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Bad trader or real scam?

  • #1
  • First Post: Aug 20, 2014 10:54pm Aug 20, 2014 10:54pm
Hi all,

My friend know a good currency trader then decide to give him the management of his account. (He open his account in a well known forex broker F___.com)
Account start from 320k usd then reach 454k (gain +134k) in 15 days.
He deposit 466k more in his account to reach 920k, 1 month later account reach 1407k (gain +487k).
He deposit 961k more in his account to reach 2368k.

2 months later, account turn down to 250k.

My question is :
Can this trader and the broker associated to scam my friend ?

Thanks for all for comments and ideas
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Balance.jpg Size: 67 KB
  • #2
  • Aug 20, 2014 11:00pm Aug 20, 2014 11:00pm
A non profitable trader isn't necessary a scam ...
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #3
  • Aug 20, 2014 11:33pm Aug 20, 2014 11:33pm
Sorry to hear about your friend's money. I'd be talking to the authorities on this one, not a forum.

It's entirely possible it was a scam or the manager was holding onto huge amounts of unrealized losing trades. Either way, it's not nice.
  • #4
  • Aug 20, 2014 11:36pm Aug 20, 2014 11:36pm
Quoting TradeDream
Sorry to hear about your friend's money. I'd be talking to the authorities on this one, not a forum. It's entirely possible it was a scam or the manager was holding onto huge amounts of unrealized losing trades. Either way, it's not nice.
Hi TradeDream,

What do u mean by "authorities" ?
  • #5
  • Aug 20, 2014 11:36pm Aug 20, 2014 11:36pm
The first question that comes to me is:
Why was he adding to the account??
Due diligence would have been to withdraw funds (profits) from time to time and invest it in other less risky enterprises.
Sounds like he has poor money management and possibly greed issues.
He should be able to get details of the trades done so that he can check for himself.
Cheers, H
  • #6
  • Aug 20, 2014 11:41pm Aug 20, 2014 11:41pm
Quoting tommy64
Hi all, My friend know a good currency trader then decide to give him the management of his account. (He open his account in a well known forex broker F___.com) Account start from 320k usd then reach 454k (gain +134k) in 15 days. He deposit 466k more in his account to reach 920k, 1 month later account reach 1407k (gain +487k). He deposit 961k more in his account to reach 2368k. 2 months later, account turn down to 250k. My question is : Can this trader and the broker associated to scam my friend ? Thanks for all for comments and ideas {image}
It may not be a scam but a huge loss.
  • #7
  • Aug 20, 2014 11:43pm Aug 20, 2014 11:43pm
The big lose happen in 1 day !!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Balance02.jpg Size: 59 KB
  • #8
  • Aug 20, 2014 11:45pm Aug 20, 2014 11:45pm
Quoting Aich
The first question that comes to me is: Why was he adding to the account?? Due diligence would have been to withdraw funds (profits) from time to time and invest it in other less risky enterprises. Sounds like he has poor money management and possibly greed issues. He should be able to get details of the trades done so that he can check for himself. Cheers, H
We have already check every trade and nothing unormal was found.
The trader never make withdraw from this account
  • #9
  • Aug 20, 2014 11:45pm Aug 20, 2014 11:45pm
Quoting FerruFx
A non profitable trader isn't necessary a scam ...
lol
  • #10
  • Aug 20, 2014 11:53pm Aug 20, 2014 11:53pm
Quoting tommy64
{quote} We have already check every trade and nothing unormal was found. The trader never make withdraw from this account
If you have done this, why are you asking the question. It should be quite obvious what has happened to the money - if reasonable account keeping practice are used.
ie., the trader your friend used was not a complete idiot.
Sorry to say that if you or the original owner of the money cannot work this out you should not be trading - or even allowed to buy lollies at the local shop!!
  • #11
  • Edited 12:28am Aug 21, 2014 12:12am | Edited 12:28am
Quoting tommy64
Hi all, My friend know a good currency trader then decide to give him the management of his account. (He open his account in a well known forex broker F___.com) Account start from 320k usd then reach 454k (gain +134k) in 15 days. He deposit 466k more in his account to reach 920k, 1 month later account reach 1407k (gain +487k). He deposit 961k more in his account to reach 2368k. 2 months later, account turn down to 250k. My question is : Can this trader and the broker associated to scam my friend ? Thanks for all for comments and ideas {image}
Somehow I would like to believe this is real; but I doubt it very much.
Who, in his right mind, would want to put 2.3 million in a spot forex account ?
Anyhow, the result seems to be better than most ...
  • #12
  • Edited 1:03am Aug 21, 2014 12:14am | Edited 1:03am
be caution
  • #13
  • Aug 21, 2014 12:23am Aug 21, 2014 12:23am
It could be a bad trader and it could be a scam it depends on many things
all have a nice day
focus while relaxed to see better
  • #14
  • Aug 21, 2014 12:48am Aug 21, 2014 12:48am
Quoting tommy64
Hi all, My friend know a good currency trader then decide to give him the management of his account. (He open his account in a well known forex broker F___.com) Account start from 320k usd then reach 454k (gain +134k) in 15 days. He deposit 466k more in his account to reach 920k, 1 month later account reach 1407k (gain +487k). He deposit 961k more in his account to reach 2368k. 2 months later, account turn down to 250k. My question is : Can this trader and the broker associated to scam my friend ? Thanks for all for comments and ideas {image}
well, the graph looks correct.

i think i know what happened.. it is called unrealized profits/ losses.

the trader only closed winning orders to get the account profitable. any losing orders he did not close, so your friend would not see the losses.

then, maybe your friend got margin called on all the losses, and all losing orders got closed at once. account destroyed.

the trader must have made a lot off of the commissions, if it was lot based or per trade commission. the trader must have made a lot less than what your friend lost, but it seems like what happened...
  • #15
  • Aug 21, 2014 12:48am Aug 21, 2014 12:48am
Based on the dates on the performance graph all these happened about a year ago in 2013... Why does it matter NOW...?

Also, the appearance of the graph looks more like a backtest than a real account performance...
  • #16
  • Aug 21, 2014 1:10am Aug 21, 2014 1:10am
Quoting forks
{quote} well, the graph looks correct. i think i know what happened.. it is called unrealized profits/ losses. the trader only closed winning orders to get the account profitable. any losing orders he did not close, so your friend would not see the losses. then, maybe your friend got margin called on all the losses, and all losing orders got closed at once. account destroyed. the trader must have made a lot off of the commissions, if it was lot based or per trade commission. the trader must have made a lot less than what your friend lost, but it...
The column name is "Balance" not "Unrealized profits/losses"
  • #17
  • Aug 21, 2014 1:23am Aug 21, 2014 1:23am
Quoting tommy64
{quote} The column name is "Balance" not "Unrealized profits/losses"
exactly.. the Unrealized profits/losses does not show up on the Balance.

just ask your friend, the contract he signed with the trader, how much commission he was paying the trader?

i bet the trader let your friend lose 2 million, just so the trader could make 10,000 or whatever amount for himself.

that's the only way money was made off this "scam" . not by the broker, the broker was not part of this scam, but whether or not the broker is a scam itself is another topic... i'm sorry to hear about this type of shit that goes on in the FX industry.
  • #18
  • Aug 21, 2014 1:23am Aug 21, 2014 1:23am
Quoting forks
{quote} well, the graph looks correct. i think i know what happened.. it is called unrealized profits/ losses. the trader only closed winning orders to get the account profitable. any losing orders he did not close, so your friend would not see the losses. then, maybe your friend got margin called on all the losses, and all losing orders got closed at once. account destroyed. the trader must have made a lot off of the commissions, if it was lot based or per trade commission. the trader must have made a lot less than what your friend lost, but it...
This explanations looks very realistic. So at first you should to know what is the method which was used to build the graph. In case it was only the results of closed positions, the graph doesn't show the real history of the account. The most correct method is when each point of the graph represents the account balance plus unrealised P/L of all opening positions and such graph usually looks more volatility than the one you attached here.
  • #19
  • Aug 21, 2014 1:26am Aug 21, 2014 1:26am
2,000,000 in account.. say leverage 100:1
so trader can trade 200,000,000 USD or 2,000 lots.
if the commission arranged with your friend was for, say, 10 pips/ trade or 10 pips/lot (it's possible, seeing how much he made your friend at first).

then he would have made 10pip x 2,000 lots = 200,000 USD. (just by this calculation)

anyways, ask him to refund any commission he made to your friend. then you will see if it's scam or just bad trader.
  • #20
  • Aug 21, 2014 1:46am Aug 21, 2014 1:46am
the trader must have had hedged positions in the market. this means...he was just closing the winning trades and hedging the losing trades.. this makes the balance grow but equity declines..finally equity falls so much despite balance growing ... thus margin call...

sorry for the loss..
practising coitus interruptus
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