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  • #81
  • Jul 10, 2014 5:09pm Jul 10, 2014 5:09pm
If you know how to trade, higher risk is ok although I still wouldn't get crazy with it. If you don't, doesn't much matter what risk you use. You'll loose it all eventually anyway. The only difference is how fast.

On a demo it's easy to be a cowboy with no risk at all. Put some real hard earned cash in the game where loosing it means something and lets' see what's what then.

Just my 2 cents.
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #82
  • Jul 10, 2014 5:16pm Jul 10, 2014 5:16pm
Quoting Proximus
Few months ago i had a demo account where i made a 560% growth in 1 week, and now as i turned to safer money management and risk management BS now i`m struggling to make even 1%/day.F*ck that sh*t... As if the "safe way" with proper MM and Risk control is a total BS.I use now 3% max risk/ trade and 6% total risk/ account and look at my TRADE EXPLORER a complete disaster. It seems like the safe way is a complete BS, the only way to get rich from this business is to be a cowboy So i subscribe to you PoundTrader, tell them the truth...
it's ok if your account is small to go all in, as your account grows you have to know your system and when it's cool to go all in you can't do it on every trade sooner or later that will catch up to you
  • #83
  • Jul 10, 2014 5:18pm Jul 10, 2014 5:18pm
Quoting albchr
If you know how to trade, higher risk is ok although I still wouldn't get crazy with it. If you don't, doesn't much matter what risk you use. You'll loose it all eventually anyway. The only difference is how fast. On a demo it's easy to be a cowboy with no risk at all. Put some real hard earned cash in the game where loosing it means something and lets' see what's what then. Just my 2 cents.
agree, it has a lot to do with your understanding of your system and when it's cool to be a cowboy, you can't be a cowboy on every trade
  • #84
  • Jul 10, 2014 5:20pm Jul 10, 2014 5:20pm
ok as i look at the set-up all of them are 50/50 so i can sit out or take a risk of blowing everything
  • #85
  • Jul 10, 2014 5:24pm Jul 10, 2014 5:24pm
Quoting PoundTrader
{quote}it's ok if your account is small to go all in, as your account grows you have to know your system and when it's cool to go all in you can't do it on every trade sooner or later that will catch up to you
Yes i know it would be gambling, i perfectly understand the risks however if you take out money weekly you still end up with some even if you lose.

It would be a 1 time trip to the million after you reach it you close your account and buy some bonds from high interest rate countries and live off that for the rest if your life.

If you blow up at 999 999$ then atleast if you took out cash regularly end up with 200k or so.

One could design a system to exploit the market just enough until you earn your million and then stop trading since the odds will fall back to you after you continue.

It is interesting how a zero sum game can be won from a gambler's perspective.If you are interested drop me a PM, i certainly got some mathematically solid ideas for this cowboy aproach.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #86
  • Jul 10, 2014 5:38pm Jul 10, 2014 5:38pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} Yes i know it would be gambling, i perfectly understand the risks however if you take out money weekly you still end up with some even if you lose. It would be a 1 time trip to the million after you reach it you close your account and buy some bonds from high interest rate countries and live off that for the rest if your life. If you blow up at 999 999$ then atleast if you took out cash regularly end up with 200k or so. One could design a system to exploit the market just enough until you earn your million and then stop trading since the...
so what you wanna do is build your account and once it hit a million are so take the money and put it in safer investments, thats ok too if thats your thing
  • #87
  • Jul 10, 2014 5:59pm Jul 10, 2014 5:59pm
Quoting PoundTrader
{quote}so what you wanna do is build your account and once it hit a million are so take the money and put it in safer investments, thats ok too if thats your thing
I dont have a choice, i dont think there is other way to get rich quick from this business.You can spend years and years of your life to find a system that may or may not work.Even if you find one it will give 2% or so / month which is lame.

Time is precious, i see many traders here which try to become rich for 5 or 10 years on FF, but they cant.They already wasted 5 or 10 years.I wasted 2 years for now, and still didnt found any safe & profitable system, the best i found so far would take trades on WEEKLY TF which is too slow. High reward = High risk , if you want to earn the million i dont think there is any other way.

Even those who made 5%/ month need like 10 years to become millionaires, if all goes well, but they may have losing months and so on.
Trading never goes according to our expectations.This is what i realized so far.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #88
  • Jul 10, 2014 6:02pm Jul 10, 2014 6:02pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} I dont have a choice, i dont think there is other way to get rich quick from this business.You can spend years and years of your life to find a system that may or may not work.Even if you find one it will give 2% or so / month which is lame. Time is precious, i see many traders here which try to become rich for 5 or 10 years on FF, but they cant.They already wasted 5 or 10 years.I wasted 2 years for now, and still didnt found any safe & profitable system, the best i found so far would take trades on WEEKLY TF which is too slow. High reward...
i can't argue with that
  • #89
  • Jul 10, 2014 6:08pm Jul 10, 2014 6:08pm
Quoting PoundTrader
{quote}i can't argue with that
Yea, and since those who earn small % / month and are smart either open a hedgefund to get some more funds for extra leverage, or become salesman selling books, courses, mentoring, whatever just to make more money to then put it into the trading account.

Its a safe way, however its questionable wheather you ever get to be a millionaire.You either find some secret pattern which nobody saw before and trade that (hardly imaginable) or be a cowboy.

Funny thing is that the biggest cowboy so far that stock trader guy who made 18 milion in 2 years (i dont know his name) knew it.He swinged for the fences 2 years and now he is "selling" his method on his website How ironic...
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #90
  • Jul 10, 2014 6:08pm Jul 10, 2014 6:08pm
Interesting. Unless you have an unlimited source from which to fund the account over and over, what happens if you blow the account on the first long shot?
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #91
  • Jul 10, 2014 6:11pm Jul 10, 2014 6:11pm
Quoting albchr
Interesting. Unless you have an unlimited source from which to fund the account over and over, what happens if you blow the account on the first long shot?
You withdraw funds every week.Besides you have to make sure that your broker pays you, it would be funny that you reach 1 milion then your broker "undoes" those trades because he found some bogus reason that you didnt traded according to his terms.

Its better to withdraw funds regularly just to make sure that the broker is ok.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #92
  • Jul 10, 2014 6:14pm Jul 10, 2014 6:14pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} You withdraw funds every week.Besides you have to make sure that your broker pays you, it would be funny that you reach 1 milion then your broker "undoes" those trades because he found some bogus reason that you didnt traded according to his terms. Its better to withdraw funds regularly just to make sure that the broker is ok.
I think you missed my point. If you blow the account on the first long shot, there is no money to withdraw the first week or any after that. What then?
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #93
  • Jul 10, 2014 6:24pm Jul 10, 2014 6:24pm
When I started out I was over leveraging and I made some big gains....then I took some big losses and went through the usual shattered dream thing. I rebuilt my account and started trading more appropriate positions. Not raking in a lot of money but the size of the positions weren't distracting me from my analysis. I switched away from forex to another market and eventually came back to fx. My first trade back grabbed over 300 pips. Granted my position was small but I remember thinking....this is not hard. lol

Since then I've managed to trade larger and larger positions and not have it affect me too much. I can thank a bad divorce and a few other personal disasters which basically killed what joy I had. I am now dead inside and I don't feel the difference between a regular lot and a mini lot.

These personal disasters really helped my trading. LOL

I just shoved a pencil in my eye.........
  • #94
  • Jul 10, 2014 6:33pm Jul 10, 2014 6:33pm
Quoting calderone
When I started out I was over leveraging and I made some big gains....then I took some big losses and went through the usual shattered dream thing. I rebuilt my account and started trading more appropriate positions. Not raking in a lot of money but the size of the positions weren't distracting me from my analysis. I switched away from forex to another market and eventually came back to fx. My first trade back grabbed over 300 pips. Granted my position was small but I remember thinking....this is not hard. lol Since then I've managed to trade larger...
Hmmmm..... .... now there's an approach I've never tried. I wonder if my pencil sharpener works?
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #95
  • Jul 10, 2014 6:36pm Jul 10, 2014 6:36pm
Quoting albchr
{quote} I think you missed my point. If you blow the account on the first long shot, there is no money to withdraw the first week or any after that. What then?
The probability of losing your entire money on the first trade is slim, you cant gain a consistent edge true, but there are some principles which would minimize that probability for example trade only small spreads, trade in a pair which has swaps and trade in that direction, etc.

I am more concerned over the broker's reaction when he sees a client which makes 50.000$ / day or / hour, he might play tricks with you since i bet he doesnt have many clients which are even profitable not that he makes 50k.Especially if the broker is market maker, since you tehnically take his money by doing this, as he doesnt recuperate enough from the spreads in that short period.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #96
  • Jul 10, 2014 6:46pm Jul 10, 2014 6:46pm
Quoting albchr
{quote} Hmmmm..... .... now there's an approach I've never tried. I wonder if my pencil sharpener works?


I would have put it somewhere else but it snags on my trading diaper.
  • #97
  • Jul 10, 2014 6:51pm Jul 10, 2014 6:51pm
Especiallly if its a small broker, you would drive him bankrupt with this tehnique I dont think they will let you do that,they will do everything they can to stop you.I heard about a few bucket shops, i wont name them, which did exactly this, they let you trade, took the spreads & comissions, but if you made too much profit, they closed your account refering to some bogus afirmation in the contract which didnt existed, then they sent you back the initial capital but undone all your trades and kept the profits, how lovely .

The average winnings in a casino in Las Vegas is about 100.000k , if someone wins 1 million in a roulette, i bet they will do anything in their power to not let you out with that money, even if you played correctly, since theoretically you can win an infinite amount in roulette, but practically the probability is low, yet not impossible
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #98
  • Jul 10, 2014 6:55pm Jul 10, 2014 6:55pm
Quoting Proximus
Especiallly if its a small broker, you would drive him bankrupt with this tehnique I dont think they will let you do that,they will do everything they can to stop you.I heard about a few bucket shops, i wont name them, which did exactly this, they let you trade, took the spreads & comissions, but if you made too much profit, they closed your account refering to some bogus afirmation in the contract which didnt existed, then they sent you back the initial capital but undone all your trades and kept the profits, how lovely . The average winnings...
have you try the cowboy trading method?
  • #99
  • Jul 10, 2014 7:08pm Jul 10, 2014 7:08pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} The probability of losing your entire money on the first trade is slim, you cant gain a consistent edge true, but there are some principles which would minimize that probability for example trade only small spreads, trade in a pair which has swaps and trade in that direction, etc. I am more concerned over the broker's reaction when he sees a client which makes 50.000$ / day or / hour, he might play tricks with you since i bet he doesnt have many clients which are even profitable not that he makes 50k.Especially if the broker is market maker,...
Well, it just seems to me your gambler theory is predicated on several assumptions. You mentioned taking money out weekly. This assumes..

1) Your first trades are profitable so you can the first week.
2) You will find such trades each and every week and actually take them so you can continue to withdraw each week.
3) On high leverage, with real money, you'll have the fortitude to let the trade go against you without closing it. Almost every trade will go at least some amount against you at some point during it. When the stakes are very high, this isn't easy to withstand. Especially if, as you say, you can't gain an edge so you'll have no clue it will actually win in the end. (just for the record I think "can't have an edge" is totally false but that's not the point here)

There are more assumptions here but I'm tired...lol

I say since you offered PT your mathematical formula for such a high risk gamblers approach. Why not apply it to your demo account here which, I've seen dip from roughly -9% to it's current -12.2% since your first post here. I would think if your math is correct and your trading/gambling sound , by the end of next week you should be at +100% or more so you could then withdraw (In pretend of course) your weekly bootie. Let's see how that goes even with no real risk in the game as it's only a Demo.

I would be very interested to see that work out. You up for that little no real risk challenge?

I must get some rest now but I hope so. I think it would be really cool to see.

And oh, I have no problem withdrawing fund from my broker. It's fast, easy and never a problem. But this is Demo for you so it won't matter anyway.
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #100
  • Jul 10, 2014 7:12pm Jul 10, 2014 7:12pm
Quoting PoundTrader
{quote}have you try the cowboy trading method?
Not on a real account yet, as i mentioned i had a demo where i made 560% in a week, next week about 100% then it blowed up to 50%, i lost 330% of the 660%,then i deleted it.

It was merely out of proportion the first 300% believe it or not was made with reasonable risk about 3%, however i did a little bit of anti-martingale there adding to winning positions so sometimes the risk was 10%, but i won almost all of my trades , it was about 90% winrate or so.

But after i got to 300% i thought i was the king of trading and went very greedy, so in the weekend i was already thinking about opening a real account and already picked out a Ferrari as i thought if next week i open my real account by the end of the month i can buy the Ferrari . Then next week tuesday or wednesday i dont remember, there was a stupid news release on the GBP/JPY where i f*cked up 10% or so and instead of hedging it on another pair i kept adding to the losing position and moved my stoploss lower and lower, then i had no more free margin and all the trades got stopped out 1 by 1.Very silly, but only lost 50% of the balance and was still in profit.

But after that i felt disguisted from too much risk, the ironic is that now i feel disgusted from money management and small risk.It's a big dilemma nontheless.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
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