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Is trading really that hard?

  • #161
  • Jul 17, 2014 5:45am Jul 17, 2014 5:45am
Second the last post..and yes, getting hands on a good fx trading book ain't difficult, the difficult part lies in implementing what you have learnt..
  • #162
  • Jul 17, 2014 6:38am Jul 17, 2014 6:38am
I honestly believe that trader development is the biggest killer for most traders. Run into a roadblock and don't know how to continue? No-one ever talks about that stuff. Have been trading with a system for a while and don't know if it works? What then?

I really think it's easy for novice traders to lose their way, going nowhere for months and potentially years. Most won't make it through that.
  • #163
  • Jul 30, 2014 1:19am Jul 30, 2014 1:19am
Depends on which dog you are feeding, if you are feeding the dog that says trading is hard then it is hard, if you feed the dog that says trading is easy then it is easy but no matter what trading as all good things in life takes persistence.

trading is easy keeping the mind on track now that's a whole new conversation
  • #164
  • Jul 31, 2014 6:51am Jul 31, 2014 6:51am
Not its not hard, its actually very easy once you know what you are doing.

If you dont know what you are doing then its extremely hard, of course.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #165
  • Aug 2, 2014 3:48pm Aug 2, 2014 3:48pm
Draw an analogy with the retail trading world and especially forex with the phlogiston theory and all will become clear,
  • #166
  • Aug 2, 2014 4:11pm Aug 2, 2014 4:11pm
Quoting Mingary
Draw an analogy with the retail trading world and especially forex with the phlogiston theory and all will become clear,
Obviously the FX market wasnt meant for retail traders.

20-30 years ago there were no retailers on FX, since the minimum lot size was like 100.000 units , so only big guys could play here.The retailers only came here as the industry evolved, competition became more strong, and electronic trading began, and also brokers started lending money for small account guys in a leverage format.

If there were no leverage, then everyone would need a 10-50 million $ account to open 100.000$ positions to be only 2-3% of their acc.

So the retailers in a good analogy is like if you cram together a kindergarten, an elemental school, a high school and a college, and the retailers are the kindergarten small boys playing with fibonacci, stochastic, etc ,while the college boys, big muscular guys using the wast power of knowledge, technology and pure strength, in money, to beat the kindergarten guys who are defenseless.

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"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #167
  • Aug 2, 2014 5:11pm Aug 2, 2014 5:11pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} Obviously the FX market wasnt meant for retail traders. 20-30 years ago there were no retailers on FX, since the minimum lot size was like 100.000 units , so only big guys could play here.The retailers only came here as the industry evolved, competition became more strong, and electronic trading began, and also brokers started lending money for small account guys in a leverage format. If there were no leverage, then everyone would need a 10-50 million $ account to open 100.000$ positions to be only 2-3% of their acc. So the retailers in...
you're only focussing on the negative aspects of being relatively small in the market place. There are advantages also...
tradewith60
  • #168
  • Aug 2, 2014 5:35pm Aug 2, 2014 5:35pm
Quoting 60minuteman
There are advantages also...
There arent.

Now i already see what you will tell me, as i`m so good in forecasting ..., you would say that perhaps smaller trades can be executed quicker.

But i dont think thats an issue for a billionaire, i mean if you want to put a 200 million order in the FX market, just split your order across 10-15 pairs which are correlated and bingo.

Or just divide it into 100 x 2 million $ orders and put them on at a regular 1-2 min interval, this way you create a mini-trend, poor newbie retailers will buy into it, adding to its value, and then close all orders suddenly,creating a big downfall,but because you have an uber-fast institutional broker, you will be out quick (quicker than spread-widener shitty requote retail broker clients), and steal the money of those sucker retailers who cant exit quickly enought

It's pump and dump essentially.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #169
  • Aug 2, 2014 7:24pm Aug 2, 2014 7:24pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} There arent. Now i already see what you will tell me, as i`m so good in forecasting ..., you would say that perhaps smaller trades can be executed quicker. But i dont think thats an issue for a billionaire, i mean if you want to put a 200 million order in the FX market, just split your order across 10-15 pairs which are correlated and bingo. Or just divide it into 100 x 2 million $ orders and put them on at a regular 1-2 min interval, this way you create a mini-trend, poor newbie retailers will buy into it, adding to its value, and then...
Do you ever have problems getting your orders filled at the price you require?
tradewith60
  • #170
  • Aug 3, 2014 12:58am Aug 3, 2014 12:58am
you know what to do.. but greed and fear make the decisions hard ..imo..
  • #171
  • Edited 2:18am Aug 3, 2014 1:49am | Edited 2:18am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} Obviously the FX market wasnt meant for retail traders. 20-30 years ago there were no retailers on FX, since the minimum lot size was like 100.000 units , so only big guys could play here.The retailers only came here as the industry evolved, competition became more strong, and electronic trading began, and also brokers started lending money for small account guys in a leverage format. If there were no leverage, then everyone would need a 10-50 million $ account to open 100.000$ positions to be only 2-3% of their acc. So the retailers in...
There are retail traders in Futures and stocks also. The barrier to entry is a bit higher. It means it takes them a bit longer to lose all their money.
I think retail trading in Forex is no more than $ 1000.00 in account size.
And they are told it must be "money they can afford to lose", therefore they proceed to do just that (:
But whom does it really profit, surely the "big players" don't care about the retail trader. The only possible suspects are the dream merchants and the brokers. It's clear that forex is a the same stage as stock trading was until the 1930's -- massive proliferation of bucket shops.
  • #172
  • Aug 3, 2014 3:10am Aug 3, 2014 3:10am
Wow there are so many sweeping statements in the thread! I feel like adding some.

1) Trading is SIMPLE but not EASY (I think it might be harder than brain surgery. I wouldn't go and pay for the services of a surgeon if 90%+ of them "lost")

2) 20 to 30% pa is good. In fact unless you are a living legend, nearly impossible (I am talking with real significant sums of money, you know the size of hedge funds etc) That's why people who can achieve that get paid $100's of millions.

3) The reason you can get higher than that with less stress with a supermarket or was it a grocery store I can't remember, is because that game isn't nearly as scaleable as this one. You can't just decide to turn up the volume because things are going well. You can't after turning up the volume decide to close everything and go to cash.

4) Dr Hamer of New German Medicine was a nut job, actually. He believes chemotherapy is not given to people of the Jewish faith because it is a Jewish plot to poison the rest of the world.

5) Good luck with your studies Muhammad Ezz, I hope you become a successful surgeon but still decide to trade currencies.

Outta here!
  • #173
  • Aug 3, 2014 4:18am Aug 3, 2014 4:18am
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} Do you ever have problems getting your orders filled at the price you require?
Everyone does, unless you trade at an institutional broker, OR if your broker is a chop shop and runs a pyramid scheme,by not executing your orders in the market.

Quoting Mingary
{quote} There are retail traders in Futures and stocks also. The barrier to entry is a bit higher. It means it takes them a bit longer to lose all their money. I think retail trading in Forex is no more than $ 1000.00 in account size. And they are told it must be "money they can afford to lose", therefore they proceed to do just that (: But whom does it really profit, surely the "big players" don't care about the retail trader. The only possible suspects are the dream merchants and the brokers. It's clear that forex is a the same stage as stock...
Not really, the winner-loser percentage in other markets are much better.Its easier to trade stocks and futures, for stocks if you pick innovative stocks in a good economy (like now the US) a stock can easily 200x its value in a few months.So buy a few penny stocks for 1$ or so,even if you lose 80% of them the rest 20% will cover the losses 5x over.While the futures is really a no brainer, i mean one trader has to be an utterly idiot to lose in corn or oil futures, just look at the damn agriculture numbers and weather reports and he will do fine, or follow the CAD & oil demand in your country.

I think everyone can make it from a 100$ account to a billion, its not a matter of account size, i saw once a guy who turned a 50$ account into 250.000$ in half a month, and didnt took more risk than needed,it was risky of course, but not that risky as traders usually do, besides the total risk was only your initial deposit, so is 50$ worth risking for 250.000$ ? Hell yea.

I dont think its that much the fault of retail brokers, i mean they just do their business, its not like you could say that "people are obese because of the fast food chains", its nonsense, people are obese because they dont have self control over what they eat, its not MCDONALS's fault that people cant stop eating hamburgers, its the people's fault.

The same way if a guy decides he wants to lose 100.000$ by trying to become billionaire ,but never getting there, is not the brokers fault, its his fault.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #174
  • Aug 3, 2014 5:12am Aug 3, 2014 5:12am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} Everyone does, unless you trade at an institutional broker, OR if your broker is a chop shop and runs a pyramid scheme,by not executing your orders in the market. {quote} Not really, the winner-loser percentage in other markets are much better.Its easier to trade stocks and futures, for stocks if you pick innovative stocks in a good economy (like now the US) a stock can easily 200x its value in a few months.So buy a few penny stocks for 1$ or so,even if you lose 80% of them the rest 20% will cover the losses 5x over.While the futures is...
I get filled at the price I want all the time with an FSA regulated broker, you must have a very different experience of trading to me.
tradewith60
  • #175
  • Aug 3, 2014 5:19am Aug 3, 2014 5:19am
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} I get filled at the price I want all the time with an FSA regulated broker, you must have a very different experience of trading to me.
Is it a market maker, because either he will market execute at the available prices, thus giving you requote when the price level is not enough liquid.

Or instant execution, whereas if the level is not liquid, he takes the other side of the trade, creating a conflict of interest, so if not regulated enough, it might lead to nasty behaviour.

I prever market execution, as requotes are better than having a conflict with the broker...
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #176
  • Aug 3, 2014 9:22am Aug 3, 2014 9:22am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} Is it a market maker, because either he will market execute at the available prices, thus giving you requote when the price level is not enough liquid. Or instant execution, whereas if the level is not liquid, he takes the other side of the trade, creating a conflict of interest, so if not regulated enough, it might lead to nasty behaviour. I prever market execution, as requotes are better than having a conflict with the broker...
I have no issues like re-quotes or slippage and my spreads are fixed. From what I hear the 'states is just about the worst place on the planet to be a retail trader...
tradewith60
  • #177
  • Aug 3, 2014 9:50am Aug 3, 2014 9:50am
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} I have no issues like re-quotes or slippage and my spreads are fixed. From what I hear the 'states is just about the worst place on the planet to be a retail trader...
I`m not from US, but what i heard is that atleast regulation is good, i mean no chop shops there, however the FIFO shit and the 1:50 leverage is stupid in my opinion.But atleast the broker doesnt run with your money, if you are a good trader i think you can survive that, put that you also get the money wired to you in your bank account.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #178
  • Aug 3, 2014 12:59pm Aug 3, 2014 12:59pm
Think of "learning the market" as getting laid by a trashy woman.
Its easy, requires very little money and patience.

Think of "mastering the market" as locking down that high quality woman.
Takes patience, discipline, persistence, emotional stability... oh and more patience.

I think the reason people suck at trading is because they try to scalp without knowing where the market is going long term.
If you know where the market is going long term, day trading becomes easy. Very, very easy.
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #179
  • Aug 3, 2014 2:03pm Aug 3, 2014 2:03pm
In a word. Yes. Anything is hard if you don't stick with it though. Learning to ride a bike as a kid was hard, once you got it, it was like instinct. But stop riding that bike for a few years and see what happens
As long as you constantly keep up on the market and improve yourself, yeah, its hard, but each piece of information you assimilate and use makes it that much easier to you.
  • #180
  • Aug 3, 2014 2:39pm Aug 3, 2014 2:39pm
You can make trading unbelievably easy if you want, I don't do anything magical and I certainly haven't made millions yet but the I found the hardest thing is keeping calm in both winning and losing situations and the most important thing to do is to start really small.

When I started my max risk was £1-£2, you spend more than that on a cup of coffee, so losing a quid every now and again is nothing and slowly you build up over time, get used to losing money. Once you've learnt that you can start to think more clearly, logically and focus on outcomes, focus on strategically increasing your pot of money, not "wow how much could I win overnight".
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