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  • #7,441
  • Sep 12, 2014 6:57am Sep 12, 2014 6:57am
You're welcome, guys.
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  • #7,442
  • Sep 12, 2014 8:24am Sep 12, 2014 8:24am
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  • #7,443
  • Sep 12, 2014 8:43am Sep 12, 2014 8:43am
Quoting GU-Night
You're welcome, guys. {image}
Nice, I exited at very similar place on that trade today too based on your indi (and that I wanted to wrap it up for the weekend already), it was a good 10pips short of the usual QTP but it turned out nicely. Reverse trade now active... contemplating it!

Can I ask what settings you have as I have the same top one (where you exited) but not the one below... ive been fiddling with the settings but im not sure i understand what the best way to use it as its not really changing to my settings the way id expect...
thanks!
  • #7,444
  • Sep 12, 2014 8:57am Sep 12, 2014 8:57am
Thanks for that indi,I have been looking for a free version of that one
I would be interested to know what settings you have.

I noticed if you double click on the lines you can move the lines and therefore increase the sample taken ,so you could click the red line on the left and drag it back to have a weeks data for more powerful S/R
  • #7,445
  • Sep 12, 2014 9:21am Sep 12, 2014 9:21am
Quoting jamesfr
Thanks for that indi,I have been looking for a free version of that one I would be interested to know what settings you have. I noticed if you double click on the lines you can move the lines and therefore increase the sample taken ,so you could click the red line on the left and drag it back to have a weeks data for more powerful S/R
crap how did i miss that, thanks for the hint

Im using in between lines> 7500 > 10 or 15 Mode - but Im still investigating whats best
  • #7,446
  • Sep 12, 2014 12:20pm Sep 12, 2014 12:20pm
I have no fixed settings. I draw triangle like patterns in or around CZ’s. I want to see a clear break out of that triangle like pattern (and at least a close outside the CZ) and then price has to come back for me where the two diagonal lines and a horizontal line from the TPO Indy intersect (in the CZ).
At the moment I have drawn a (for me) clear triangle like pattern (with fibonacci fans or discretionary lines) and the cross doesn’t match with the TPO indy, I shift the blue vertical line to the left (a week maximal), if there pops up a dotted line who match with the triangle like pattern cross, than that price and that moment are for me valid to trade(after a breakout of that pattern).

In short, I use diagonal lines crosses to determine which period I use at that moment for the TPO Indy. The first picture was from the beginning of the week until now or so, and the second picture yesterday until now, or something like that.

@jamesfr
What do you mean with: “I have been looking for a free version of that one”? Do you mean that the one I posted is not a free version? If so, the .mq4 can be downloaded here, under: Загрузка
http://fxcoder.net/en/node/20
  • #7,447
  • Sep 12, 2014 12:24pm Sep 12, 2014 12:24pm
Quoting GU-Night
I have no fixed settings. I draw triangle like patterns in or around CZ’s. I want to see a clear break out of that triangle like pattern (and at least a close outside the CZ) and then price has to come back for me where the two diagonal lines and a horizontal line from the TPO Indy intersect (in the CZ). At the moment I have drawn a (for me) clear triangle like pattern (with fibonacci fans or discretionary lines) and the cross doesn’t match with the TPO indy, I shift the blue vertical line to the left (a week maximal), if there pops up a dotted...
Hi GU-Night

I just meant that I have been looking for a free indicator like the one you posted
  • #7,448
  • Sep 12, 2014 12:30pm Sep 12, 2014 12:30pm
Quoting jamesfr
{quote} Hi GU-Night I just meant that I have been looking for a free indicator like the one you posted
Okay, that's fine. You have it now.
  • #7,449
  • Sep 13, 2014 11:09am Sep 13, 2014 11:09am
Quoting gjgjg
{quote} Nice, I exited at very similar place on that trade today too based on your indi (and that I wanted to wrap it up for the weekend already), it was a good 10pips short of the usual QTP but it turned out nicely. Reverse trade now active... contemplating it! Can I ask what settings you have as I have the same top one (where you exited) but not the one below... ive been fiddling with the settings but im not sure i understand what the best way to use it as its not really changing to my settings the way id expect... thanks!
Try the m5 chart to get the line below in that picture. That should work.
  • #7,450
  • Sep 15, 2014 4:31am Sep 15, 2014 4:31am
Quoting GU-Night
{quote} Try the m5 chart to get the line below in that picture. That should work.
Roger thanks. I usually work on 5min charts, i guess its updating all the time so was too late to get same line...
Im using the 'inbetween lines' setting now and just moving it to positions that make sense, seeing how that goes. I can see this morning after the drop (which I missed trading, straight to QTP doh) that the same line has reappeared and caused some resistance... im on the right track i think!
  • #7,451
  • Sep 15, 2014 11:13am Sep 15, 2014 11:13am
Quoting gjgjg
{quote} Roger thanks. I usually work on 5min charts, i guess its updating all the time so was too late to get same line... Im using the 'inbetween lines' setting now and just moving it to positions that make sense, seeing how that goes. I can see this morning after the drop (which I missed trading, straight to QTP doh) that the same line has reappeared and caused some resistance... im on the right track i think!
I hope for you that you can find your way with the indy. The indy gives me more confidence in my trading, I don’t second guess anymore. Probably just a psychological aspect!

I didn’t trade the EURUSD either, the situation was not clear to me. I did trade EURGBP, CADCHF and CADJPY. +59 pips. Entry on CADCHF was a bit early, the daily tf in combination with m5 gave me some early clues.
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  • #7,452
  • Sep 15, 2014 11:49am Sep 15, 2014 11:49am
Quoting GU-Night
{quote} I hope for you that you can find your way with the indy. The indy gives me more confidence in my trading, I don’t second guess anymore. Probably just a psychological aspect! I didn’t trade the EURUSD either, the situation was not clear to me. I did trade EURGBP, CADCHF and CADJPY. +59 pips. Entry on CADCHF was a bit early, the daily tf in combination with m5 gave me some early clues. {image} {image} {image}
Really interesting. I've tried to operate with CZ but I allways hesitate about which pair trade. Do you choose according to the triangle pattern BO? And also, how do you decide TP? I've read you do 1:1 risk manegement. I'll be glad to hear about how do you do.

I use to trade just intraday London session. Thank you for share your charts and comments.


thanks
F.D. Toni
  • #7,453
  • Edited 1:14pm Sep 15, 2014 1:03pm | Edited 1:14pm
Quoting forexdaist
{quote} Really interesting. I've tried to operate with CZ but I allways hesitate about which pair trade. Do you choose according to the triangle pattern BO? And also, how do you decide TP? I've read you do 1:1 risk manegement. I'll be glad to hear about how do you do. I use to trade just intraday London session. Thank you for share your charts and comments. thanks F.D. Toni
Hi FD Toni, (sorry for jumping in, but I felt I could give my perspective) if youre not just talking about the indi GU Night shared with us, and youre just referring to the SSBO system; these questions (for me) are only answered by spending hours upon hours studying the system and the charts. When I started with SSBO I found 'winning' settings very quickly with the indi only after a few days of tweaking them a little here and there. Quickly I settled on a few pairs to trade from that. After a couple of weeks, these 'systems' broke down and I lost total confidence and couldnt see what settings were good and what pairs to trade etc etc.
It was only after reading the thread from the start for a 2nd / 3rd time after spending even more time with the indi and watching price action respond to the individual settings, thinking everything over, why these things happen etc etc did I get confident on which pairs to trade long term and on which settings.
I wanted easy answers quickly at the start too, but even if I could speak to myself in the past from today I would only say the same thing because the actual answer wont make a difference unless you put the time in to find them yourself anyway (again-imho, it doesnt improve your confidence to trade particular settings etc) - sorry I dont have any quick and easy solutions, imho the only good answers come from putting the hours in, which isbut worth it.

Additionally, I've noticed that due to the increase in volume in the last month, my usual settings -which Ive got huge confidence in- have stopped producing Czs as regularly, causing a dip in revenue (red alert). Because I feel like I 'know' the system and the SSBO indi well enough now I can take steps to improve my CZ rates in a way Im confident to trade, relatively quickly. I wouldnt have been able to do that at the start

My interest in GU Nights indi is due to my own observations in PA over the last months and how it works itself out of the CZs and I find it useful to possibly mark / predict points of entry other than the main one (at or over CZ buffer).

Hope that makes some sense and Im not rambling
Im going to teach a few ppl soon the SSBO system (or what I know of it) to some friends and these posts are good for me to get my thoughts together anyway, so either way its all good lol

PS damn just missed my long GU and AU. arg!
  • #7,454
  • Sep 15, 2014 1:06pm Sep 15, 2014 1:06pm
Quoting GU-Night
{quote} I hope for you that you can find your way with the indy. The indy gives me more confidence in my trading, I don’t second guess anymore. Probably just a psychological aspect! I didn’t trade the EURUSD either, the situation was not clear to me. I did trade EURGBP, CADCHF and CADJPY. +59 pips. Entry on CADCHF was a bit early, the daily tf in combination with m5 gave me some early clues. {image} {image} {image}
Nice job, you have some good points marked on your indis! I'll keep fiddling with mine... Im getting some interesting stuff from it for sure
I stay away from those pairs, I couldnt get good SSBO settings on them that I liked - also my wide spread on them can make it pretty tricky to be worth it long term! Shame cos they are good movers. I like UTRY at the moment, and I have reasonable spread on it. Thats as sexy + exotic as I get!
  • #7,455
  • Sep 16, 2014 2:16pm Sep 16, 2014 2:16pm
Quoting forexdaist
{quote} Really interesting. I've tried to operate with CZ but I allways hesitate about which pair trade. Do you choose according to the triangle pattern BO? And also, how do you decide TP? I've read you do 1:1 risk manegement. I'll be glad to hear about how do you do. I use to trade just intraday London session. Thank you for share your charts and comments. thanks F.D. Toni
Hey forexdaist, I don’t trade with RR 1:1. I have an EA running on a demo account who trades with 1:1. I trade manual with at least RR 1:2 but often higher RR. The rest you want to know is on my charts. No magic secrets here!

Below were for me clean setups for today. Traded only EURGBP from these examples. I lost 10 pips on EURJPY today, not attached because it was a very very bad trade. Shame on me!
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  • #7,456
  • Sep 16, 2014 2:19pm Sep 16, 2014 2:19pm
Quoting gjgjg
{quote} Hi FD Toni, (sorry for jumping in, but I felt I could give my perspective) if youre not just talking about the indi GU Night shared with us, and youre just referring to the SSBO system; these questions (for me) are only answered by spending hours upon hours studying the system and the charts. When I started with SSBO I found 'winning' settings very quickly with the indi only after a few days of tweaking them a little here and there. Quickly I settled on a few pairs to trade from that. After a couple of weeks, these 'systems' broke down and...
Nice post!



I’ll check USDTRY but I don't think I've a reasonable spread on that pair!
  • #7,457
  • Sep 17, 2014 4:37am Sep 17, 2014 4:37am
Ok thanks GU-Night. I'm practicing your way. Right now I found a nice setup but I'm still not relly sure. What do you think?

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All comments are wellcome!


have a nice day
FD Toni
  • #7,458
  • Sep 17, 2014 5:30am Sep 17, 2014 5:30am
Quoting forexdaist
Ok thanks GU-Night. I'm practicing your way. Right now I found a nice setup but I'm still not relly sure. What do you think? {image} All comments are wellcome! have a nice day FD Toni
That is not the way I trade, but it can be a winner. This is one I took today, stoploss on breakeven now.
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  • #7,459
  • Sep 17, 2014 8:54am Sep 17, 2014 8:54am
Quoting forexdaist
Ok thanks GU-Night. I'm practicing your way. Right now I found a nice setup but I'm still not relly sure. What do you think? {image} All comments are wellcome! have a nice day FD Toni
Does that look as a CZ as teached by Forexhard? Not in my opinion. But if so, does that look as a breakout of that CZ? Not in my opinion. But if so, does it come back in a confluence area? Not in my opinion.


All my examples (except CADCHF) show at least a close outside a CZ as teached by Forexhard. But I’m not here to teach, I haven’t that ambition. I show only some ideas, not a system.

The setups I show may look like simple, but if it was that simple everyone was rich isn’t it?

I have gotten some pm’s from people lately and I want to answer them all with a post I read some time ago on this forum. It is in line with gjgjg’s post #7453. It comes all down to one word: CONTEXT. And it is really hard work to gain that CONTEXT. Many people won't do that hard work.


Here it is:


"If you don't mind I'm going to be very straight forward, and blunt even, but I hope you'll take it from a spirit of sincerity and genuine desire to help. It's going to be a long comment, so I'm going to break it up into 2 or 3 comments.


Here's the situation as I see it: For the last few months, and possibly much longer, you've just been spinning your wheels while thinking that you are getting somewhere. The reason for this is that you are going about learning how to trade in the wrong way, in my opinion. I say this because I've been trading much less than you, a little over 2 years now, and yet because of the way I went about learning and what I focused on, last year I netted $150k while nearly quintupling my account, without a single losing month, and while only risking a very small portion of my account on any single trade. Now there could be many reasons for the difference in performance, but I think one of the main reasons has to do with what you are focusing on and how you are going about the learning process.


To try to put it as succinctly as possible, in my view traders that are focusing all their attention on "set-ups" and finding out which combinations of indicators work are never going to become profitable. They are trying to follow the advice of trading books that say trading is simple and psychology is everything. So they search for set-ups that 'work', and that can take the guess work out of trading. They want to be "disciplined" and have simple rules that guide all their actions. But there's a few problems with this. Namely, while psychology is HUGE, it's not everything. And while trading is all about simple principles, actually having an edge is NOT simple. It's a myth that you can have a couple simple price or indicator set-ups and make money consistently if only you are disciplined. That's a load of crap. It keeps the dream alive for wannabe traders who never realize what it's truly about. Well let me tell you what it's truly about...

Trading is about being okay with ambiguity. It's about tolerating confusion. It's about sitting with discomfort and being at peace with it. It's about not having an exact script of when to trade or not to trade, or what's really a high odds trade, and being okay with that. It's about exceptions to the rules. It's about contradiction. It's about uncertainty.


And yet traders left and right want to make it simple. They want to reduce it to a few simple set-ups to trade with discipline. And yet the market is not simple. The market is all about uncertainty, and complexity, and ambiguity. Simple set-ups could never capture that, and they can never give you a true lasting edge.

So what's the solution? Is the problem in the simple set-ups themselves? No, it's in how they're being used. The bottom line is, every trader needs to learn to READ the markets. This means that simple rules will not do. There has to be a synthesis of different elements (whether they be price action, indicators, inter-market themes or whatever), and real-time interpretation must take place. It has to be all about CONTEXT. Once you can read the markets, and don't fool yourself it is a very complex process, then you can choose to employ "simple" set-ups to enter and exit. But the real work will be in interpreting the market to see when you should use which kind of set-up. Seeing a hammer or whatever near a support means nothing unless you've identified the broader picture and gotten a sense of the kind of tactics you should be using, and what the odds are for different scenarios unfolding.


Now I know you, and most traders do this to a certain extent, but your main focus is on the set-ups. It's not on reading the market from minute to minute, hour to hour, figuring out the odds of it doing this or doing that, adapting dynamically, and thinking of trade ideas from all your observation as the day unfolds. Rather, it's waiting for some simple set-up to pop up and then taking it.


Now is it easier emotionally to have clear set-ups to wait for and trade in this simple manner? Absolutely. But who said 'easy' would make you money. If I've learned anything, it's that the market rewards what is hard to do. It's hard to have ambiguity surrounding your market reads. It's hard being uncertain. It's hard dealing with competing and sometimes conflicting signs. And yet, this is what it's all about. You have to stop trying to avoid this by needing things to be clear cut. And is it hard to be disciplined when there's so much uncertainty about what is the right trade to make? Of course. But instead of trying to avoid the uncertainty by looking for simple set-ups, or some straight-forward method, train your mind to be able to deal with the uncertainty.



As for the learning process of how you go about doing this, it's all about being constantly engaged with the markets, trying to figure things out and learn from experience. For me, for instance, what I did was each and every day take notes in a journal all about market action and what I think it means, and how I should trade, and what is working and what's not. I didn't write a journal describing the trades I took, or what my emotions were during the day. It was all about market action. And it was all my perception and interpretation. Day after day, week after week, making mistakes, wrong calls, being clueless as to what was going on, not knowing how I should trade, not knowing if my views made sense or not, and yet I continued taking notes and learning. Then I would view charts and combinations of historical intraday charts, and I'd note certain behavior. For example, I'd study trend day after trend day and try to notice what they had in common and how I could have picked up on it in real time. Then I'd study range days. Then I'd study a price chart of the ES versus the Advance decline line and see what the relationship was across many different days. Then I'd do the same with the ES and TICK chart. And on and on. Over time, this gave me a feel for the markets, and a certain understanding of how certain days differ and many subtle signs and tells for each type of environment and context.


As for set-ups, I didn't use any predefined ones. I just formed trading ideas and then tried to get in at good trade locations. Even this, which is the art of execution, is quite complicated and not straight forward. I started realizing that in some environments it's best to wait for pullbacks, in others I need to get in at market or I'll be left in the dust. In some markets I can buy low and sell high, in other markets the opposite is in order. And so on.


I became consistently profitable in a timeframe of a few months by doing this. But of course before that I had read 30 or 40 books and so I had all the technical background. I had also worked a lot on my psychology and personal issues. But all of this was in conjunction with a method of learning and trading the markets that was mostly in opposition to what the general wisdom says about simple set-ups and exact rules.


Now of course you might say that everyone has their own style, some discretionary and some not. Absolutely. But even the purely mechanical traders are very adept at reading markets, and are aware of all of the complexity and ambiguity inherent in it. Their system might end up being simple, but it will come about through a very deep and complex understanding of markets. And usually this system will take the market environment (i.e. context) into account. It wont just be simple mindless set-ups.


In the end, all of what I am saying is meaningless unless you come to a personal realization. Take a look at your trading career thus far. Do you truly believe that if you just learn to focus and take all of your set-ups then your equity curve will reverse and you'll be a consistently profitable trader? Why would the world's top institutions spend millions and billions on R&D when a few simple set-ups could make them all of the money. This doesn't mean that to make money you need extremely complex mathematical models. Far from it. What it does mean is that you need extremely complex mental maps that take time and experience to develop, and that will never develop if you spend the whole trading day simply waiting for set-ups to materialize. That just won't cut it.


Right now your learning curve is stagnant because you're not truly studying the markets. Your day is wasted in waiting mode. It's not in observing and absorbing mode. Also, because you fear loss, you aren't willing to experiment. This means that you aren't making mistakes and failing regularly, which is what you need to do to learn quickly.


So to conclude, based on all of the above, my advice to you would be to stop trading and make a mental shift. Realize what you need to do to become successful, and it's definitely not staying on this endlessly unfruitful path being supported by the hope of future profits. You're just running in your place unless you change your focus and your learning method. And if you thought the journey was tough so far, you haven't seen anything yet. Get ready for uncertainty and ambiguity like you've never seen it before. But this shouldn't be scary. It should be exciting, because this is what trading is all about. This is why it's called an ART. And it truly becomes one when you change your focus and your learning process. Then everything, including success, becomes possible. And until then, it'll be a distant dream that keeps appearing to be so close and yet stays so far away.


So you need to re-align with a new thought system and then get on the simulator and trade. Take losses. Make mistakes. Be clueless. Don't be afraid of it. It's okay, that's the only way you'll progress. And trust me, progress you will.


Best of luck to you, and I wish you much success.


Ziad"
  • #7,460
  • Sep 17, 2014 9:57am Sep 17, 2014 9:57am
Quoting GU-Night
{quote} Does that look as a CZ as teached by Forexhard? Not in my opinion. But if so, does that look as a breakout of that CZ? Not in my opinion. But if so, does it come back in a confluence area? Not in my opinion. All my examples (except CADCHF) show at least a close outside a CZ as teached by Forexhard. But I’m not here to teach, I haven’t that ambition. I show only some ideas, not a system. The setups I show may look like simple, but if it was that simple everyone was rich isn’t it? I have gotten some pm’s from people lately and I want to answer...
Thank you. You are very kind.
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