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DON'T trade Udine's 00 level Strategy

  • #21
  • Aug 7, 2014 9:43am Aug 7, 2014 9:43am
Quoting Froyo12345
The problem may be that what is taught in the Udine Strategy was to follow the rules. As the markets changed, trades became more subjective. There are bonus trades which seem to make or break you in that system. Instead of teaching, you are told to follow the rules.
  • #22
  • Aug 7, 2014 9:45am Aug 7, 2014 9:45am
Quoting L0pg
{quote} No one need prove anything to you. If you cannot make his system work for you, move on and find one that does. My mentor has made a consistent 23% a month trading his system, has sat down with me, shown me his bank statements where he grew 10k into 160k. His statements from last tax season were seven figures. I cannot make his system work for me to save my life. I have tried and tried, but it simply doesn't "click" with me. Bank statements from someone else aren't going to make you successful.
who was your mentor?
  • #23
  • Aug 7, 2014 9:45am Aug 7, 2014 9:45am
Quoting FxMasterGuru
I support PJ9999's new thread. Simply by following the "rules" of 00 strategy, it is a total loser. I have created even an EA following the rules (incl. news filter, daily max. P&L, etc.) and it was a loser. The strategy needs LOTS of (i.e. TOO MANY) discretionary components (when NOT to trade the signals), which are extremely subjective and for most people this strategy gives only a MIRAGE of success. Of note: It MAY work well for Udine, but he is too shy to share his own signals with his crowd and groupies BEFORE trading them, so it remains a...
  • #24
  • Aug 7, 2014 9:48am Aug 7, 2014 9:48am
I started trading Udine's system a couple of weeks ago, and i am currently losing 16% of my account so far, despite the fact that Udine recommends to stay on demo until you get profitable, because i don't like demo. When i go back and analyse the losing trades though, i can see now why i shouldn't take those trades although they were by the rules and the more experience i get on the particular strategy the more i recognize a good trade when i see it. The point i want to make here is that you will not find any strategy that you will just follow some rules and be profitable. If you do then please share it with me. You need to gain the required experience to trade, you need to have a good understanding of price action, and you need to practice any strategy for quite some time until you master it. And in the end no one guarantees that you will ever become profitable. 95% of the traders are losing money and chances are that you or me are among them. Udine has shared a system, and he claims he is making profit from it and although i wish that he or the more experianced traders in the thread post the trades before hand, as this would save me some money, they don't and they have every right to do so. It's up to you and me to judge if this strategy is good or not. Bottom line is that Udine is not trying to get your money as he is not selling anything, so it's up to you and me to decide whether we trade with his strategy or not.

I hope that you find a strategy that suits you and become profitable!!

All the best!

Tony
  • #25
  • Aug 7, 2014 9:58am Aug 7, 2014 9:58am
Quoting trader34
pj9999, I think you are too hung up on the absolute rules. There is no such thing, in any method. If there was any mechanical system, that was consistently profitable, then it would be coded, and there would be no need for this discussion. I wish there was, but there is not. We all have to apply our own analysis. Surely discretion is nothing new to any experienced trader? As far as Udine's method goes, as mentioned in an early post, he is giving nothing new. His method is a modified version of an earlier one. In fact one of the indicators still...
He has really brainwashed you mate....come back to this tread when you have consistent profits for 6 months using the system...
I feel the start of his tread has really mislead rookie traders....thats my opinion and i don't think my argument is one bit flawed
  • #26
  • Aug 7, 2014 9:58am Aug 7, 2014 9:58am
Quoting L0pg
{quote} You clearly haven't read the first post of his thread. Where he states in no uncertain terms that he did not invent the system... The anger here is absurd.
Then give credit where credit is due.

In the word doc he takes credit for inventing the system.

We know who he stole the system from.
  • #27
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:00am Aug 7, 2014 10:00am
Quoting Froyo12345
{quote} Then give credit where credit is due. In the word doc he takes credit for inventing the system. We know who he stole the system from.
  • #28
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:02am Aug 7, 2014 10:02am
Quoting albchr
{quote} {quote} {quote} So let me get this straight here FX MASTER GURU , you couldn't create a "discretionary" EA so the system is no good?? Thanks for the chuckle. That's about the most laughable thing I've heard today.
Udines claim is that the system is not discretionary! One just needs to follow the rules.
If you don't follow the rules you are scolded.

I understand the anger.

Those bonus trades are discretionary.

Adding rules, like don't trade near the open 500 pages into the thread is discretionary.
Then being told use common sense, is discretionary.

Then follow the rules?
  • #29
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:03am Aug 7, 2014 10:03am
Is anyone on udine,s tread showing profit,and would anyone like to show proof??

people don't go on a mad rant,just asking a question
  • #30
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:20am Aug 7, 2014 10:20am
Give 10 people the holy grail and at least 8 of them will fail.
  • #31
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:20am Aug 7, 2014 10:20am
Quoting albchr
{quote} {quote} {quote} So let me get this straight here FX MASTER GURU , you couldn't create a "discretionary" EA so the system is no good?? Thanks for the chuckle. That's about the most laughable thing I've heard today.
@albchr

Honestly, Udine should have mentioned at the beginning of this thread: "Caution! It is a loser strategy. BUT, with appropriate discretionary input, you can profit from it". But he did not, so his comments about doubling his account twice using this strategy was simply MISLEADING. Why? Because using significant discretionary input, that is not the same strategy. Capice...??

Come on! With appropriate discretionary input I can make any FlipCoin strategy profitable.

Bottom line: the entire Level00 strategy (rules only) = flipping a coin. At best.

Yes, I am not a discretionary, but mechanical trader and I have made MUCH more profit with mechanical startegies than with Level00_B.S.

Good luck becoming rich by a "discretionary" strategy!
  • #32
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:24am Aug 7, 2014 10:24am
Quoting Froyo12345
{quote} Udines claim is that the system is not discretionary! One just needs to follow the rules. If you don't follow the rules you are scolded. I understand the anger. Those bonus trades are discretionary. Adding rules, like don't trade near the open 500 pages into the thread is discretionary. Then being told use common sense, is discretionary. Then follow the rules?
Udine has mentioned many times that he has been using discretion. So the first sentence is not true.

I have built an EA following the rules 100%. No discretion by the bot. No mistakes. In back and foward tests it was a loser. So I am thinking about reversing the signals, incl. R/R. 10 pips profit with 5 pips SL sounds immediately much better, doesn't it?
  • #33
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:27am Aug 7, 2014 10:27am
Quoting handy148
Give 10 people the holy grail and at least 8 of them will fail.
I think it's closer to 9.5 but hey, who's counting.
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #34
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:32am Aug 7, 2014 10:32am
Anybody who does not believe that a 100% mechanical stategy (i.e. no discretion!) can be consistently profitable, should look at this live account performance chart.

I wonder if Udine, or any of Udine's groupies can reproduce the stability of these results.

Stangely, no Level00 trader has ever had the courage to publish a MyFxBook performance chart. Guess why...?!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #35
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:35am Aug 7, 2014 10:35am
Quoting pj9999
{quote} He has really brainwashed you mate....come back to this tread when you have consistent profits for 6 months using the system... I feel the start of his tread has really mislead rookie traders....thats my opinion and i don't think my argument is one bit flawed
There is no brainwashing my friend...if you look, i have not posted more than twice on that thread, and for good reason. Frankly i don't care for the ins and outs of every traders experience with this idea, i only care how i can apply it. The on going thread is of little concern to me. I will selfishly pursue my own gains.

The thread has not been alive for 6 months, so i have not traded it that long, but as i stated, i AM profitable so far, Not as much as others, nor as much as i would like, but i can see value in the idea. That's my opinion. I will continue, and if you should so like, i will update my results.

Maybe you're right, and the first post of his thread did mislead some "rookie" traders...but really, what is the grand scheme here? Did he state that this is THE method we should all be trading? No. Reading a few pages into the thread and any trader can see where the discretionary element comes in. From pair selection to bonus trades, you can clearly see where the big difference is made, and where my profits differ from those posted by the creator.
Does this mean i should disregard the idea? Not in my opinion. And as far as rookie traders go, where is the harm in them demo trading this system? In no way does he advocate straight to live trading, for anyone.

He has clearly stated he invented nothing...he has laid out his interpretation of this idea...we are welcome to move along if we should decide it does not work for us. So, in that way i stand by my point, setting up a thread telling people not to trade this is a waste of time...he clearly stated that before you trade this live, double your demo account...i'm pretty sure none of us have done that.
So, on the one hand you state that the system will not work, but on the other, you have not applied it in the way the creator has stated. That is where i see the flaw. If this does not work, for you or any other, then it will come to light fairly quickly...but there are plenty of traders posting some decent results.
And the funny thing is, in this month, Udine has said he will not trade it...due to the adverse conditions...conditions we have seen (in regards to ATR's) for the last month or two.

I work with 3 other major systems, and they are all under performing at this time due to conditions...yet i am still positive on the 00 levels trading...to me that is enough for it to hold my interest. I have developed many systems in my trading career, and found that absolute adherence to mechanical rules only ends up in losses, or unacceptable draw downs. I believe a discretionary approach is the way forward...for me. Udine's method is just adding a string to my bow.

There are no absolutes here, only ideas, and if we are lucky we can apply them to be profitable. That is the goal at the end of the day. If Udine's thread is of no use to you, then by all means ignore it, but to say that it is useless to everyone is as misleading as anything else.

That's my only point...I wish you all the best in your trading
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #36
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:35am Aug 7, 2014 10:35am
Quoting FxMasterGuru
Anybody who does not believe that a 100% mechanical stategy (i.e. no discretion!) can be consistently profitable, should look at this live account performance chart. I wonder if Udine, or any of Udine's groupies can reproduce the stability of these results. Stangely, no Level00 trader has ever had the courage to publish a MyFxBook performance chart. Guess why...?! {image}

beautiful equity slope there man. I agree I think Udines strategy is a bit odd and is definitely not for newbies. I also think its odd that no one post any trade exploers for their trades.

also pj anything you read on this forum should be taken with a grain of salt.

I do agree though that the R:R ratio used is pretty radical in my opinion. I mean its worse than what binary options pay out!
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity
  • #37
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:37am Aug 7, 2014 10:37am
Quoting FxMasterGuru
{quote} @albchr Honestly, Udine should have mentioned at the beginning of this thread: "Caution! It is a loser strategy. BUT, with appropriate discretionary input, you can profit from it". But he did not, so his comments about doubling his account twice using this strategy was simply MISLEADING. Why? Because using significant discretionary input, that is not the same strategy. Capice...?? Come on! With appropriate discretionary input I can make any FlipCoin strategy profitable. Bottom line: the entire Level00 strategy (rules only) = flipping a coin....
I am currently testing 3 EA's. All of them based on the "rules" of how I trade manually. They do a very good job "for the most part" but they cannot, and never will be able to see things like data prints, market sentiment and a whole host of other variables that only a "discretionary eye" can see coming ahead of time. Last week's data prints sent the EA's into a tail spin rapidly. I did just fine manually.

An EA left to it's own devices will do fine so long as market conditions do not change from it's If/Then logic. But market changes happen quite often. Working "with" an EA using our own discretion will often be a great combination. But if you think over the long haul, an EA will make you rich? Show me one. I'd love to see it.

Anyway, sorry for butting in. I really have no desire to get caught up in this. My bad. ...

Use discretion and trade safely folks.
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #38
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:39am Aug 7, 2014 10:39am
Quoting pj9999
{quote}
Yes, we do.

He got it from TRO.

But does that really matter?

Only if you are mad that you cannot trade it.

I don't trade it either, one in and one out systems are going to get you killed, and that I have been taught a thing or two about EA's and backtesting, I definitely have to say that hard stops are how brokers take your money.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #39
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:40am Aug 7, 2014 10:40am
Quoting FxMasterGuru
Anybody who does not believe that a 100% mechanical stategy (i.e. no discretion!) can be consistently profitable, should look at this live account performance chart. I wonder if Udine, or any of Udine's groupies can reproduce the stability of these results. Stangely, no Level00 trader has ever had the courage to publish a MyFxBook performance chart. Guess why...?! {image}
Live or demo? Where's the "up to date" July and August results?

Actually ... lol ... never mind. Like I said I'm really not interested in getting involved here. Carry on folks.
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #40
  • Aug 7, 2014 10:40am Aug 7, 2014 10:40am
Quoting albchr
{quote} I am currently testing 3 EA's. All of them based on the "rules" of how I trade manually. They do a very good job "for the most part" but they cannot, and never will be able to see things like data prints, market sentiment and a whole host of other variables that only a "discretionary eye" can see coming ahead of time. Last week's data prints sent the EA's into a tail spin rapidly. I did just fine manually. An EA left to it's own devices will do fine so long as market conditions do not change from it's If/Then logic. But market changes happen...
"But if you think over the long haul, an EA will make you rich? Show me one."

Please see above. It is only the showcase account. The real monies are brewing on much larger accounts...
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