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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #2,161
  • Aug 1, 2014 8:11am Aug 1, 2014 8:11am
Quoting Rap Skallion
{quote} Possibly: but I think a no stop loss method to be more so, given that you stay with long term trend, and have methodology in place to terminate losing trades in a reasonable fashion. My use of moving averages is quite different from that you propose. I would anticipate your stop losses would not be often executed or an actual part of the rest of your strategy. Cheers, Rap
Great to see you guys still teaching the way to success!
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #2,162
  • Aug 1, 2014 8:59am Aug 1, 2014 8:59am
The FIFO change is a pain in the butt. I had to deal with it a couple of years ago so I limit myself to one trade per pair. Around that time was when I increased my diversification to 28 pairs. Just recently, I started getting into the exotics. I was hesitant at first because the spreads were so wide but they typically come with tiny tick values like 0.08 or 0.16 which I can manage. Those are the guys you hang on to forever, lol.
  • #2,163
  • Aug 1, 2014 12:01pm Aug 1, 2014 12:01pm
I think I am slowly becoming more like you in my trading technique. That's a good thing
  • #2,164
  • Aug 1, 2014 12:51pm Aug 1, 2014 12:51pm
Quoting Bilstein
Those are the guys you hang on to forever, lol.
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #2,165
  • Aug 1, 2014 2:11pm Aug 1, 2014 2:11pm
Seriously, lol. With the exotics, some of the tick values are so low that those are the types of positions you can hold on to until they come back if they go against you. It's like, "trade goes against me 2,000 points? No biggie, it's $20.00".

*shrug*
  • #2,166
  • Aug 1, 2014 2:15pm Aug 1, 2014 2:15pm
Quoting Bilstein
Seriously, lol. With the exotics, some of the tick values are so low that those are the types of positions you can hold on to until they come back if they go against you. It's like, "trade goes against me 2,000 points? No biggie, it's $20.00". *shrug*

I find it hilarious because it hits so close to home!
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #2,167
  • Edited 9:10pm Aug 1, 2014 6:19pm | Edited 9:10pm
Quoting Rap Skallion
Weekly report: IBFX is going to enforce FIFO rules on Aug 3d.
I would like to know where you got this information. The link you provided did not mention this.
  • #2,168
  • Aug 1, 2014 7:40pm Aug 1, 2014 7:40pm
Quoting nanningbob
{quote} I would like to know where you go this information. The link you provided did not mention this.
I received an email from IBFX about a week ago....................
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: IBFX email.JPG Size: 118 KB
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #2,169
  • Aug 1, 2014 8:00pm Aug 1, 2014 8:00pm
Quoting mzvega
{quote} I received an email from IBFX about a week ago.................... {image}
This is nothing new, Oanda did this to me a long time ago. Just have to use different broker!
All posts are my personal opinion
  • #2,170
  • Aug 2, 2014 1:26am Aug 2, 2014 1:26am
Quoting dare123
{quote} Why is Trading Without Stoploss categorised as anti trading?
Well he said the same thing to me and I find it odd to say something like that , in my opinion whatever makes money for some is good with or without stop loss
  • #2,171
  • Aug 3, 2014 7:43am Aug 3, 2014 7:43am
Quoting nanningbob
{quote} Well said.
Thanks a lot for the detailed reply, a lot of information to take in.

I am using 400:1 leverage on a £12,000 live account. The swaps really are a pain.

I think the best way for me to see how lower leverage woks is to open a demo account and try perhaps 50:1.
  • #2,172
  • Aug 3, 2014 3:40pm Aug 3, 2014 3:40pm
Quoting Rtm
{quote} This is nothing new, Oanda did this to me a long time ago. Just have to use different broker!
FIFO's a pain in the ass. Not sure what the FIFO rules are trying to protect me from or how in particular they benefit anyone. It doesn't really provide any "transparency" or a "more accurate" P/L picture for me. I can plainly see what my P/L is at any given time in light of current open positions ... . I imagine, though, it's really for outsiders who are attempting to evaluate the P/L of a trader to whom they wish to give their money to trade. However, if I were doing that, I would naturally want to not only look at the trades that have closed (i.e., their profitability), but also any open trades the trader has to see whether the account is awash in red for open positions.
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
  • #2,173
  • Aug 3, 2014 3:43pm Aug 3, 2014 3:43pm
Quoting Bilstein
The FIFO change is a pain in the butt. I had to deal with it a couple of years ago so I limit myself to one trade per pair. Around that time was when I increased my diversification to 28 pairs. Just recently, I started getting into the exotics. I was hesitant at first because the spreads were so wide but they typically come with tiny tick values like 0.08 or 0.16 which I can manage. Those are the guys you hang on to forever, lol.
I'm more of a multiple position sort of guy. But, realizing that, the individual legs of my open positions have to be comparatively small.
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
  • #2,174
  • Aug 3, 2014 5:48pm Aug 3, 2014 5:48pm
Quoting ZebraSquirl
{quote} FIFO's a pain in the ass. Not sure what the FIFO rules are trying to protect me from or how in particular they benefit anyone. It doesn't really provide any "transparency" or a "more accurate" P/L picture for me. I can plainly see what my P/L is at any given time in light of current open positions ... . I imagine, though, it's really for outsiders who are attempting to evaluate the P/L of a trader to whom they wish to give their money to trade. However, if I were doing that, I would naturally want to not only look at the trades that have...
I see 2 things about FIFO. The NFA is controlled by traders who truly believe you should only do one trade at a time. They are out there and they are powerful group. In fact so powerful that they dont want to see smaller traders enter the market and want the close of retail Forex trading. Just slowly regulate it to death. So in a more world conspiracy thing the 2nd thing. They would consider Forex the domain of the very powerful and rich and the small guy needs to get out. If you read a news story last week USA regulators are now forcing themselves into the big foreign banks look for fraud, terrorist funding, and tax cheats among other things. The sticky hands of the FED is going overseas and I wish the foreign banks would just tell them to go the hell home.

To me the easiest solution is for Congress to do its job and not deficit spend and get spending under control. Then the FED wouldnt be so concerned where Americans are spending their money and how they are trading. Maybe some idiot in Washington thinks that long term DD is just another way of hiding income. LOL Anyway sorry for the political crap.
  • #2,175
  • Aug 3, 2014 7:57pm Aug 3, 2014 7:57pm
Quoting nanningbob
{quote} I see 2 things about FIFO. The NFA is controlled by traders who truly believe you should only do one trade at a time. They are out there and they are powerful group. In fact so powerful that they dont want to see smaller traders enter the market and want the close of retail Forex trading. Just slowly regulate it to death. So in a more world conspiracy thing the 2nd thing. They would consider Forex the domain of the very powerful and rich and the small guy needs to get out. If you read a news story last week USA regulators are now forcing...
I would agree with that ... . For one thing, I don't need to be babysat; I'm a grown boy. I don't need the government to tell me how I should spend my money, manage my investments, etc. I'll naturally pay the taxes on every cent I earn (begrudgingly). By the same token, I don't see why regulators are getting in the way of my earning money effectively or making it more complex ... . It would seem to me that it would actually benefit the government were I to be able to make money with greater ease because they would arguably be able to get more taxes from it. Ugh. Bass ackwards.
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
  • #2,176
  • Aug 3, 2014 8:36pm Aug 3, 2014 8:36pm
Dear dare123,

How long have you tried your trading method without SL?
I've been tried also those trade without SL..and I found that without SL, I get some profit..but... only 1 month..in the next month, I started hold position longer than before, and finally crashed---->> big loss! although I used hedge, average, and so on. So I think whatever method we used to trade, we have to realize how much money we can spend on trade..also realize that SL is one of method to protect us from being big losers..
  • #2,177
  • Aug 3, 2014 10:21pm Aug 3, 2014 10:21pm
Ibfx will not let you close a later trade: Attempt to do so is rejected with a FIFO error signal. Hence the strict version is in force. Hmmm...
  • #2,178
  • Aug 4, 2014 12:35am Aug 4, 2014 12:35am
Quoting teddybearsh
Dear dare123, How long have you tried your trading method without SL? I've been tried also those trade without SL..and I found that without SL, I get some profit..but... only 1 month..in the next month, I started hold position longer than before, and finally crashed---->> big loss! although I used hedge, average, and so on. So I think whatever method we used to trade, we have to realize how much money we can spend on trade..also realize that SL is one of method to protect us from being big losers..
To trade without a SL does not mean to hold onto trades ad infinitum. I do keep trading and though a pair may go into DD I still make profits on the retracements. I also follow the long term trend as shown on the monthly and weekly charts. As long as I see that long term trend I will hang in a group of trades. In other words there is a system behind the trading. Most traders dont know how to trade high end charts and get burned by not checking with them. I basically close trades when the direction changes but until then I will stay in there and ride a series of trades with the trend. For example the NZD basic fundamental is its high interest rate. So it will stay on the plus side but that doesnt stop a correction, like last week. I didnt close my trades but added to my buys as I wait for the long term UT to continue. So I have a reason to stay in a group of trades, not just, I am going to try a no SL trading. There is more to it than that. Traders who trade long term trends will stick with a trade much longer than others do because that is what long term trading is.
  • #2,179
  • Aug 4, 2014 12:35am Aug 4, 2014 12:35am
Quoting Rap Skallion
Ibfx will not let you close a later trade: Attempt to do so is rejected with a FIFO error signal. Hence the strict version is in force. Hmmm...

Got the same email.

Shame shame shame
  • #2,180
  • Aug 4, 2014 1:14am Aug 4, 2014 1:14am
Quoting ZebraSquirl
{quote} I would agree with that ... . For one thing, I don't need to be babysat; I'm a grown boy. I don't need the government to tell me how I should spend my money, manage my investments, etc. I'll naturally pay the taxes on every cent I earn (begrudgingly). By the same token, I don't see why regulators are getting in the way of my earning money effectively or making it more complex ... . It would seem to me that it would actually benefit the government were I to be able to make money with greater ease because they would arguably be able to get...

Guys one of my friends from US was trading with also a broker that applied recently FIFO rule, which in my opinion is BS, so I recommended him another broker company also from US but offshore regulated, if you guys want to try it out ( demo first ) just send me a PM and I will put you in contact with my friend there ( who is also the CEO of the company ). I will not post the company website here because I don't want to get in trouble for commercial/advertising but we can discuss it on skype.

Best Regards,
VladG
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