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How to start like a pro? - afraid to open trades

  • #21
  • Sep 24, 2014 6:07am Sep 24, 2014 6:07am
Quoting hamedmohd
{quote} i like your idea i have a live account with 50$ on it i will try with them as you say nothing to lose
No, there IS something to lose...which should help to motivate you NOT to lose it. ;-)

Good trading.
  • #22
  • Sep 24, 2014 9:16am Sep 24, 2014 9:16am
Quoting Gareth22
{quote} Most traders probably fail due to over trading, in which case they can't be struggling with fear. I agree if you over trade, one should focus more on risk. If you are scared to trade, you are already too focused on what you can lose hence the purpose of this thread?


It's a way to resolve a huge cognitive dissonance. .
  • #23
  • Sep 24, 2014 3:36pm Sep 24, 2014 3:36pm
Quoting Nefser
{quote} No, there IS something to lose...which should help to motivate you NOT to lose it. ;-) Good trading.
start trading

will increase the account fund to make it more motivated
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  • #24
  • Sep 30, 2014 1:39pm Sep 30, 2014 1:39pm
as already said, you can't avoid losing the minimum you could lose in order to trade.
to trade, you must open a position and pay the spread (in some cases swaps and commissions): there's a loss.
then you can lose another minimum by trading 0.01 sizes.
to heal your fear trade the minimum!!!
then you'll get more comfortable (it's not a time-line, like after one month, after one year, etc), after a number of trades, and you'll be able to increase your size.
i'm answering directly to your question, of how to conquer your fears of losing not of what's profitable in terms of size, leverage, s/l, etc.
most people, from beginners to experienced traders, when start losing they are usually losing their head.
that means that even if you have one month behind you, let's say by only demo-trading, you kind of know something about the market, you have some sort of understanding which you'll equate as being an edge. you see that edge and even if you'll find after that it wasn't great, you still operate on integrating and internalizing that psychological edge and that's all you got - and that perception of yourself makes you a trader.
what i mean is that if you fear yourself it usually indicates that you're self-inflicting yourself. it's a signal you get that you might be blowing up your account pretty soon. that you're self-sabotaging what you know, trying to do smth else.
what you trade is what you know. you don't trade emotions, fears, etc.
review what you know. set firm guidelines and follow them.
if you are trully a beginner, this is my advice.
1) beginners tend to lose mainly because of overleveraging.
2) they (like mostly everyone) aren't there only for money, they are also in this game to prove how smart they are (that's a self-defeating mechanism). the market will show you perpetually that you are a fool (plus exponentially more time when you make a fool of youself).
3) they have rigid rules, which isn't bad. but they lose out of being bored. like i know when i have to entry, but wtf, I've already waited for hours, nothing happened, I'm diving in in anticipation, and surprise!!! nothing freaking happens. you wait another hour. your blood starts to boil and what the hack, here I am adding up more and more to my neutral position. then it starts to fade away from your strategic radar. and surprise again!!! you discover that you can no longer take the loss. you have too much skin in the game. since it's now or never, you shove all in and the damnedest thing is how abruptly and violently the market starts to hurt you. one thing is clear: you no longer think, think, breath . you're cooked altogether. now you're changing your s/l to avoid a margin call. you have 7 more pips to go. c'mon man, 2 pips to go and the fking broker just cleared my position. now you're staring at the screen, if you didn't smash your computer into the wall, have no idea wtf just happened and how in the world you just lost 20% of your account. you don't tell anyone., you don't take a break, you'll restart tomorrow to recover the loss and edge your account to infinity (as always envisioned). the only problem is that tomorrow you'll be doing exactly the same mistakes and before you smash another computer into the wall, you'll be down another 20%.
this happened to me (without the computer rage) and to almost everyone that started out confident and superhigh on hope. hope is the leverage, always.
the only thing that's accommodating yourself through this process is to trade your system (whichever that is) and forget the money. they will come and go. if your system is good, then you'll make money.
hope it helps :-)
  • #25
  • Sep 30, 2014 4:51pm Sep 30, 2014 4:51pm
Quoting Poolsuckswat
as already said, you can't avoid losing the minimum you could lose in order to trade. to trade, you must open a position and pay the spread (in some cases swaps and commissions): there's a loss. then you can lose another minimum by trading 0.01 sizes. to heal your fear trade the minimum!!! then you'll get more comfortable (it's not a time-line, like after one month, after one year, etc), after a number of trades, and you'll be able to increase your size. i'm answering directly to your question, of how to conquer your fears of losing not of what's...

the mint that you post it i try to read it but i was taking a wake .... thinking

i understand what you mean and already i felt every word... before i was speaking with the market ... come on go up little more.... one more pip .... at least break even ....

but thanks to god now i believe in my strategies .... i don't open until i see a good signal ... i done close unless i got the signal ... i dont risk more than i can lose so i can sleep @ night and i have some positions open .

one day... may be soon i will write my story with the market for every one maybe someone will learn something from it.i always say

dont say something before doing it first and get the result.
  • #26
  • Sep 30, 2014 6:35pm Sep 30, 2014 6:35pm
Quoting hamedmohd
{quote} the mint that you post it i try to read it but i was taking a wake .... thinking i understand what you mean and already i felt every word... before i was speaking with the market ... come on go up little more.... one more pip .... at least break even .... but thanks to god now i believe in my strategies .... i don't open until i see a good signal ... i done close unless i got the signal ... i dont risk more than i can lose so i can sleep @ night and i have some positions open . one day... may be soon i will write my story with the...
thanks hamedmohd, thanks for your appreciation!
trading is fighting and defeating your inner demons.
the chief satan (the chief economist in this bestiary) is everyone's fear of failing, of being a loser, of fooling oneself.
but this is how everyone came to trading in the first place. it was exciting, but not excitement makes us deposit hundreds or thousands of dollars into an account.
we do it because we know something. we know that we have an understanding of some specific market conditions and we could add value to our capital (to our life per se).
and also, the most important, we took this path wishing to defeat these inner demons. we trusted ourselves not to screw up.
but we screw up, it's human, it's a condition mostly.
people progress, get better, after screwing things up several times.
this is how I say:

- if you know that you're good (even if you're not that good, which doesn't mean that you can't make money) you must trust your guts and deliver this stuff.
- to deliver it, you must take the small steps (to recover from a huge loss, to reach a monthly/yearly target), the manageable and the thinkable. that also means that you must sweat the small stuff, like waiting for hours for some freaking macd to reverse, to have some losing days and still be proud that you managed to respect your strategy.
- stay accountable (i'm married and i try as much as i can to tell my spouse my weekly results, like % and not in nominal money, she knows as much as i do when i underperform for other reasons than pure market action) and never lie. if you lie, if you hide things, you'll never have the chance to improve.
- losing is a business cost (like buying inventory in a store). afford yourself to lose and still survive and profit when things are profitable.
- afford yourself to lose and afford yourself to think through every transaction you make, through every decision you take. if you can't close a position because you can't afford to be wrong or because the loss is greater than your initial expectation, you betray yourself, you betray every moment you invested in figuring out what's going on with the market. if you stop thinking (changing your decisions), you're done. you are done as a trader. might be for that particular day, might be forever. and that's a loss. and that's a pity. people should have the chance to pursue their dream. would it be to become a millionaire, i don't know. but at least it would be to get better, better persons. for that reason alone, markets are complicated. because they are simple and complicated. when we choose to start trading real money, we do it because it's simple. we've seen something simple, in its full simplicity. that means we trusted ourselves to being able to act when money lie literally on the floor. just pick it up and you'll be a winner. but market are also complicated (relative to our understanding). we never wanted to trade the complicated version of the market in the first place. but that's what 90% of traders do. if not every day, every quarter, than every year. that's how accounts get blown away. that's how dreams vanish into the void. by approximation, by boredom, by not trying to succeed.
- this is my advice to anyone who's struggling or is questioning their trading abilities. it's not how much money you make, it's not how much money you lose (although this is the only question I operate with: how much money I'll lose on this trade if s/l get hit/ how much money can i afford to lose in a given month and still be able to trade correctly/ how much money can my system lose because of statistical variance before i'll start doubting its future performance), it's your behavior! money is behavior/ trading is knowledge. start with the end in mind and you'll get there (also in the end). the rest it simply doesn't matter. it doesn't matter if you make 30% today, 20% next week, 3500% at the end of the year, after you'll give it back including your principal. i know institutional traders that trade millions every day. but there's someone out there to stop them if they trade badly. if you trade from home, you got only your voice... bothering you instead of helping you. so do the work and work it out! i also know common people that traded the markets in the tech bubble. my dentist was making 20k per day, really!!! he lost it all, like so many others. so who cares HOW MUCH you make? it's how it will end! hopefully, it doesn't end. wish you all the best. i'm not any better than anyone on this forum. it's just that i took my medicine. i also know how it was without it. as i said, losing my shirt without realizing that I was just fulfilling my 2nd dream: to turn myself into a loser, blame others for it, society, family, broker, my brain, everything. now, i just wait. I can manage to wait. money will lie there in some corner. maybe not this m30, not this h4, but soon. :-)
  • #27
  • Sep 30, 2014 7:29pm Sep 30, 2014 7:29pm
Quoting hamedmohd
{quote} the mint that you post it i try to read it but i was taking a wake .... thinking i understand what you mean and already i felt every word... before i was speaking with the market ... come on go up little more.... one more pip .... at least break even .... but thanks to god now i believe in my strategies .... i don't open until i see a good signal ... i done close unless i got the signal ... i dont risk more than i can lose so i can sleep @ night and i have some positions open . one day... may be soon i will write my story with the...
"come on go up little more.... one more pip .... at least break even .... "

breaking even is the devil, my friend.
it's a promise he never keeps!
it promises that you'll never lose.
that you'll break even or win.
the market is 3d, as much as the world is.
breaking even is like jumping through the window and ignoring the downsize.
nothing breaks even. and if it does, it doesn't matter! it's simply neutral according to your mathematical expectations.
  • #28
  • Sep 30, 2014 10:51pm Sep 30, 2014 10:51pm
start trading.

do not think.

DO.

watch a 1 minute chart.

very closely.

try to figure out why it does what it does.

trade 0.01 lots until you feel comfortable putting on more.
Please check out my blog at https://from-zero-to-hero . net
  • #29
  • Oct 1, 2014 1:39am Oct 1, 2014 1:39am
Quoting Poolsuckswat
{quote} thanks hamedmohd, thanks for your appreciation! trading is fighting and defeating your inner demons. the chief satan (the chief economist in this bestiary) is everyone's fear of failing, of being a loser, of fooling oneself. but this is how everyone came to trading in the first place. it was exciting, but not excitement makes us deposit hundreds or thousands of dollars into an account. we do it because we know something. we know that we have an understanding of some specific market conditions and we could add value to our capital (to our...

like always big posts

i dont know where to start but i call tel that you are right about mostly everything
market it is simple and it is complected,people fear from the unknown and 99% of the people like to have 1000$ like a salary beter than 10000$ from the financal markets due to unknown case

as one of my friends told me .... how can you know that you will stay profitable after 1 year of trading that is the case no one knows

like an old example i gave in this forum opening any business it is simply a risk you have to take in the unknown just you have to do your homework about the best place to open your shop,the type of goods that have a the best chance to sell and other type of thing that you have to be prepared to start your own business it is a risk to take but not before you most done the study case about it.


otherwise what is the guarantee that you will stay in your job for next 10,20,30,50 years .. and what is the guarantee is that the salary will cover all the expenses that you may have for next 50 years ???

this is life no guarantees just best guess
  • #30
  • Oct 1, 2014 1:40am Oct 1, 2014 1:40am
Quoting Poolsuckswat
{quote} "come on go up little more.... one more pip .... at least break even .... " breaking even is the devil, my friend. it's a promise he never keeps! it promises that you'll never lose. that you'll break even or win. the market is 3d, as much as the world is. breaking even is like jumping through the window and ignoring the downsize. nothing breaks even. and if it does, it doesn't matter! it's simply neutral according to your mathematical expectations.

  • #31
  • Oct 1, 2014 1:43am Oct 1, 2014 1:43am
Quoting smash1820
start trading. do not think. DO. watch a 1 minute chart. very closely. try to figure out why it does what it does. trade 0.01 lots until you feel comfortable putting on more.

am not a 1 minute chart guy

but already start trading and am doing good ... start following the trend as a swing trader and when ever i have time i try to open some 3 to 5 hours trades (as training and incensing the profits )
  • #32
  • Edited 2:18am Oct 1, 2014 2:06am | Edited 2:18am
Quoting hamedmohd
am not a 1 minute chart guy
my point is that studying 1 minute charts and learning to interpret them will teach you how to trade correctly and the fastest.

at first, it will seem like they are the hardest of all charts (time frames) to interpret.

but once you gain an understanding of them, you will see that they are actually the easiest of all time frames to interpret... and you can learn a hell of a lot about the markets during the process!

higher time frames are technically more difficult because they are influenced by more factors. The 1 minute TF is the bottom of the chain, so to speak...

in ways, studying the 1 minute TF is almost like studying a raw data feed of price itself.
Please check out my blog at https://from-zero-to-hero . net
  • #33
  • Oct 1, 2014 2:08am Oct 1, 2014 2:08am
Quoting smash1820
{quote} my point is that studying 1 minute charts and learning to interpret them will teach you how to trade correctly and the fastest
ahawill try to study it starting from today
  • #34
  • Oct 1, 2014 10:18am Oct 1, 2014 10:18am
Quoting smash1820
{quote} my point is that studying 1 minute charts and learning to interpret them will teach you how to trade correctly and the fastest. at first, it will seem like they are the hardest of all charts (time frames) to interpret. but once you gain an understanding of them, you will see that they are actually the easiest of all time frames to interpret... and you can learn a hell of a lot about the markets during the process! higher time frames are technically more difficult because they are influenced by more factors. The 1 minute TF is the bottom...
hi smash!

"The 1 minute TF is the bottom of the chain, so to speak..."
is it? it's not! it is on mt4 :-) and i'm not talking high frequency trading (hft), which for now is the absolute bottom in data feed and data/information analysis. i'm talking about people that have a different feed, trading 1 sec charts (pretty good for trends) through proprietary softw or bridges. but the topic here is what's the minimum cost to learn to trade what's profitable to everyone (not what's profitable from a fundamental market perspective, what's the best system out there, what's the most profitable tf, etc). the minimum cost to learning your way up, sorry to defy your possibly good advice, can't be M1. and there's a simple reason why it's not the minimum cost - the ratio between the spread and the average volatility is quite marginal if it really doesn't go against you during the quiet hours. you're getting better odds on m5 <m15 <m30 <h4, etc. you'll stop somewhere because you also need some frequency. i'm confident that it's profitable for you and for others (i also use it when i (have to) use it). but it's a personality related stuff. OP said he was swing trading. Ok, it's fine if he learns to scalp, but why not help him to excel at swinging, if there's any advice to give. personally, i don't mess with one's knowledge/learning, etc. it is what it is. everyone has his/her own story. the rest is how we choose to win or lose. be it on any time frame. this is a quote from soros (from memory): a speculator ought to speculate and shut his mouth up! what it means is that your comprehension of an event is limited to your own sake. you're wasting your time by socializing knowledge (it's a herd instinct and a losing marker in trading). my worst experience in trading was to convince a buddy how profitable it would be to him to open an equity account. i was making money, i was hotter than the sun during that period. since his working capital was smaller than mine, he was limited to bolder choices and almost no diversity. useless to say that i ended up making money while he lost during a 4 mth period. he didn't lose a lot, but he definitely lost. he felt unlucky, underachieving, etc. i was almost on the point to pay off his losses. he wasn't a trader, he did'n't want to become one, he was just impressed by my pitch and wanted some money. if one doesn't trade m1, doesn't eat octopus, doesn't believe in fairy tales, doesn't believe he could make 1 million by next summer, why try to make one think your way? so y'all: never give tips, never get tips. good luck to everyone!
  • #35
  • Edited 12:20pm Oct 1, 2014 11:35am | Edited 12:20pm
Quoting smash1820
start trading. do not think. DO. watch a 1 minute chart. very closely. try to figure out why it does what it does. trade 0.01 lots until you feel comfortable putting on more.
start trading.

do not think.

that's correct! but here's an analogy:

you learn to drive, you're a beginner.
your instructor (your mind, a system you borrowed, a strategy you read about) tells you to take a left, to slow down.
you think about it! you don't know how to drive.
this is how you drive. thinking about every step.
one day, you'll become natural. you won't think about it.
the moment you'll think about it, it will be the moment you'll be on the brink of getting into an accident (your inner gps is telling you smth is wrong, but usually it's too late to avoid anything).
trading is no different.
you think to learn. you learn to think. when these two turn into a (driving) license (when you prove to yourself that you can make money over and over again), it becomes unconscious.
the moment you start thinking about a trade is when you realize you're in the wrong trade (trading lingo: you're pretty fucked).
guess this is what smash was referring to.
but if you have to think, then think!
what people don't realize is that a beginner is really driving (toward his destination). it's at slow pace, it's fragmented, but it goes there.
make your money, not the money that are to be made from trading! cause you won't!!!

p.s. your inner gps needs two inputs to get you to the destination:
a) the destination
b) your current location.
than it offers you some options: the shortest way, the quickest way, with tolls, without tolls, etc.

people keep talking destinations (most of us have only holiday destinations in mind, hawaii, aruba, monte carlo).
"but what's your fucking location", asks the gps
"i'd tell you, but i'd rather do it myself, rewrite maps, discover roads by myself, so fuck you too", says the driver.
so this is what we do.
"i'm moving to monaco, i'm on my way, i'm also prospecting some yachts", is the answer, tough nobody asked us anything (except the gps)
some years later, no offense, "i was 3 streets away, i bought some cigarettes; i'm tired now to answer to these freaking questions"

:-)

yeah, and the longer you travel, then more tolls you'll end up paying. it sucks, i agree. if you avoid them, you'll get nowhere. you must know how many you;ll encounter. paying one and having no coins left for others is the same with avoiding them altogether. paying tolls is a contribution. don't be afraid to be great!
  • #36
  • Oct 2, 2014 7:01am Oct 2, 2014 7:01am
Start with smallest lots. Use daily and weekly charts. Place wide SL and TP . Get used to dancing numbers in front of you
  • #37
  • Oct 2, 2014 9:38am Oct 2, 2014 9:38am
Great Thread

It's a lot being said... just thought I would share my personal experience of growing throught the fear of pulling the trigger.

at the time...

A. I was using lagging indicators that would re-paint, that would cause me to second guess my entry.
B. I was using indicators - Which I learned later that price action is all that matters...

When I say all that matters I think of the topic... "How to Start like a pro?" What is a pro? ... I remember when I was learning I just wanted to be consistently profitable. In my humble opinion that was a pro to me. That's all I wanted.

For me to lose the fear I had to trust but its hard to trust the markets that seem so random, So I trusted the math, One of the best pieces of advice I can give you to help lose the fear is to trust the math.

- Understand 2:1 Risk:Reward, When you set your targets 2 times your risk, all you have to do is be right 40% of the time and you will be profitable. Where else can you be wrong 60% of the time and still get a raise lol... Gotta love trading.

Let the math work it self out and there's no reason to be afraid to pull the trigger.

Additional tip: Swing Trade your strategy on the H4 or D1 Charts + 2:1 Risk Rewards and watch the difference in your results over the next 50 trades

Hope you found this helpful
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  • #38
  • Oct 3, 2014 11:22am Oct 3, 2014 11:22am
When you start, it IS going to be frightening just a little bit. But when you make that first successful trade, it will be all worth it
  • #39
  • Oct 4, 2014 5:43pm Oct 4, 2014 5:43pm
thanks.....

i can say anything more than

thanks

its really help me to start trading

and thanks for all your ideas

and see you soon
  • #40
  • Oct 5, 2014 9:20am Oct 5, 2014 9:20am
Quoting hamedmohd
i dont know how to start this thread but i can till you that i do my home work about the currencies and how to trade. how to use leverage and trade in demo accounts i put a full staratigy that really it is gain more that it lose (not perfect but good one) but i find very hard to open any trade in live account also if i open some for 2 days i close all of it (with profits) and not open any more i dont like to open any positions any more in live account i dont know may be because i afraid i may lose some money ??!!! i try to put a targets,trading...
I use to fear winning consecutive trades because I know I will lose them out in one stubborn trade because I don't want to lose.

Trading is a business of probabilities and emotions. Either one of them you don't get it right. You will lose. Then I write out the reason why I must trade. And still fail. Then I write out the reason why I trade but this time because of hate or dislike. It works I open position on standard at 0.1 lot. Then before every trade I'm willing to risk $100 per trade. Ideally is $25 per trade. I can make $100 next month easily. So with this assurance I can now open trade. Multiple position because I hedge.

People do things because of pull or push factor. Rarely are they motivated because of pleasure. Most is pain and desperation. So I focus on pain. That keeps me moving.

Maybe you should try to write why you trade and focus on factors like working for people or office politics or being look down at.
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