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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #2,341
  • Aug 26, 2014 12:24pm Aug 26, 2014 12:24pm
Quoting doerpn
{quote} Hi all, interesting thread here that fits my opinion to not using SLs. ZebraSquirl, would you be so kind to tell me more about your using positive swap. I often have to close a trade cause swap eats me while waiting for a pair in loss to return..... How can one find out, which pairs swap is positive and which is negative? Thanks in advance. Keep on your good work here.
I use FXCM, so your broker may differ, but here is a screen shot of the "Advanced Dealing Rate" for GBP/NZD:

Attached Image


On the left, you'll see a field that says "RollS: .89"; on the right a field that says "RollB: -1.97". "RollS" refers to the rollover/swap charge if you sell the pair; "RollB" refers to the rollover/swap charge if you buy the pair. The swap for this pair on either the buy or the sell side is huge, especially if you compare it to a pair like EUR/USD (currently .06 on the sell/-.13 on the buy).

This is pretty much why I will only short EUR/NZD and GBP/NZD (which is going long Kiwi). A similar situation exists for AUD pairs, which I also will only go long AUD due to negative swap on the short side.
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
  • #2,342
  • Aug 26, 2014 12:41pm Aug 26, 2014 12:41pm
One thing that ticks me off is that my most brokers don't post swap rankings for pairs on a daily basis (at least mine doesn't); I have to do it myself as I consider whether to open a trade in a particular pair. Moreover, some brokers (like mine), have some somewhat complicated rules in place as to when a rollover occurs with respect to a particular pair.

It sure would be nice just to have a spreadsheet that I could refer to that ranks swaps for pairs from highest to lowest over the previous week, for example.

If you're really hot to get on the positive swap bus, though, you might want to check out long USD/RUB -- the positive swap is currently .96 (although the spread can be a little bit much; right now it's at 6 pips) or short EUR/TRY, with a positive swap of 1.16 (spread currently at 8.0).

Edit: All swap figures in USD.
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
  • #2,343
  • Aug 26, 2014 1:06pm Aug 26, 2014 1:06pm
Quoting ZebraSquirl
One thing that ticks me off is that my most brokers don't post swap rankings for pairs on a daily basis (at least mine doesn't); I have to do it myself as I consider whether to open a trade in a particular pair. Moreover, some brokers (like mine), have some somewhat complicated rules in place as to when a rollover occurs with respect to a particular pair. It sure would be nice just to have a spreadsheet that I could refer to that ranks swaps for pairs from highest to lowest over the previous week, for example. If you're really hot to get on the...
It annoys me that my broker (FXCM) doesn't post them on MT4. I have to use their Trading Station 2 platform to view the swap rates for all the pairs I trade. On top of that, TS2 only lets you subscribe to 20 symbols at a time unless you email them a request to unlock more. It's not a major thing but it is annoying. To me, whether it's a proprietary platform or MT4, there should be no reason that any and all information needed to do the job isn't available to us all the time on these platforms. It never made sense to me, retail currency trading has been a "big thing" for a while now but they're still sending us into battle with vague information and half-cocked. For example, why doesn't my MT4 have a Market News tab? I mean, I'm not asking for every single piece of information ever - just some highlights. But no, I get no news service fed into it. My terminal on MT4 has a "swap" column on all my positions but the swap rates aren't listed there - why the hell not?

I've been doing this a while now and to be honest, it's the most ridiculously rigged market there is and I can handle that. But it is rather annoying that we seem to have to jump through a million hoops just to get some basic services.

I suppose I should be happy that my MT4 has an "app store" built into it, right? I won't lie, sometimes I wonder how anyone could take retail currency trading seriously. The tools they give us (or lack thereof) are largely a friggin' joke.
  • #2,344
  • Aug 26, 2014 4:28pm Aug 26, 2014 4:28pm
This should be of help. T.

Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Spread_Swap.mq4   4 KB | 355 downloads
  • #2,345
  • Aug 26, 2014 4:36pm Aug 26, 2014 4:36pm
Quoting toppo qqq
This should be of help. T. {file}
Thanks, T.
  • #2,346
  • Aug 26, 2014 4:45pm Aug 26, 2014 4:45pm
Quoting dare123
Good-day All, I choose to stop trading with stoploss. I now trade without stoploss. What do you think about trading without stoploss? and if you are currently trading this way or you have traded this way before, kindly share your experience.
What happened to risk management? You wanna be out of forex trading in no time, try this recipe of yours!
  • #2,347
  • Aug 26, 2014 6:52pm Aug 26, 2014 6:52pm
Guys, in average how many pips you have between orders?
  • #2,348
  • Aug 26, 2014 6:53pm Aug 26, 2014 6:53pm
Quoting toppo qqq
This should be of help. T. {file}
Awesummmmmm ... . Thanks!

Guess I just wasn't looking in the right place ... .
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
  • #2,349
  • Aug 26, 2014 7:02pm Aug 26, 2014 7:02pm
Quoting nc_trader
Guys, in average how many pips you have between orders?
You mean for your target price for a given entry?

For me it depends ... . If I am using pivot points, my entry is generally initially is at a particular level, with the target price being the opposite pivot level (e.g., sell at R3, TP at S3) (at least on initial entry). If I add to the position after initial entry, I generally set my TP at the opposite level or +10 pips for the net position, whichever is greater.

If I am using a directional grid in anticipation of trend continuation, then my grid levels are 10 pips apart. Solely for the purpose of demonstration, say that I anticipate that EUR/JPY will continue lower from 138.10. I set up my grid to sell at 138.00/TP 137.90, sell at 137.90/TP 137.8, sell at 137.8/TP 137.7, etc. all the way down to the last swing low or obvious support/resistance.
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
  • #2,350
  • Aug 26, 2014 7:52pm Aug 26, 2014 7:52pm
Quoting Bilstein
{quote} It annoys me that my broker (FXCM) doesn't post them on MT4. I have to use their Trading Station 2 platform to view the swap rates for all the pairs I trade. On top of that, TS2 only lets you subscribe to 20 symbols at a time unless you email them a request to unlock more. It's not a major thing but it is annoying. To me, whether it's a proprietary platform or MT4, there should be no reason that any and all information needed to do the job isn't available to us all the time on these platforms. It never made sense to me, retail currency trading...
The 20 pairs tops thing ticks me off as well ... . At the end of the New York close, I want to basically go through pairs of all of the pairs involving majors (AUD, EUR, CAD, CHF, GBP, JPY, NZD, and USD); there are more than 20 combos there. I don't want to have to go through a few pairs, then delete some out, and then add the remaining pairs in, then go back to the charts I want to additional analysis on, some of which I may have deleted out ... . Ugh. Totally retarded, cumbersome, and inefficient.

I imagine that it could have something to do with the fact that they don't want to devote additional server capacity to all of the bid/ask info that would be present were everyone to be tapping into all pair price info at the same time, but criminy, spend a little bit of my spread on upgrading your server capacity; you certainly get plenty of it with the number of trades I do a month.

Also, FXCM's investment in its Mirror Trader platform is a waste of money. The charting is virtually useless and the platform bogs down substantially if you have more than a handful of positions or entry orders open. The only thing I use it for now is to generate my equity curve, and I can generally only do this after the market closes on Friday. Better money could be spent scrapping that additional platform and incorporating what little the Mirror Trading platform has to offer (virtually nothing) completely into Trading Station.

At some point I will get off my ass and research other brokers with more user-friendly features and tools and more opaque disclosure regimes. Rollover/swap costs are one of those things that should be up-front, apparent, and incapable of misinterpretation, especially for novice traders that are unused to the concept. Burying it in some "Rollover Calendar" with somewhat arcane rules as to when a rollover is assessed and providing virtually nonexistent education concerning the manner in which adverse rollover can dramatically affect your profit is concerning.
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
  • #2,351
  • Aug 26, 2014 8:03pm Aug 26, 2014 8:03pm
Oh, for reference, if you try to use "swap monitor" indicators on FXCM's MT4 it displays 00's. Learned that one a while ago.
  • #2,352
  • Aug 26, 2014 8:24pm Aug 26, 2014 8:24pm
Quoting nc_trader
Guys, in average how many pips you have between orders?
my methodology considers the market very dynamic, so, this is never the same, but here's some basis:

I generally have two zones, buy and sell with a "gap" I consider "no trade land".

The size of both of those zones changes every day, so, for example sake, when I see the sell zone entered, I'll take a look at a stochastic on many timeframes to gauge how far into the particular zone we might reach. Do I always get this right? Nope. many times I'm a little early on initial entry, but it's the smallest entry, or what I like to call my "in the game" trade - if the market moves against me on this trade, ok, no problem. I calculate the total range of the zone I'm working in, look carefully at my maximum lot size to maintain margin use under a certain % then layout how I'll add those trades in across that zone. This process can take a few days to accomplish sometimes, but while this is happening, my target range is developing more clarity.

Make sense? Feel free to ask questions. As crazy as it sounds, my zones develop based on entering 30m opens into a spreadsheet and logging reversal targets based on the high and low opens of the day. I log those targets and keep up with when they are hit. Last I looked, my AVERAGE time to these targets, or entry points is running about 11 days. I'm doing this on two pairs currently - AUD/USD and GBP/AUD. I just started doing this with GBP/AUD and the results are promising so far and I look for them to get better.
"Holy Grail" exists - accepting where is the first step.
  • #2,353
  • Aug 26, 2014 11:53pm Aug 26, 2014 11:53pm
Here is a swap monitor I use on my screen. Gives swap, spreads, price, and distance from the 240 MA line. You can see it in the upper right hand corner.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: USDJPY.mH1.png Size: 63 KB
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 10.6 MARKET INFO V.3.1.mq4   18 KB | 694 downloads
  • #2,354
  • Aug 27, 2014 2:39am Aug 27, 2014 2:39am
Thanks for the indicator Bob.


I have been shorting the GBP/TRY for a few months now mainly because the sell swap rate was 65.
I just added your indicator and see pepperstone have reduced it to 40, not sure when that happened.
  • #2,355
  • Aug 27, 2014 3:22am Aug 27, 2014 3:22am
Quoting Rtm
{quote} Very doable this is where I was not that long ago, although Im past that now hopefully some motivation for what it can be like the power of trading here is my profit for average day. Lots of wise people in this thread glad to have been a part since the beginning! {image}
Hi Rtm,
studying your screen you are dealing around the clock. So you are using an EA, right?
Have a nice day
  • #2,356
  • Aug 27, 2014 3:54am Aug 27, 2014 3:54am
Quoting ZebraSquirl
{quote} The one thing I have taken away from all my "old school" reading (and something that we've probably beaten to death here and then beaten some more) is adhering to maximum exposure rules. The general rule of thumb is never expose yourself to more than 10 x equity for all your open positions and certainly never ever trade to the extent that a margin call is even remotely on the horizon.
Hi ZebraSquirl and all,
please allow a newbie to ask:
If trading with a micro-lot account (0,01 lot=1000 units) one pip in price means about 0,10 Euro($ similar).
Than an Equity of 500 Euro (Dollar) x 10= 5000 units.
If I understood right your rule of thump its only allowed/save to trade maximum 5x0,01 lot?
So if price moves against my 5 positions opened with 0,01 lot (or 1 position opened with 0,05 lot) than 100 pips against my account=-50,-€/$=
10% of equity. This is what you want to say by this?
Thanks a lot to you all for this established and helpful thread.
Have a nice day
  • #2,357
  • Aug 27, 2014 4:08am Aug 27, 2014 4:08am
Quoting doerpn
{quote} Hi Rtm, studying your screen you are dealing around the clock. So you are using an EA, right?
haha EURUSD and GBPUSD for me are traded via EA but I still watch majors and focus on Pacific lately but I typically don't sleep much! Definitely not your 7 hours per day normal. More like little naps throughout as I usually like to trade as many sessions as I can. Usually miss late us Asia though to sleep
All posts are my personal opinion
  • #2,358
  • Aug 27, 2014 4:13am Aug 27, 2014 4:13am
Quoting ZebraSquirl
{quote} I use FXCM, so your broker may differ, but here is a screen shot of the "Advanced Dealing Rate" for GBP/NZD: {image} On the left, you'll see a field that says "RollS: .89"; on the right a field that says "RollB: -1.97". "RollS" refers to the rollover/swap charge if you sell the pair; "RollB" refers to the rollover/swap charge if you buy the pair. The swap for this pair on either the buy or the sell side is huge, especially if you compare it to a pair like EUR/USD (currently .06 on the sell/-.13 on the buy). This is pretty much why I will...
Thanks a lot
Have a nice day
  • #2,359
  • Aug 27, 2014 4:33am Aug 27, 2014 4:33am
Quoting Rtm
{quote}haha EURUSD and GBPUSD for me are traded via EA but I still watch majors and focus on Pacific lately but I typically don't sleep much! Definitely not your 7 hours per day normal. More like little naps throughout as I usually like to trade as many sessions as I can. Usually miss late us Asia though to sleep
Ah, ok .....if getting less than 6-6,5 hours for more than 3 days in a row I`ll be intolerably and grumpy....
Would you like to tell more about your EA? Only closing trades in profit? Using grids?
Thanks and have a nice trading day
Have a nice day
  • #2,360
  • Aug 27, 2014 4:49am Aug 27, 2014 4:49am
Quoting doerpn
{quote} Ah, ok .....if getting less than 6-6,5 hours for more than 3 days in a row I`ll be intolerably and grumpy.... Would you like to tell more about your EA? Only closing trades in profit? Using grids? Thanks and have a nice trading day
Its all a fine balance my friend. I sleep 12 hours on weekend.


EAs are both a grid martingale system that uses veryyy low leverage with high balance so I will always have nice consistent gains that give me a good paycheck every month
All posts are my personal opinion
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