DON'T trade Udine's 00 level Strategy | Page 11 | Forex Factory

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DON'T trade Udine's 00 level Strategy

  • #201
  • Aug 12, 2014 5:26pm Aug 12, 2014 5:26pm
Quoting TooSlow
{quote} Why not? Udine is the one who failed to give credit where credit is due.

So, let me understand...you're reason for agreeing that people should not trade Udine's method, is that he did not give credit to the coder of the signals?

Udine did state that he did not invent the system, and i would be pretty interested to hear who was the FIRST to use bias...that idea in one form or another has been around for so long, I doubt we can pinpoint the original thought.

Udine put forth HIS interpretation of an idea. The indicator still bears the logo of TRO, so it's clear he did not code it. What does it matter? Loads of people on this, and other forums share indicators...and not all of them reference the inventor every single time they post it. Not really a reason to not trade the system is it?
Also the rumpled one, in his video complaining about Udine's thread, states that he himself modified another persons indicator, and the other person got mad...so don't his complaints seem a little hypocritical?


As for the proof you, and others seem to require; i have said personally for me, i don't care to see them. I don't care if he makes 50% weekly. I care if I can make it work for me.
He is not selling anything.
He has not asked for anything.
He shared an idea, and he is also taking the time to help others apply it. If we don't like it, nor find it useful then we have the right to move on.
So what is the complaint?

I have read your thread. I find it interesting you link to Udine's post for indicators by the way...why don't you link to the creators if you find Udine's plagiarism so distasteful?
Your rules to me are more vague than the ones laid out by Udine. Take profit when the price "stops moving?" If that is not discretionary then nothing is.
That being said i hope it is profitable for you.
But i don't see any profit/loss statement showing all trades from you either? Nor do i see you post clearly defined pendings or manual entry points before they come?
And i would love to hear how you mathematically prove your version of this, when you exit the trade when "it stops moving?"
I could be wrong. But your way is not for me.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #202
  • Aug 12, 2014 6:38pm Aug 12, 2014 6:38pm
Quoting TooSlow
{quote} No, didn't reply to wrong post by mistake. No, didn't attempt to debunk roulette math. Hanover, I have no quarrel with you at all. Udine is the one who failed to provide proof either with math, statistics or profit/loss statement showing all trades, let alone give credit to the person who coded indicators and taught the H1/D1 bias years ago.
And I have no quarrel with either you or Udine. But when I post about something completely different, you keep bringing Udine's name up, as if you're trying to persuade me to accept your view. Please excuse me, but I have no desire to be drawn into this kind of discussion.
  • #203
  • Aug 12, 2014 7:56pm Aug 12, 2014 7:56pm
Quoting tar
I am surprised by the flipping coins argument , as i said in another thread , coins flipping yes will give you 50/50 chance of tails or heads , but that doesn't mean that if you based your trading decisions on it it will be right 50% of the time ! I don't see the relation ! One thing has nothing to do with the other ! Trading has many variables involved . OK lets flip a coin to bet if its going to snow tomorrow i am sure that way i will be right 50% of the time !!!
i interested to this coin flip theory. Made me remember Some One said before :

 

  1. I want you to do the following on a demo account:

    1) Toss a coin: Heads long, Tails short
    2) Manage the trade as you see fit. If you think the trade is bad, exit.
    3) When you exit a trade, go back to step 1.

    If you can double your account in less than 50 flips, I consider you a good enough trader to go live.

I think The coin is not the issue like system but the trader is. ( Although I didn't made this level ) ^^

  • #204
  • Aug 13, 2014 12:38am Aug 13, 2014 12:38am
pj9999
Put your money where your mouth is champ & show your trading history.
  • #205
  • Aug 13, 2014 1:48am Aug 13, 2014 1:48am
Quoting FxSaint
{quote} Proven methods are documented here / here / here / here & here & good traders who have such proven methods are here / here...
Hi saint... the question is... are the methods proven to have a statistical edge, so do A+B+C and get outcome D....or are the traders intuitively adding in some reading of the overall market condition that adds a fundamental reason why they are more often than not winning.
tradewith60
  • #206
  • Aug 13, 2014 2:41am Aug 13, 2014 2:41am
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} Hi saint... the question is... are the methods proven to have a statistical edge, so do A+B+C and get outcome D....or are the traders intuitively adding in some reading of the overall market condition that adds a fundamental reason why they are more often than not winning.

If you ask me personally than I would definitely agree that its not 100% statistical like A+B+C is always D, because trading is not profession like doctors its more like artists. So as very good artist spontaneously adds some extras to his work at the given time, every good traders do have some sort of intuitiveness in their trading. Thats why I dont believe teaching to & learning from others as it is to its core, because its not workable. Same as this thread, Udines 00 level is working for some & not working for some, same method & some are successful & some are unsuccessful why ?? reason is trader himself. So you have to take good system learn from others about it & understand it & make necessary adjustment as per your character as trader, as per your skills set & as per your understanding of market & lastly as per your intuitiveness in trading. All I can say is technical trading is basic frame work of one form of trading, you need artistic thingy in you to be successfully implement it. But I will say it definitely has edge more that 50-50, maybe 70-30. And not many have kept things as simple as you 60minuteman, you are rare
Risk / Trade Management is the name of the Game
  • #207
  • Aug 13, 2014 3:00am Aug 13, 2014 3:00am
Quoting FxSaint
{quote} If you ask me personally than I would definitely agree that its not 100% statistical like A+B+C is always D, because trading is not profession like doctors its more like artists. So as very good artist spontaneously adds some extras to his work at the given time, every good traders do have some sort of intuitiveness in their trading. Thats why I dont believe teaching to & learning from others as it is to its core, because its not workable. Same as this thread, Udines 00 level is working for some & not working for some, same method & some...
Agree 100%... also too little emphasis is given too how and why we make the decisions we do in the face of uncertainty. I personally have improved my trading by nothing more than questioning my feelings when I need to make a decision.
tradewith60
  • #208
  • Aug 13, 2014 3:14am Aug 13, 2014 3:14am
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} Agree 100%... also too little emphasis is given too how and why we make the decisions we do in the face of uncertainty. I personally have improved my trading by nothing more than questioning my feelings when I need to make a decision.
That's interesting 60MM I would like to hear more of that. PM me if you like rather than clutter up the thread.
  • #209
  • Aug 13, 2014 4:01am Aug 13, 2014 4:01am
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} Agree 100%... also too little emphasis is given too how and why we make the decisions we do in the face of uncertainty. I personally have improved my trading by nothing more than questioning my feelings when I need to make a decision.
Feelings = Intuitiveness
I personally tried to explain importance of intuitiveness in trading by starting thread here in FF, but not continued it due to time constraint & also due to lack of my competency to put things in organised aspect. But I have plan to continue it in future, lets see.
Risk / Trade Management is the name of the Game
  • #210
  • Aug 15, 2014 12:30pm Aug 15, 2014 12:30pm
Quoting trader34
{quote} So, let me understand...you're reason for agreeing that people should not trade Udine's method, is that he did not give credit to the coder of the signals? Udine did state that he did not invent the system, and i would be pretty interested to hear who was the FIRST to use bias...that idea in one form or another has been around for so long, I doubt we can pinpoint the original thought. Udine put forth HIS interpretation of an idea. The indicator still bears the logo of TRO, so it's clear he did not code it. What does it matter? Loads of people...
No, my reply was to the question why protest about Udine. When you post an indicator then you are giving people permission to use it.
When someone modifies it and doesn't give you credit, that is a reason to complain. TRO didn't do that. When someone posts an indicator on one site and says not to post it anywhere else and someone does that, that is a reason to complain. I posted the link to Udine's thread to show the violation. Furthermore, Udine is allowing people to post decompiled code on his thread. That is a big No No.
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #211
  • Aug 15, 2014 12:32pm Aug 15, 2014 12:32pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} And I have no quarrel with either you or Udine. But when I post about something completely different, you keep bringing Udine's name up, as if you're trying to persuade me to accept your view. Please excuse me, but I have no desire to be drawn into this kind of discussion.
You posted in this thread. I was using your post to illustrate a point. You misunderstood. You are excused.
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #212
  • Aug 15, 2014 12:33pm Aug 15, 2014 12:33pm
Quoting pj9999
Anyone who thinks that Udine,s 00 level strategy is going to make them profitable may be in for a tough ride.... reasons below: 1. There seems to be a lot of ambiguity surrounding his rules for trading the system, for example Udine made it clear that people needed to follow the rules as posted in page 1 however as some people started to lose money trading his system Udine stated that there was more to it than just sticking to the rules. 2. risk reward is terrible=lose $10 to win $5 minus spread &commission....leaves an average risk/reward of lose...
It is nice to see you are no longer suspended pj9999. Please continue...
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #213
  • Aug 16, 2014 3:17am Aug 16, 2014 3:17am
if the 00 strategy was profitable everyone trading it would be millionaires...maybe udine has made consistent profits but id very much doubt it
  • #214
  • Aug 16, 2014 5:10am Aug 16, 2014 5:10am
Quoting pj9999
if the 00 strategy was profitable everyone trading it would be millionaires...maybe udine has made consistent profits but id very much doubt it
Hold on, you stated in an earlier post you turned a 340% profit in 8 months, 5k to 22k....come on, if anyone should be a millionaire, it should be you very soon. With Udine's method, projected gains are 10% weekly....no where near your astounding performance.

This is another redundant point from you.

I still see nothing in your arguments, you have not provided anything other than criticism of another whom you disagree with. You are within your rights to disagree but it doesn't mean you are right. As has been repeated in this thread, some will like it, others won't. It's not anyone's place to tell people what they should and shouldn't do, it is for the individual to decide.

If your results are so good, why even concern yourself with some monkey on FF? And please don't give us the "save the newbies crusade" argument, as it has been well and truly disproved.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #215
  • Aug 16, 2014 10:40am Aug 16, 2014 10:40am
Quoting trader34
{quote} ...You are within your rights to disagree but it doesn't mean you are right. As has been repeated in this thread, some will like it, others won't. It's not anyone's place to tell people what they should and shouldn't do, it is for the individual to decide....
I agree with your statement.

+1
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #216
  • Aug 16, 2014 10:43am Aug 16, 2014 10:43am
Quoting pj9999
if the 00 strategy was profitable everyone trading it would be millionaires...maybe udine has made consistent profits but id very much doubt it
pj9999, that is logically fallacious. Besides, strategies are profitable, traders are. Compare trading to chess. If everyone learn's the moves, then they would all be grandmasters. We know that is not true.

You should be allowed to continue this thread and post your warnings to others for the same reason Udine is allowed to continue his thread.
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #217
  • Aug 16, 2014 12:01pm Aug 16, 2014 12:01pm
Quoting trader34
{quote} Hold on, you stated in an earlier post you turned a 340% profit in 8 months, 5k to 22k....come on, if anyone should be a millionaire, it should be you very soon. With Udine's method, projected gains are 10% weekly....no where near your astounding performance. This is another redundant point from you. I still see nothing in your arguments, you have not provided anything other than criticism of another whom you disagree with. You are within your rights to disagree but it doesn't mean you are right. As has been repeated in this thread, some...
i did say the my system stopped working
  • #218
  • Aug 16, 2014 12:26pm Aug 16, 2014 12:26pm
Quoting Tinytrader
{quote} i interested to this coin flip theory. Made me remember Some One said before : I want you to do the following on a demo account: 1) Toss a coin: Heads long, Tails short 2) Manage the trade as you see fit. If you think the trade is bad, exit. 3) When you exit a trade, go back to step 1. If you can double your account in less than 50 flips, I consider you a good enough trader to go live. I think The coin is not the issue like system but the trader is. ( Although I didn't made this level ) ^^

Yes i remember that (probably some older members do as well) it was the member Ronald Raygun, claimed to have turned $200 to $250k the first year of live trading.

I've forgotten the posts/threads but he really did believe his coin toss practice contributed greatly towards his astounding trading results. If you search the forum you might find his old posts about the coin toss exercise
  • #219
  • Aug 17, 2014 6:41pm Aug 17, 2014 6:41pm
Quoting pj9999
{quote} i did say the my system stopped working
I thought your old system stopped, but the new one, the one from the London connection that yielded these results was still active?

Quoting pj9999
6.5 years and turned 50k into 460k then lost it all via both my system failing and living the high life for two year blew almost everything,had Learned everything from all indicators to support and resistance,risk management you name it...The last eight months my account grew from 5k to 22 k via information from an old friend who trades in London... Basically the system involves horizontal lines however he stressed R/R was the real secret and for that reason i started this tread to warn people that his system wont work over time even when used discretionary.....you...
From this quote i didn't see any reference to the new one not working?

Anyway, it is none of my business. Honestly i wish you success in your trading, but still, these statements about Udine's followers should all be millionaires is ridiculous, and I'm sure you know that really.

Also, I'd like to draw attention to the last part of the above quote, about raising the stakes.
It is a fact of any system, that if you compound gains then you are exposed to bigger proportional losses if and when the system starts to fail or under perform.
There are ways to tackle this using money management, but you can never fully negate it.
I for one do not compound daily, or even weekly with any new idea. I prefer to keep the same position size for all trades until month's end. If i see positive results, i will increase the risk according to the new balance for that next month. I do this until i am as confident as i can be that i am applying the rules correctly (for me) and that the results are positive. After that, i will compound weekly, or daily depending on the potential for consecutive losses.

Udine doesn't mention money management at all in his thread, aside from stating his own risk. But we don't know his account size. So, again it is up to us to apply our own preferences.

I still nothing other than sour grapes here. Udine didn't lay out a bible, he shared an idea, one of many on this forum.
You were free to apply it, or not.
You voiced your opinions on the thread, until you were ignored. It is clear that others have taken the idea on board, applied it in their own way, and are seemingly successful. Of course some are not, and have moved on.
So you are simply wrong to say that it categorically will not work. And you are definitely wrong to tell anyone what they should and should not do.

Interestingly, if you see the thread now, it has diverged so far away from Udine's starting point that it is becoming too muddled to follow! From currency pairs, to the very entries themselves, it's all showing that each trader will apply their own preferences when given any set of guidelines. So a discretionary approach is at the very core of all traders.
Whether it's right or wrong is actually irrelevant, and i don't see anyone there blaming the system when he/she takes a loss on a pair/entry that was not outlined in the original idea.

If you are looking for a one set fits all rule list, i fear you will be disappointed.
In fact, doesn't your experience with systems that work exceptionally well for a time, then break down tell you that this is true?! I wonder what would have happened if some discretionary filters were applied to your previous systems?
As iv'e said before, if there was a method that worked well, all the time, it would have been coded by now, and there would be no need for any of these trading discussions. We would all simply set and forget.

I'm not holding my breath for it....
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #220
  • Aug 20, 2014 11:46am Aug 20, 2014 11:46am
Quoting trader34
{quote} Interestingly, if you see the thread now, it has diverged so far away from Udine's starting point that it is becoming too muddled to follow! From currency pairs, to the very entries themselves, it's all showing that each trader will apply their own preferences when given any set of guidelines. So a discretionary approach is at the very core of all traders.
Whether it's right or wrong is actually irrelevant, and i don't see anyone there blaming the system when he/she takes a loss on a pair/entry that was not outlined in the original idea....
If only forex trends were as easy to identify as system thread trends... All systems with merit eventually get so muddled by others that they no longer bear semblance to the original.

Udine likes to compare trading to business. Here's some food for thought: There are three primary ways of making money in entrepreneurship. A business must be at least one of the following:

1. Innovative. A business captures profit by approaching a problem in a novel way. There is little to no existing competition, thus if the idea holds merit, there is an initial theoretical near-unlimited profit potential. Think Google.

2. Efficient: A business captures profit by making a step(s) in an overall process more effective than its competition does. Think Wal-Mart's supply chains.

3. Non-saturated: A business captures profit by emulating a preexisting, successful idea. Since an untapped market for x product/service still exists, the business makes money. Think the burger joint opening up right across from the other burger joint.

The problem is that the FF systems thread pushes people down the hopes of path # 3. The difference between path # 3 and what happens to people on FF:
A) People don't know how to run a business that doesn't fit their mentality effectively.
B) People don't love the work they do, therefore they don't respect the work required to run a business effectively, nor do they understand the subtleties of the business. They don't seek to improve constantly.
C) People refuse to think own their own. They refuse to approach trading with a probability and data-oriented mindset.

Udine's system works for Udine. He knows when and when not to trade it. He never gives an alternative impression, since he seems to post his trades consistently. I never bothered to read his whole thread, but the problem most people were having is the same problem you see with any other system on FF with merit: people want canned rules since they can't relate to a different system/don't want to work to relate to a different system. Trading is an independent profession. The best advice anyone can give you is to start thinking on your own. Stop taking the opinions of others and do your own work.

Unfortunately unsuccessful traders will always be sheep, so the systems forum trend will continue just like it always has.

Note: There are very few canned system out there who make good money in FX. Even those tend to review signals manually before entering trades. Automatic backtesting is much lazier and deadlier than testing bar-by-bar forward.
"Serenity, you sound like a frustrated Canadian living your life in the US"
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