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reasons why traders lose

  • #21
  • Sep 2, 2014 1:45pm Sep 2, 2014 1:45pm
Reasons why traders lose ?

The valid question is:

IS ANYONE WINNING ?


Big silence in the room?
  • #22
  • Sep 2, 2014 1:51pm Sep 2, 2014 1:51pm
Quoting Mingary
Reasons why traders lose ? The valid question is: IS ANYONE WINNING ? Big silence in the room?
most traders loose because they are rubbish at trading
and the others loose because they are too good at trading
as winning is not allowed (for long)
  • #23
  • Sep 2, 2014 1:53pm Sep 2, 2014 1:53pm
Quoting Carlsberg
{quote} most traders loose because they are rubbish at trading and the others loose because they are too good at trading as winning is not allowed (for long)
Indeed, winning is not allowed -- by design.
  • #24
  • Sep 2, 2014 3:59pm Sep 2, 2014 3:59pm
Quoting Mingary
Reasons why traders lose ? The valid question is: IS ANYONE WINNING ? Big silence in the room?
LOL, Mingray, yeah as hard as it is to believe, a lot of traders do make profitable trades..but got to ask, why do you immediately assume that everyone is lying about making money in forex - it lacks logic..
  • #25
  • Sep 2, 2014 9:04pm Sep 2, 2014 9:04pm
All of them are true and fair points, and to add another would be attempting to redeem losses during a session or trying to offset a large draw-down. Normally it is best to cut losses when a strategy is not working and take an opportunity to reassess and reflect on the session...
  • #26
  • Sep 2, 2014 11:42pm Sep 2, 2014 11:42pm
traders lose because spot forex is a zero-sum game. you're directly competing against other speculators. if you're not up to par you lose. this is why you need to start off with demo and small disposable accounts
  • #27
  • Sep 4, 2014 4:11am Sep 4, 2014 4:11am
Quoting Forexnuts
{quote} LOL, Mingray, yeah as hard as it is to believe, a lot of traders do make profitable trades..but got to ask, why do you immediately assume that everyone is lying about making money in forex - it lacks logic..
Actually what lacks logic is to say that "a lot of traders do make profitable trades", this is no logical if 95 % lose at this game: "very few traders make profitable trades" is more accurate.

A 95 % chance of losing is a bad, bad bet.

Your question: "why do you immediately assume that everyone is lying about making money in forex - it lacks logic"

Simple. Everyone who have really invested themselves and given heart and soul to this project find themselves in denial when reality finally kicks in.
Either, they lie because they believe they can make money (delusion) or they lie because they are ashamed of having wasted money and time (denial).
So, with this in mind, it is absolutely certain that everyone lies about their forex trading activity at some level or another (when winning or when losing)
  • #28
  • Sep 4, 2014 4:32am Sep 4, 2014 4:32am
Quoting Proximus
Luckily i had basic economic knowledge about the markets... And i tell you the market is a very complex mechanism... ultimately its driven by traders...
Sorry to say that but I doubt in this statement, let me please question it:

'Ultimately the market is driven by traders'
(by 'traders' you mean those who trade professionally, meaning buying in order to sell, and selling in order to buy, right?).

My statement is: IMHO, the market is driven by 'non-professional traders',
i.e. those who buy things not to sell them back but in order to use the things somehow because they need these things
(and sell things because they don't need them, not in order to buy them back).

'Professional traders' come second after 'non-professional traders' (simple people with their practical needs).

Lets talk e.g. tourists, they buy and sell currencies without looking at the course or something, right?

There are other guys and economical entities buying and selling currencies like tourists, i.e. right when they need, what
they need, in amounts they need without taking into account something like 'learning curve of 5-10 years how to trade
currencies', right?

'Non-professional traders' without 'learning curve of 5-10 years' are the main guys driving the market, not 'professional traders'.

Say, without 'non-professional traders' we don't have 'professional traders' at all (the opposite is not true), right?

This 'basic economic knowledge' doesn't say it that because it is written by 'professional traders' who wants to improve
their self-esteem and prestige and don't want accept the idea that they are not those who drive the market.


Quoting Proximus
...Also trading as a profession is probably the oldest profession that every existed, even the caveman traded with his fellow caveman, so it has a very old culture and tricks behind it...
This text is the brightest illustration for the idea that 'professional traders' think that they rule the world and they write it in their learnbooks.

It seems to me that cavemen were not 'professional traders', they were 'NON-professional traders', just consuming the things they changed.

'Professional traders' pretend that they are the same as 'non-professional traders'? but they are not.

Quoting Proximus
...No the Wikipedia definition is correct, forex is only a currency market, nothing else.However the currencies themselves are tied in with many many markets, currencies are affected by many things, including stocks ,bond etc.In large perspective with the entire economy, but the market itself is only about currencies.
If so, why the same companies helping people to trade currencies also help them to trade stocks etc. WITH THE SAME SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE?
One cannot distinguish trading currencies from trading metals, right? It looks completely the same.
  • #29
  • Sep 5, 2014 2:03pm Sep 5, 2014 2:03pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Actually what lacks logic is to say that "a lot of traders do make profitable trades", this is no logical if 95 % lose at this game: "very few traders make profitable trades" is more accurate. A 95 % chance of losing is a bad, bad bet. ... So, with this in mind, it is absolutely certain that everyone lies about their forex trading activity at some level or another (when winning or when losing)
LOL, Mingray, thanks for the explanation but this is where it falls flat..for one, where do you get the stats from? This was a question that was asked of you a while back and to date, no one's popped up to take it head on. But that aside, with a stretch of imagination, I guess there are a lot of traders who could do "Analyse this", but even so, given the results and records of most traders shown online, from fxbook to rest, the losing percentage is but a small one.

And of course, if we weed out the live account from the demo ones, you would still find that a lot of traders do make money trading Fx..but I guess to each his own..
  • #30
  • Sep 5, 2014 3:08pm Sep 5, 2014 3:08pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Actually what lacks logic is to say that "a lot of traders do make profitable trades", this is no logical if 95 % lose at this game: "very few traders make profitable trades" is more accurate. A 95 % chance of losing is a bad, bad bet. Your question: "why do you immediately assume that everyone is lying about making money in forex - it lacks logic" Simple. Everyone who have really invested themselves and given heart and soul to this project find themselves in denial when reality finally kicks in. Either, they lie because they believe they...
what about the 5%?
presumably no-one on FF is in the 5%
(i'm not having a go, just asking)

there should alway's be the other side of the story,
as much as we all hate negatively, it should be said abit more often, and maybe it will help some not to loose their life savings, when they actually could of demoed for a few more yrs and then beat the market


here's my best advice, a trader should NEVER trade live until they are completely ready
the market is going no-where
spend the money you would loose on the one or two blown accounts on something nice,
like a once in a life time holiday, a new car, a deposit for house or another house
invest in a business,
spend it on hookers and coke etc etc
just don't give it to the market makers

experience costs nothing to gain in the market - unless you really want to give away your savings to pay for it

the chances of actually beating the market increase exponentially and depending on the amount of time you did nt go live and demoed instead for 2-4yrs+
  • #31
  • Sep 7, 2014 5:17am Sep 7, 2014 5:17am
If newbie would just trade higher time frames and stick to 2% of equity rule they would be fewer losses and definitely they would,be around to trade forex.
  • #32
  • Sep 8, 2014 6:56am Sep 8, 2014 6:56am
Quoting ericnyamu
If newbie would just trade higher time frames and stick to 2% of equity rule they would be fewer losses and definitely they would,be around to trade forex.
Yup, there should be a bar against allowing newbies to trade shorter time frames..but then again, when do newbies ever opt for the safe route..
  • #33
  • Sep 9, 2014 11:23am Sep 9, 2014 11:23am
Quoting blesssing23
Reasons why traders lose.
You forgot arrogance, ego and stupidity. Some people would rather cling to inferior methods than do the work necessary to learn superior ones.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #34
  • Sep 10, 2014 3:29am Sep 10, 2014 3:29am
I agree with all the reasons here , everyone will have their own definition of why traders lose.
you can say that almost every reason given in this thread is right.
I read one post saying that a small capital is still acceptable but provided that you scale your position accordingly.
but then the factor of greed will come into play. which every human has. FEAR AND GREED.
Most of the people here trade forex to have the easy life in the first place that means get rich quick so greed in traders are way higher than greed in a person that has a normal job.
so the guy that trades a small account will want that account to grow quick. so he will over trade he will double up on losers etc.

Greed , fear , lack of discipline plays roles in why traders fail.

but all this can also be good for the person that has the discipline and for the person that does not have greed or any fear. how and why?
well greed and fear makes the markets move the way it moves.
for us to be winners someone has to be a loser.

so at the end of the day not everyone can be winners.

i have been trading for 3 years now thats my total exposure to the forex world.
before that i knew nothing about it.
the road is not an easy road but at the end it is worth it.
theres no such thing as a road with no obstacles
i met great traders in forex factory and some traders just couldnt make it. it wasnt for them.

to be in this game for a long time you need to have a solid trading PLAN.
the plan must tell you what to look for when you open your charts
the plan must tell you when to enter exactly and not when to enter more or less.
the plan must tell you when to exit exactly and not when to exit more or less.

Do you think your ego or lack of discipline can get in the way if you have a solid trading plan?
if you still dont follow the trading plan exactly that means you dont have a solid trading plan.
a plan like that will make you win because that plan will only make you trade when its time to trade and not on what you think or what you feel or what your big fat ego will tell you to do.
you must make that ego skinny and weak . train it . pin it down and ride it. dont allow it to ride you
i am a nobody
  • #35
  • Edited 6:08am Sep 10, 2014 5:38am | Edited 6:08am
Quoting Forexnuts
{quote} LOL, Mingray, thanks for the explanation but this is where it falls flat..for one, where do you get the stats from? This was a question that was asked of you a while back and to date, no one's popped up to take it head on. But that aside, with a stretch of imagination, I guess there are a lot of traders who could do "Analyse this", but even so, given the results and records of most traders shown online, from fxbook to rest, the losing percentage is but a small one. And of course, if we weed out the live account from the demo ones,...
==> fxbook and others, the losing percentage is but a small one.

That cannot be right.
The winning accounts stay up until they lose -- on average that does not take long. Once the account starts losing the trader takes it down. Therefore, you will only see winning accounts in fxbook. It's a terribly false picture.

==> you will find that a lot of traders do make money trading fx

it's obvious that they do not. Without even trying to request any proof of any kind from "the forex millionaires" just simple observation will show the opposite ! For example, it's clear the curent move down in the euro wiped out thousands of accounts..
  • #36
  • Sep 10, 2014 7:47am Sep 10, 2014 7:47am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} ==> fxbook and others, the losing percentage is but a small one. That cannot be right. The winning accounts stay up until they lose -- on average...just simple observation will show the opposite ! For example, it's clear the curent move down in the euro wiped out thousands of accounts..
LOL Mingray, I will accept that Fxbook tends to present a skewed picture but to still go from there to "very few or no one makes money in fx" is a bit of a stretch..
  • #37
  • Sep 10, 2014 7:59am Sep 10, 2014 7:59am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} ==> fxbook and others, the losing percentage is but a small one. That cannot be right. The winning accounts stay up until they lose -- on average that does not take long. Once the account starts losing the trader takes it down. Therefore, you will only see winning accounts in fxbook. It's a terribly false picture.
Wow thats sooooooooo true, also here on FX factory you can see the TE's aggregated positions which are long and which are short are also not realistic as it most of those trades were just set an arbitrary order, and if they win they can trade another day, if they lose they cannot trade anymore ,so the "population" is ever changing as one trades will run out of money very soon.

Just check the top 10 real accounts of the week,memorize the guy who is in the 1st place, come back in 3 weeks and you can probably see him with
-99% return just about to delete his TE and start over
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #38
  • Sep 11, 2014 1:04am Sep 11, 2014 1:04am
I think that traders loose basically because they don't know what they are doing.

The main thing is that traders don't understand what is Forex.

Say, according to Wiki definition, Forex is about currencies only, but it is clear that traders can trade other things, e.g. stocks or metal.

So, what is Forex? Where one can find a definition close to reality?

Until traders have a good definition of Forex, traders cannot win, unless they have good intuition.
  • #39
  • Sep 15, 2014 1:02pm Sep 15, 2014 1:02pm
After many years of trading experience I think that I can indicate the main losing factors:
I always lose too much when I wasn't patient (when I breaking the rules) and when I risk to much. If you do not want to waste Your money, You must build really good trading plan for many (sometimes irrational) situations. In this plan You must specify many rules ike: trade Entry/Exit points, Risk Management. Finnaly, You must define how You can earn much more when You have a good trade and how to minimize Your loss size when You have a bad trade . It's all...

For create these rules You can use many trading tools and methods like:

  1. positions sizing (define size of Your position before trade open)
  2. stoploss level (define the place of cut Your loss when trade reasons will be canceled)
  3. pyramiding (use it to earn much more when You have a good trade)
  4. indicators, S/R levels or price action (to define the entry/exit signals)
  5. Muli Timeframe analysis (to always trade with the main trend)
  6. EA / automatization ( to follow the rules )

Professional EA Programmer (JForex, Metatrader)
  • #40
  • Sep 16, 2014 9:39am Sep 16, 2014 9:39am
Quoting WaveFX
After many years of trading experience I think that I can indicate the main losing factors: I always lose too much when I wasn't patient (when I breaking the rules) and when I risk to much. If you do not want to waste Your money, You must build really good trading plan for many (sometimes irrational) situations. In this plan You must specify many rules ike: trade Entry/Exit points, Risk Management. Finnaly, You must define how You can earn much more when You have a good trade and how to minimize Your loss size when You have a bad trade . It's...

Agree with you on this one.
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