese. You are the very same individual who just spoke for all others by declaring that "everyone has a preferred time frame," which is completely false. So, not only do you speak for others, you don't even get the facts straight when you do.


Quoting Proximus
I only said that there are some sort of time intervals that everybody uses, because thats up for each individual to find out for himself what suits him the best.
Changing the premise again. That seems like your MO. You clearly said: "Everybody has a preferred time frame." What other definition can one give to such a statement. It means what it says: "Everybody has a preferred time frame." That statement in and of itself is patently false. I trade without respect to "favoring" any particular "time frame," whatsoever. Yet, I trade while analyzing all relevant time frames with respect to my methods.


Quoting Proximus
For some reason than other H1,H4,D1 are the preferred timeframes, its a fact, look at the poll.
Regardless, of what the poll might say, it does not change or alter the fact that when you slice so-called "Time" to absolute zero, you are left with Absolute Zero. How do you account for that? Or, do you even understand the implications? "Time," is the overlay that humanity injected into the universe in order to make some sense out of that which made no sense.

Theoretically, you can extend "Time" in multiple dimensions instead of just two. Example: S4 + X1 + X2 + X3 + X4. That represents a four dimensional time. From M-Theory, to F-Theory to the Ultrahyperbolic Equation, I fathom that what's actually being discovered, whether a dimensional time equation, or a deterministic hybrid hypersurface where there appears to be multiple dimensions of time, are in actuality, multiple (yet misunderstood) dimensions of Space just under the surface of our known Universe. In other words, I think there a lot more to Special Relativity than meets the eye, literally.

In a three dimensional framework you don't need "Time" to travel from P1 to P2. Likewise, in a two dimensional framework, a Trader does not need "Time" to get price from Level X to Level X+N. What the Trader needs is Movement. That is not dependent on "Time." That is dependent on Magnitude.

You seem to be attempting to discuss subject matter for which you have little to know complete understand of the mathematical nature of what you speak. Everything you say, can be derived mathematically. If it cannot, then it makes no damn sense in a world completely dependent on mathematics to describe it.

I am saying that when T ~ 0, in any equation involving Spacetime, you end up with Space and no Time. However, you do not end up with an absence in the ability to move through Spacetime and all you need to do so, is a scalable (scalar) vector space structure. Experiments have already been done that involved the transportation of subatomic particles from P1 to P2 without involving "Time" as you think you know it.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #112
  • Sep 30, 2014 11:36am Sep 30, 2014 11:36am
Your preferred time frame should be defined by your preferred stop loss.

If you trade using 100 pip stops you might want to trade the dailys.

If you tend to use 10 pip stops you might want to trade the 5 min.

If you use a 10 pip stop and pull them back to say 25 then you might want to think about going to a 30/1hr.

In all reality you should be looking at most of them and adjusting your position size based on your stop. But I think the above is good for newbs that tend to use the same lot size over and over, its all about what your comfortable losing.
  • #113
  • Sep 30, 2014 11:50am Sep 30, 2014 11:50am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} I wanted to say wavelength but it does also apply to the amplitude.Basically the oscillator type indicators are the worst ones, while the others are less bad: On lower TF the wavelength is short and the amplitude also, that is that the frequency is faster, so more signals *cough* more bad signals: {image} On high TF the wavelength is much longer, while the amplitude is larger and steadier, thus less frequency, less bad signals {image} But those ratios, no matter if i turn my monitor upside down ,are not identical. That is the frequency of...

Maybe you should stop relying on MACD and traditional indicators and start developing your own unique indicators that actually help you see into short range future events.

Time Frame traded does not matter. Only Magnitude matters - Vector Analysis of the correct market components reveals pending market movements a very high percentage of the time:
http://i60.tinypic.com/25ge2ar.jpg

That's one (1) indicator. One out of 117 that I use to pick the market apart almost every single day. With this one indicator called TCDi7, I can see major moves over a 24 hr cycle from an M1 chart. The indicator's characteristics you cannot argue with. You cannot change the subject when looking at this picture to make it mean what you want it to mean because you do not like it. This picture speaks at least a thousand words. The behavior of the market was classic. While others were waiting to get in to the downside, this indicator was offering an Early Warning that a downside move was imminent. After that downside move was over, this indicator yet again offered an Early Warning that an upside move was imminent - all while most Traders were still trying to figure out which way way UP or DOWN.

None of this was based on some "Preferred Time Frame." This movement could happen at ANY time and THAT is the point that you seem to miss.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #114
  • Sep 30, 2014 12:05pm Sep 30, 2014 12:05pm
Inside the circle contains a wealth of information about the state of the market and the expected movement of the market before it happens:
http://i57.tinypic.com/2myuesp.jpg

Vector analysis of the important characteristics of the market reveals quite a bit. All of the downside move takes place in just over 6 hours, leading into the reversal to the upside which took less than 3 hours to transform. What "Time Frame" would have been "Preferred" in order to see this kind of market behavior coming? According to your rules, Proximus, it would have to be the 1 Minute Time Frame. Yet, how did the 1 Minute Time Frame poll? Not well.

So, what does that tell you about the average Trader, Proximus?
Inserted Video


"You must unlearn what you have learned. ['alright, I'll give it a try'] No. Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try."
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #115
  • Sep 30, 2014 12:20pm Sep 30, 2014 12:20pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} I`ve done the statistics and on short term they dont work.I dont know on what time interval you trade but, i`ve modified the fractals indicators so that the repaint was removed, and from a 5-20 period there was certainly no edge. (On any TF) I didnt looked at higher periods because the whole method looked silly to me as a first impression, but whatever. If you have a 95% accuracy (with proper RR not "1 pipper systems") then you would be a billionaire by now, i dont know what are you talking about here but i have the impression that you dont...

Hi there,

Just to say, it is possible to use even standard fractals.
Try calculating the probability that the fractal on H1 formed two hours ago and not taken out (so confirmed not to repaint) will be taken out within the following 12 hours. If you do this, you'll see that this probability is only cca 30%. It's not a fantastic edge, but it can be used as a beginning of a non-ambitious little strategy.

Cheers,
k
  • #116
  • Sep 30, 2014 12:57pm Sep 30, 2014 12:57pm
Quoting Proximus
Well guys according to the current state of the poll there is a very strong bias towards H4 timeframe (which was expected): {image} But i find it strange that nobody used renko charts still.Well, anyway H1 and D1 as neighboring TF's are also popular, interesting.
Check post #74. I use renko for my entry charts and my midrange supt and resistance/waves of movement. I find it strange that so many people only view one time frame when trading.
  • #117
  • Edited 4:54pm Sep 30, 2014 1:09pm | Edited 4:54pm
My preferred time frame is "All of them".

However, I particularly like 1 min, 30 min, and 4 hour.

3 minute charts are great too!
Please check out my blog at https://from-zero-to-hero . net
  • #118
  • Edited 4:52pm Sep 30, 2014 1:17pm | Edited 4:52pm
As far as indicators go, they all have a use and purpose in trading. Even the lagging ones!

It's just that most people are stupid and don't care or won't bother (perhaps because they already think they know it all) to understand 1) WHY they are used, 2) HOW they are used, 3) and most importantly, WHEN they are used.

I use 3 of the most basic indicators in my trading and anyone who is semi-smart can find out what they are through my history.

I also use one proprietary indicator that I wrote to help me determine relative strength and what is trending at the time. However, I don't really need this indicator in my trading, I just like it, but I could trade just as successfully without it and my 3 basic indicators.

Proximus, I remember just about a year ago you were certain you could develop the holy grail EA. Are you still working on that? lol
Please check out my blog at https://from-zero-to-hero . net
  • #119
  • Edited 4:44pm Sep 30, 2014 4:11pm | Edited 4:44pm
Quoting Relativity
{quote} Pardon me but I do know exactly what I am talking about. There's nothing fishy about the claim. That's also why I said 'The only question left from here is how much off the 95% it will continue length wise?' You can be surprised that '1 pipper systems' can actually act as proper triggers as a good start, with a basic edge of 80%. IMO fractals indicator has a flaw... I am not going to explain it here as it is way out of topic. Yes the whole method looks silly even to me in the first place as well. You aren't testing it out correctly as far...


So, the problem with your methodology, if you didnt realized it so far, is that you are already looking at the end result when using repainting indicators, so the statistics is flawed.I cant explain it more than this, let me give you a metaphor:

It is like if you try to predict the next week's lottery numbers 1 minute after the draws happened.Obviously your percentage of accuracy will be >99%.

A repainting indicator, in offline mode is exactly as the example above. When in real time, inbetween real signals you see many many fake signals, which your obviously dont get after if you look at the end results.

But you will trade in real time so, obviously your trade results will depend on those fake signals aswell, since you cant distinguish between the real and the fake in live time, only after it happened.

I can 100% predict any lottery drawings 1 minute after it happened

My modified factal indicator laggs only 1 bar, and its non repainting.The ZZ is based on the fractal indicators.

Here is my fractal indicator
http://www.mediafire.com/download/28.../FRACTALSX.mq4

Play with it, now that its non repainting and see how accurate is now you will find that its not really that good.

Sorry this was really offtopic, but if you dont believe me open thread and lets discuss this more deeply, because the repainting is a great illusion.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #120
  • Edited 4:56pm Sep 30, 2014 4:33pm | Edited 4:56pm
Quoting iDoubleStoch
{quote} No one has accused you of anything, other than not being able to read or remain on topic with your own OP...
1) Time in the markets is important and real.Wheather time itself is real is a philosophical question.

2) So either there is a preferred TF or there isnt, its just simple as that.I say there is you say there isnt.So far you didnt gave any more evidence than i did in my posts troughout the forum, so if we would want to be fair then we could say that both of us havent proved anything, yet one of us must be right because this is a YES/NO question.

By preferred i only care about the subjective view of the traders, i`m not into arguing here philosophical question about what TF are and the stream of the prices, etc. I`m only interested what TF traders use, their favorite = preferred one.Preferred only means favorite, so i dont understand whats the big deal here.

You basically say that by a preferred TF not existing, that traders dont have a preferred TF, which is clearly a fallacy. Human preferance/ favor is a psychological phenomenon, humans tend to distinguish things, objectify, separate, and analyze, while maintaining a huge subjective bias in the time.

If you give X chocolate to a kid and Y chololate, he will clearly tell you which one tasted better, therefore he has a preferred chocolate.
So if a trader see's 10 TF in their platform, who is there to say that they wont have a preferred one after trading a while ?

Besides the bias in the poll clearly demonstrates, that the H4 is the preferred one, if there would be no preferred TF, then all TF would have equal amounts of votes!

Ok i didnt included the "no preferred TF" option in the poll, because i found it irrelevant, i`m only looking at people who have a preferred TF, and which one is that one.
If i were to analyze the % of traders who have and who dont have a preferred TF, would be a different study, but clearly it has nothing to do with this poll.This poll only analyzes the logically positive answer, and so far it did a good job determining the H4 TF.

Quote
Regardless, of what the poll might say, it does not change or alter the fact that when you slice so-called "Time" to absolute zero, you are left with Absolute Zero. How do you account for that?



You are clearly confusing TIMEFRAME with TIME DURATION. They are not equivalent, or atleast in FOREX lingo its not.

Sorry if it was ambiguous, but TIMEFRAME in FX lingo means only the price action structure in that particular time grouping (priceflow grouped by X number of candles)

Mathematically would be a function: PRICEACTION ( PERIOD ) where the priceaction function which is a 2D array PRICE*TIME, grouped by X numbers of candlesticks.The PERIOD ,the nr of bars is only a parameter.

So clearly you are confusing the word TIME which is only an element of the PRICACTION =PRICE * TIME , while the TIMEFRAME itself is a compressed illustration of the total PRICEACTION.

The fully PRICEACTION is the tick chart. But for obvious reasons different types of traders need different charts, so thats why the TIMEFRAMES compresses the full PRICEACTION to suit the needs of different traders.

A Timeframe chart is only a compressed format of the tick chart.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
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