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Preferred Timeframe for Trading

  • #81
  • Sep 23, 2014 2:17pm Sep 23, 2014 2:17pm
you made it sound like each TF are quite different from the other, which is quite misleading.

what you describe is actually the difference between 1 minute, 15 minute, daily, and month

of coz, 1 minute is fast come and gone, like crazy;
and month is a long waiting.

but the market and price movement share same fundamental fractal shape, at any given time point, the price is at a buy/sell balance, now, 1 minute later or 1 day later, the path of the price will have any different characteristics? of coz NOT!

if you care to look, there are awesome traders on FF doing M1 tf trading with low DD, btw. and the real trading logic is never about stupid timeframe.



Quoting Nefser
TF's should be chosen that match your personality, general mood, appetite for stress, attitude toward volatility and belief of price action 'consistency' in the chosen TF. TF Breakdown: 1m is gambling, random chance, fun loving, cocaine fueled...
  • #82
  • Sep 23, 2014 3:29pm Sep 23, 2014 3:29pm
Quoting Proximus
But i find it strange that nobody used renko charts still.
I've redone my analysis of FF content, and I've included non-MT4 TFs like M2, M3, H8, Kagi or Renko. As expected, pretty much everybody uses MT4, since non-MT4 timeframes like H8 are almost unused. Renko however is pretty popular, almost as used as M30.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...forum_tf_2.png
  • #83
  • Sep 23, 2014 3:40pm Sep 23, 2014 3:40pm
Quoting Adal
{quote} I've redone my analysis of FF content, and I've included non-MT4 TFs like M2, M3, H8, Kagi or Renko. As expected, pretty much everybody uses MT4, since non-MT4 timeframes like H8 are almost unused. Renko however is pretty popular, almost as used as M30. {image}
Wow thanks for sharing your research, but i still think the word " day" is just too much used because of the language ,and does not necessarly imply the timeframe.

Just hit CTRL+F and see how many times the word "day" has been used just in this page. Its 5 + 5 because of this post.

It is just a very common word i think and does not necessarly tell much about the timeframe's usage

EDIT : i think if you want a more accurate analysis, then search only for terms like 'D1' , '1D' , '1 DAY' ,M15,M1,M5, etc... Because this abbreviations have a better correlation with the TF than the word 'day' which can just refer to the trading day, daily spread, and any other misc stuff.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #84
  • Sep 23, 2014 5:07pm Sep 23, 2014 5:07pm
I have updated the graph as you requested, counting only "D1" and not counting "daily". But this is underrepresented, nobody says "I trade D1". All I've seen say "I trade the daily chart".

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...forum_tf_3.png
  • #85
  • Sep 23, 2014 5:45pm Sep 23, 2014 5:45pm
Quoting Adal
I have updated the graph as you requested, counting only "D1" and not counting "daily". But this is underrepresented, nobody says "I trade D1". All I've seen say "I trade the daily chart". {image}
This one is actually more accurate, and more correlated with my poll.Thanks.

Quote
But this is underrepresented, nobody says "I trade D1". All I've seen say "I trade the daily chart".

Of course not , but not in that phrase is the most common, but when you search in the interactive trading section (wich i presume you did), somebody would post a chart and say: "bla bla Stochastic at 67 on D1 chart time to short" OR "My D1 pivot points are showing a bearish trend", besides the phrase "D1" or "1D" can only and only represent the timeframe, and could not have other meanings, while the phrase "Daily" can have millions of other meanings.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #86
  • Sep 24, 2014 2:53pm Sep 24, 2014 2:53pm
I found an article on dailyfx:

http://www.dailyfx.com/forex/educati...f_Trading.html

I dont know how many of you read it, but it seems like here aswell the M15,H1,H4,D1,W1 are mentioned to be the "best" ones.

It could be a self fulfulling prophecy,as on every forum you look, these timeframes will probably be the most mentioned, so by default new traders will use these.

OR

Every trader with experience, finds these to be the best ones, and will use them from experience.

I think its the first one, as the "herd effect" is stronger in any FX community than individual research and market analysis.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #87
  • Sep 24, 2014 3:12pm Sep 24, 2014 3:12pm
There are no preferred time frames to trade, only preferred probabilities to trade based on revenue expectations. Trades without high probability even triggers are deposits in a bank that pays no interest, subjects the depositor to usury fees and the risk of bank closure without deposit insurance. A probability in itself is not enough, but the density of probability affords risk mitigation (first) and increases target accuracy (second). MAE/MFE analysis of the signal is the first step in probability optimization (locating density probability) for entry, exit and hold decisions.

"Time," is only relevant to the Revenue Model used to project and track capital growth progress. Though there are "Times" of day where volatility increases, volatility should not be confused with the vector quality of the market, as that can only be determined through vector analysis. The vector of the market will contain both Magnitude and Direction, which is essential to reaching expected MFE levels, while mere volatility during a specific "Time" of day will not. Movement in the market is essential, but it must be coupled to something "akin" or "like" a vector space in two dimensions in order to mitigate risk and optimize potential.

Thus, the location of price within such a "tailored" vectored space is far more important than the "Time" in which that event takes place. Ergo, there are no preferred time frames to trade, only preferred probabilities to trade based on revenue expectations. Tie the right vectors together and probability increases.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #88
  • Sep 24, 2014 3:46pm Sep 24, 2014 3:46pm
<p>[quote=iDoubleStoch;7760054]There are no preferred time frames to trade,

sage advice thanx double ;-)
There has never been a statue erected in honor of a critic
  • #89
  • Sep 25, 2014 12:16am Sep 25, 2014 12:16am
[quote=pip.monkey;7760112]<p>
Quoting iDoubleStoch
There are no preferred time frames to trade, sage advice thanx double ;-)
Thats nonsense.Everyone has a preferred timeframe, i agree that there is no objective one (if not the collective aggregate of prefferred subjective ones), but as subjectives ones the majority still tends towards H4->D1 ranges

At this point it has became a fact, not just a wild guess, so there are subjective preferred timeframes indeed.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #90
  • Sep 25, 2014 1:00am Sep 25, 2014 1:00am
Quoting Proximus
Thats nonsense.Everyone has a preferred timeframe, i agree that there is no objective one (if not the collective aggregate of prefferred subjective ones), but as subjectives ones the majority still tends towards H4->D1 ranges At this point it has became a fact, not just a wild guess, so there are subjective preferred timeframes indeed.
I have no preferred timeframe as well. How much liquidity and volatility the instrument can provide me, depending on my revenue goals comes 1st. There has to be lively price movement 1st, then I would talk about 'time'.

I acknowledge the usefulness of using 'time frames' e.g. M15 x 96 or H1 x 24 = D1 boxes thou, as a reference. I can't say that I trade it.

Therefore the fact doesn't quite apply in my context I suppose. Technically, I use range bars, but I am so not tempted to pick 'Renko' in the poll.
  • #91
  • Sep 26, 2014 9:47pm Sep 26, 2014 9:47pm
Quoting Relativity
{quote} I have no preferred timeframe as well. How much liquidity and volatility the instrument can provide me, depending on my revenue goals comes 1st. There has to be lively price movement 1st, then I would talk about 'time'. I acknowledge the usefulness of using 'time frames' e.g. M15 x 96 or H1 x 24 = D1 boxes thou, as a reference. I can't say that I trade it. Therefore the fact doesn't quite apply in my context I suppose. Technically, I use range bars, but I am so not tempted to pick 'Renko' in the poll.
What about indicators?

A MACD 12,26,9 on M5 is surely not identical to a MACD 12,26,9 on M15.

The market can be of fractal nature but definitely its amplitude is not symmetrical on all timeframes.So by using indicators at an X preferred timeframe can definitely define the accuracy of that indicators.

Now i dont use retail indicators, i use my own, but many of you guys do use them so dont you guys find this an interesting point ? So saying that TF doesnt count is not so true anymore isnt it?
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #92
  • Sep 26, 2014 10:09pm Sep 26, 2014 10:09pm
Quoting Proximus
Thats nonsense.Everyone has a preferred timeframe,
Changing the question in midstream and then arguing a different proposition is the very definition of nonsense. I trade the markets. I have no preferred time frame. Thus, your conclusion is nonsense. In order for your conclusion not to be nonsense, I would have to have a preferred time frame. So, your premise argues against itself, which is irrational by definition.


Quoting Proximus
i agree that there is no objective one (if not the collective aggregate of prefferred subjective ones), but as subjectives ones the majority still tends towards H4->D1 ranges At this point it has became a fact, not just a wild guess, so there are subjective preferred timeframes indeed.
The majority is not everyone which itself invalidates the question without need for elaboration. 0500hrs on the West Coast of the United States is not 0500hrs on the East Coast of Japan. For that matter, it is not even the same day as far as many markets are concerned. Time itself is an illusion. Incrementally reduce Time to zero instance and both matter and space still exist. The extant nature of Time is assumed along with its instantiation. What does the Kepler space probe know of Time - absolutely nothing. Its power supply does not run out of Time, it depletes its Energy supply, which is matter that can be converted to power its electrical systems.

You've got the concept of Time all twisted in knots. What matters is movement. In space, it is three dimensional - on a chart its two dimensional, but it is movement nonetheless that settles the matter, finally.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #93
  • Sep 26, 2014 10:50pm Sep 26, 2014 10:50pm
Quoting iDoubleStoch
{quote} Changing the question in midstream and then arguing a different proposition is the very definition of nonsense. I trade the markets. I have no preferred time frame. Thus, your conclusion is nonsense. In order for your conclusion not to be nonsense, I would have to have a preferred time frame. So, your premise argues against itself, which is irrational by definition. {quote} The majority is not everyone which itself invalidates the question without need for elaboration. 0500hrs on the West Coast of the United States is not 0500hrs on the...
Its funny that you accuse me of not respecting your own view about your own thinking that you dont have a preferred timeframe, when you yourself in the previous post stated that there "are not preferred timeframes" implying that nobody else has.

It is true that this thread analyses the individual subjective experiences of every trader about the timeframes in general, so to an individual to speak for everyone shows only ignorance.

I only said that there are some sort of time intervals that everybody uses, because thats up for each individual to find out for himself what suits him the best.
For some reason than other H1,H4,D1 are the preferred timeframes, its a fact, look at the poll.

Also your other argument about motion is also invalid, the chart is a PRICE X TIME chart, and its 2 dimensional, so both the movement of the price as the time's are important, it cant exist without eachother, as the present Bid/Ask price doesnt contain information.The movement in the PRICE X TIME dimension is called price-flow by the traders, that is the flow of price in time, in some time intervals its more intense, while in others its slow and steady.

All traders are trading the price flow weather they know it or not, because the price of entry will always differ from the price of exit, so the interval while your trade is on, is a segment of the total market's price-flow dimension.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #94
  • Sep 26, 2014 10:55pm Sep 26, 2014 10:55pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} What about indicators? A MACD 12,26,9 on M5 is surely not identical to a MACD 12,26,9 on M15. The market can be of fractal nature but definitely its amplitude is not symmetrical on all timeframes.So by using indicators at an X preferred timeframe can definitely define the accuracy of that indicators. Now i dont use retail indicators, i use my own, but many of you guys do use them so dont you guys find this an interesting point ? So saying that TF doesnt count is not so true anymore isnt it?
I am not sure what kind of indicators you really use. I also cannot comment on MACD as I don't use it. However, I make my own swing indicators and I found that the key swing to swing ratios remain the same regardless of which chart I use;

'Standard' M1 time based chart
'Standard' D1 time based chart
Custom D3 time based chart
Fixed range bars
Dynamic range bars
..etc (after so much testing)

Thats when I put my hands up in the air =)
  • #95
  • Sep 26, 2014 11:05pm Sep 26, 2014 11:05pm
Quoting Relativity
{quote} I am not sure what kind of indicators you really use. I also cannot comment on MACD as I don't use it. However, I make my own swing indicators and I found that the key swing to swing ratios remain the same regardless of which chart I use; 'Standard' M1 time based chart 'Standard' D1 time based chart Custom D3 time based chart Fixed range bars Dynamic range bars ..etc (after so much testing) Thats when I put my hands up in the air =)
I wanted to say wavelength but it does also apply to the amplitude.Basically the oscillator type indicators are the worst ones, while the others are less bad:

On lower TF the wavelength is short and the amplitude also, that is that the frequency is faster, so more signals *cough* more bad signals:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDM15.png Size: 38 KB


On high TF the wavelength is much longer, while the amplitude is larger and steadier, thus less frequency, less bad signals

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDH4.png Size: 34 KB


But those ratios, no matter if i turn my monitor upside down ,are not identical.

That is the frequency of indicators with same parameters differ very much as you change the TF.I dont know how its not obvious to you.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #96
  • Sep 26, 2014 11:36pm Sep 26, 2014 11:36pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} I wanted to say wavelength but it does also apply to the amplitude.Basically the oscillator type indicators are the worst ones, while the others are less bad: On lower TF the wavelength is short and the amplitude also, that is that the frequency is faster, so more signals *cough* more bad signals: {image} On high TF the wavelength is much longer, while the amplitude is larger and steadier, thus less frequency, less bad signals {image} But those ratios, no matter if i turn my monitor upside down ,are not identical. That is the frequency of...
I am not talking about those at all. I am also not talking about signals as well. I acknowledge your attempt but thats not how I measure things as a ZZ trader. Thats also why I said I cannot comment on MACD, but only comment from a swing trader's perspective.
  • #97
  • Sep 27, 2014 12:28am Sep 27, 2014 12:28am
Quoting Relativity
{quote} I am not talking about those at all. I am also not talking about signals as well. I acknowledge your attempt but thats not how I measure things as a ZZ trader. Thats also why I said I cannot comment on MACD, but only comment from a swing trader's perspective.
The ZZ indicator repaints, thats like cheating yourself, because the problem doesnt get resolved, you only pretend that its not there as your indicator will return you fake signals.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #98
  • Edited 2:05am Sep 27, 2014 1:51am | Edited 2:05am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} The ZZ indicator repaints, thats like cheating yourself, because the problem doesnt get resolved, you only pretend that its not there as your indicator will return you fake signals.
This is going to be off topic, but I would just say this simply.

Thats not how one uses the ZZ indicator.

Other than formula coding issues / variances, for most ZZs, the current swing repainting serves 2 purposes.
1-Current swing direction
2-Current swing momentum

If it is going to repaint, thats the point. It is for your benefit (lol who doesn't want benefits?) as a ZZ trader. It repaints so that you can follow current momentum and direction, especially in breakout trading. IMO this is also semi related to EURUSDD's work of Transient and Recurrent Zones, and I fully respect his work and findings.

Thats also why one doesn't just check the current swing, but the previous swing or even the previous 2-4 swings for context.

That leads up to everything else; swing ratios, market states...etc. You can read my lab thread if you want to get some idea.
  • #99
  • Sep 27, 2014 6:07am Sep 27, 2014 6:07am
Quoting Relativity
{quote} This is going to be off topic, but I would just say this simply. Thats not how one uses the ZZ indicator. Other than formula coding issues / variances, for most ZZs, the current swing repainting serves 2 purposes. 1-Current swing direction 2-Current swing momentum If it is going to repaint, thats the point. It is for your benefit (lol who doesn't want benefits?) as a ZZ trader. It repaints so that you can follow current momentum and direction, especially in breakout trading. IMO this is also semi related to EURUSDD's work of Transient and...
I use ZZ and have been using them for years. You are right they are best used in the context of continuation moves, not reversals.
  • #100
  • Sep 27, 2014 6:13am Sep 27, 2014 6:13am
i take my trades at day open and i update them every 4 hours i take them at asian open market and then take profit at europe market and reenter and get out at usa marekt
i post them in twitter oan4x and skype orabiabdullah1
all have a nice day
focus while relaxed to see better
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