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  • #741
  • Jul 3, 2014 11:45am Jul 3, 2014 11:45am
You know I think the problem is when they are moving this strongly we don't really get any +/-100 cci signals do we?? They're trending too strongly, should we take every HA candle colour change when they're trending like this???

Sometimes it all just seems too good to be true, then you think right I'll take one and BANG!! it shoots back on you immediately.

guess thats all part of trading and maybe I'll get better as we go on with this system and get to recognise these trends for what they are and start hitting every HA colour change instead of waiting for +/-100 cci signals.

I'll get there, in the end.
Feel the Fear and do it anyway!!!
  • #742
  • Jul 3, 2014 12:01pm Jul 3, 2014 12:01pm
Quoting clivepackham
Heres something I struggle with this system look at the top 4 trenders below they just keep going and I haven't taken a single trade because they've been looking like they've moved too far all afternoon. So like a good boy I've just sat here thinking "They've gone too far no point in taking an entry they will reverse and take you out" but they just keep going??? Thoughts anyone??? {image} {image} {image} {image} {image}
Thoughts anyone? That must mean me ...

No bars closed over the 100 MA, 100 and 200 MA's still nicely seperated and heading cleanly up or down and trend CCI's staying over or under 100 with no crazy spikes way over 200. Go back and look at what tends to happen once prices spikes and stays above 200 (and even 300 or 400) for any amount of time... 9 times out of 10 we see a fading of trend. Not always a change in trend but a fade for sure. That is why I will NOT (well usually anyway) take an entry when the CCI 210 is already above 200 or spikes above 200 on the entry bar. I want my entry to be just below (or above) 100 and hitting back above or below 100 on entry or even above 100 the whole time with a fade and move back up. The CCI 210 must back a higher CCI reading on my entry bar as why would I want to enter on a fading CCI?

All of these charts either had no end of trend spike or hit above 200 but settled and re-built the trend smoothing out. 2 of 4 charts for the "current" trend we've never even hit the 200 levels. These smooth trends can go on forever (they won't but may seem like it)... We will either hit a wave of resistance from opposing buyers or sellers or the big boys will take some profit but we will see the increased activity in the CCI... May not end the trend but may end range mode...
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #743
  • Jul 3, 2014 12:06pm Jul 3, 2014 12:06pm
Quoting clivepackham
You know I think the problem is when they are moving this strongly we don't really get any +/-100 cci signals do we?? They're trending too strongly, should we take every HA candle colour change when they're trending like this??? Sometimes it all just seems too good to be true, then you think right I'll take one and BANG!! it shoots back on you immediately. guess thats all part of trading and maybe I'll get better as we go on with this system and get to recognise these trends for what they are and start hitting every HA colour change instead of waiting...
Van's 200 scale entries would have gotten you in. See my other post also. This was NFP day so this is defiantly not the norm.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #744
  • Jul 3, 2014 12:07pm Jul 3, 2014 12:07pm
Quoting clivepackham
You know I think the problem is when they are moving this strongly we don't really get any +/-100 cci signals do we?? They're trending too strongly, should we take every HA candle colour change when they're trending like this??? Sometimes it all just seems too good to be true, then you think right I'll take one and BANG!! it shoots back on you immediately. guess thats all part of trading and maybe I'll get better as we go on with this system and get to recognise these trends for what they are and start hitting every HA colour change instead of waiting...

Here is the greatest dilemma for this technique on entries....as you get CCI 210 trending, you then get 14 crossover towards trend, so you place a trade...but many times crossover go's back against the trend and hit stops, what is the method of giving odds in your favor to enter on "correct" 14 crossover?

I welcome Clive, Pres78, Vantage to answer that...
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  • #745
  • Jul 3, 2014 12:14pm Jul 3, 2014 12:14pm
Quoting driven18
{quote} Here is the greatest dilemma for this technique on entries....as you get CCI 210 trending, you then get 14 crossover towards trend, so you place a trade...but many times crossover go's back against the trend and hit stops, what is the method of giving odds in your favor to enter on "correct" 14 crossover? I welcome Clive, Pres78, Vantage to answer that... {image}
I cannot answer this question based on your 1 hour chart. A 14 CCI and 210 CCI show very different things on a 1 hour chart as compared to a 1 minute chart. I have not tested anything CCI related on anything higher than a 5 min chart.

On a 1 min chart if you have a trending CCI (over or under 100 but not over under 200 for me anyway) and you get a 14 CCI retrace to + or - 100 and come back towards 0 (there are a few ways to enter these) it's not very often they come back against you.

Perhaps Van or Clive can offer something more but for once I really have nothing to say.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #746
  • Jul 3, 2014 12:34pm Jul 3, 2014 12:34pm
hi Pres/Clive

would you call this a good entry?

the blue line. (its on a 5 min chart as i find the 1 min charts too fast paced)

technically, thats the second retracement. your thoughts.

thank you.
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  • #747
  • Jul 3, 2014 12:41pm Jul 3, 2014 12:41pm
and also, is this a bad trade?

your thoughts.

thank you.
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  • #748
  • Jul 3, 2014 1:00pm Jul 3, 2014 1:00pm
Quoting saticdoor86
and also, is this a bad trade? your thoughts. thank you. {image}
Wow that's why I couldn't find those bars on my GU today... June 18th chart ...

Well now that I have found what I should be looking at I can say this...

If your going to look at trading a 5 min chart I recommend testing something other than a 210 trend CCI. Too slow as this would be equal to a 75 min CCI which is just too far off the 5 min chart IMHO. I would recommend testing all 3;

 

  1. 42 = 15 min CCI
  2. 84 = 30 min CCI
  3. 168 = 1 hour CCI


I looked back at June 18th and either of the first two would have kept you out of that crappy area. Yes the CCI 14 retraced, the MA's were crossed and the CCI 210 was still in trend but as I said it takes too long for a 75 min CCI to change trend to catch anything on a 5 min chart. I have done some 5 min testing and I had no success with the 210 on that TF.

Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #749
  • Jul 3, 2014 1:03pm Jul 3, 2014 1:03pm
Quoting pres78
{quote} I cannot answer this question based on your 1 hour chart. A 14 CCI and 210 CCI show very different things on a 1 hour chart as compared to a 1 minute chart. I have not tested anything CCI related on anything higher than a 5 min chart. On a 1 min chart if you have a trending CCI (over or under 100 but not over under 200 for me anyway) and you get a 14 CCI retrace to + or - 100 and come back towards 0 (there are a few ways to enter these) it's not very often they come back against you. Perhaps Van or Clive can offer something more but for...
Agreed pres78 I have looked at these settings on 1hr and discarded.
  • #750
  • Jul 3, 2014 1:11pm Jul 3, 2014 1:11pm
Quoting clivepackham
need to get in earlier in every sense of the word. In fact thats exactly what Martin, my veteran trader mentor, had to say in our 2hr skype session today. He summed it all up in a nutshell for me when he said. "Clive, you're getting in too late 3rd sometimes 4th and 5th moves and wandering why it only goes 4 or 5 pips???" Its because its exhausted, its the end of the move, its finito, done its thing , kaputt its basically finished and I'm trying to jump on. Now a lot of that could be down to my top trenders or strongest/weakest indys. They by their...
Clive on the 3rd, 4th, 5th entry, you need to read your thread again, you have been told these many times before!!

I'm not going to comment more on the early entry. For every chart you show working I'll show you one (pres said the same thing as have others including Martin) where it fails. You want to be moving the odds in your favour. If you are mixing in with W pivots or proven higher TF SR levels fair enough. Many of the pairs you look at like euraud and gbpaud trend strongly and many of your CT early entries will fail.

On early entry CT I'll say good luck as I think you'll need it.
  • #751
  • Jul 3, 2014 1:17pm Jul 3, 2014 1:17pm
Quoting pres78
{quote} Wow that's why I couldn't find those bars on my GU today... June 18th chart ... Well now that I have found what I should be looking at I can say this... If your going to look at trading a 5 min chart I recommend testing something other than a 210 trend CCI. Too slow as this would be equal to a 75 min CCI which is just too far off the 5 min chart IMHO. I would recommend testing all 3; 42 = 15 min CCI 84 = 30 min CCI 168 = 1 hour CCI I looked back at June 18th and either of the first two would have kept you out of that crappy area. Yes the...

silly me! i spent 6 hours straight backtesting and adding filters and what not to make it work with the 210 cci

alright, will give all three a try, thanks for heads up!
  • #752
  • Jul 3, 2014 1:18pm Jul 3, 2014 1:18pm
Quoting clivepackham
{quote} Now a lot of that could be down to my top trenders or strongest/weakest indys. They by their very nature show us whats moved not whats about to move so quite often they come to the top at the end of their runs so will have to have a closer look at the charts when they come to the top.
I never got your TT indi to work right but you are correct it is as lagging an indi as they come. By the time your 5min and 1min are showing the same pair at the top... guess what we've already missed the move. In order for the 100LWMA to be in a nice "trending" position price has had to have moved up and away from it...

I don't even really use your CM anymore (and I never could get Van's compiled to work with 600 build)... For me it's ALL about the CCI's and the PA.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #753
  • Jul 3, 2014 1:21pm Jul 3, 2014 1:21pm
Quoting saticdoor86
{quote} silly me! i spent 6 hours straight backtesting and adding filters and what not to make it work with the 210 cci alright, will give all three a try, thanks for heads up!
If you get the right trend CCI (I have some testing done but not completed, plus I don't want to squash your fun!) It will feel tedious but when you come out the other side with a working combination you will already have a great feel for how to best trade it and you won't need any additional filters as the trend CCI will filter out the ranges. Then it's all about the CCI's and the price action. Simple.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #754
  • Jul 3, 2014 1:27pm Jul 3, 2014 1:27pm
Quoting pres78
{quote} If you get the right trend CCI (I have some testing done but not completed, plus I don't want to squash your fun!) It will feel tedious but when you come out the other side with a working combination you will already have a great feel for how to best trade it and you won't need any additional filters as the trend CCI will filter out the ranges. Then it's all about the CCI's and the price action. Simple.

alright sure thing! back to testing again! i will let you know once ive done the testing and we can point out which is better, but preliminary browsing showed that the 168 isnt too good with the 5 mins. We will see. thanks once again, appreciate it.
  • #755
  • Edited 3:44pm Jul 3, 2014 3:30pm | Edited 3:44pm
Quoting saticdoor86
{quote} alright sure thing! back to testing again! i will let you know once ive done the testing and we can point out which is better, but preliminary browsing showed that the 168 isnt too good with the 5 mins. We will see. thanks once again, appreciate it.
Hi saticolor86

Try 168 on 5 min.

This is how I calculate the correct CCIs for each timeframe.

If we use the 14 period as our base CCI then all you have to do is multiply it by the next timeframe up which is approximately 15 times higher . like this:

1 min use 15 min trend 14x15=210
5 min use 1 hr trend as theres 12x5 mins in an hour so its 14x12=168
15 min use 4 hr trend as theres 16x15mins in a 4hr so its 14x16=224
1hr use the daily trend as theres 24xhrs in a day so its 14x24=336
4hr use the weekly trend
daily use the monthly trend

I will leave you to work those out as depends how many days you want to count in a week/month etc

This is what I've used in the past to good effect but I'm not really a long term man as you all know but the theme is to use a timeframe approximately 15 times away. Mind you could always try just one timeframe above but I find they are too close.

Remember when we trade the 1 min we are looking to trade the 15 min momentum pushes and its the same on the higher time frames for instance trade the 1 hr momentum on the 5 min timeframe etc etc.

Basically i am working on the theory that a strong 15 min momentum move up is an uptrend on the 1 min and therefore tradable as such.

The biggest single factor that makes this all work is the need for the higher timeframe to be trending strongly or maybe I should say have a strong momentum push going on. Thats why I use the TT indy first because it shows the steepest sloping MAs so the strongest trender, but like pres78 has said above you need to look at the top trender to check where it is in its move. If its just started and the MAs are just separating, then fine trade it, but if its been going one way for quite a while be careful, is the trend CCI over 100? check out was the last drive strong did it clear the last HH/LL easily; is the trending CCI sloping up or down?? Have the past CCI signals been working ok??? etc etc

Once you're happy the trend is strong . Then and only then, go ahead and trade the CCI pullbacks as we do in the 1 min.

The main reason I trade the 1 min is because one pair or another is usually trending strongly durring the London/New York session. Can't emphasise enough its got to be trending strongly.

Heres an hourly chart GBPAUD showing as a top trender in both the 5min and hrly tables. Notice that 6 of the 7 CCI signals worked??? Can't over emphasise the importance of only trading strong trending pairs. Check the MAs make sure they are sloping by about 45 degrees.

If you want any more proof look at my post above with all 4 top trenders pouring down or up the page, just have to be aware trends do come to an end sometime.
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Heres how I set up my top trender for 5min/hourly trading. You might want to try using the ATR setting to true see what different pairs it brings up??
Just remember today was a NFP day so readings might be awry because of that.

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Hope that helps.
Feel the Fear and do it anyway!!!
  • #756
  • Jul 3, 2014 3:49pm Jul 3, 2014 3:49pm
Quoting Vantage
{quote} Clive on the 3rd, 4th, 5th entry, you need to read your thread again, you have been told these many times before!! I'm not going to comment more on the early entry. For every chart you show working I'll show you one (pres said the same thing as have others including Martin) where it fails. You want to be moving the odds in your favour. If you are mixing in with W pivots or proven higher TF SR levels fair enough. Many of the pairs you look at like euraud and gbpaud trend strongly and many of your CT early entries will fail. On early entry...
Good point Mr V.Could be a problem if trading anti daily trend especially on a strong daily trender like EURAUD which of course is pouring down the page on the daily.I hear yer.......
Feel the Fear and do it anyway!!!
  • #757
  • Edited 4:44pm Jul 3, 2014 4:27pm | Edited 4:44pm
Quoting driven18
{quote} Here is the greatest dilemma for this technique on entries....as you get CCI 210 trending, you then get 14 crossover towards trend, so you place a trade...but many times crossover go's back against the trend and hit stops, what is the method of giving odds in your favor to enter on "correct" 14 crossover? I welcome Clive, Pres78, Vantage to answer that... {image}
Hi driven18

Its really really simple to answer your question especially if you have read my post 2 up from here??

First of all you have the wrong CCI setting there, when trading hrly charts we need to have the daily trend as our trend CCI now using 14 as our base cci period we can work out our trend CCI as how many hrs are there in a day? 24 of course so to work out the trend CCI period we times it by 14. 24hrs x 14 cci period=336.

So lets change the trend CCI period to 336, now you can see you're actually below the zero line so buy signals just ain't gonna work very often. Please see eurjpy chart below same as yours with the CCI set to 336.

Ok so thats the first reason your CCI's aren't working too well and the 2nd reason is , guess what???

You're not on a strong trending hourly pair, not even close, its not over the +100 level, hell its not even above the zero line on the trend CCI. However move along a couple of hours and the CCI goes over +100 the mAs separate nicely and hey presto the first qualifying 14 CCI signal works like a charm, beautiful entry. Freds old favourite off of that 100sma, don't you just love it!!!

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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And lastly theres another clue as to why the CCI struggles to do its job for you, its right in front of your nose, on your screen. Thats right EURJPY is not a strong hrly trender sure its trending but not strongly as its not showing in my strongest/weakest indicator on your chart. Now its not essential because its more important your CCI goes over +100, but it sure as hell helps if you want your CCI signals to work regularly.

Bottom line to answer your question "what is the method of giving odds in your favor to enter on "correct" 14 crossover?"

Use the daily as the trend CCI when trading hrly charts but most importantly its gotta be a strong trending hrly pair.

Hope that helps??
Feel the Fear and do it anyway!!!
  • #758
  • Jul 3, 2014 5:02pm Jul 3, 2014 5:02pm
Quoting pres78
{quote} I never got your TT indi to work right but you are correct it is as lagging an indi as they come. By the time your 5min and 1min are showing the same pair at the top... guess what we've already missed the move. In order for the 100LWMA to be in a nice "trending" position price has had to have moved up and away from it... I don't even really use your CM anymore (and I never could get Van's compiled to work with 600 build)... For me it's ALL about the CCI's and the PA.
Hi Pres78

Hear what you're saying about my TT indy and yep for sure we have to have a look where we are before jumping straight in but it works really well if we've had a flat liner coming into the London open as the MAs will be flat. Then it picks up the moves very well.

By the way i only use the 1 min for finding the right pairs not worried about the 5 mins too much. Tend to use the 5 min to quickly access whats happened over night to identify a possible reversal in morning if a pairs been strong over night then its a potential reversal play in London session. Also if a pair starts on 1 min then agrees on 5 min we have a possible runner.

The other way I like to use the 5 min side is if we get same pair top of each table but opposite colours then we have a possible reversal and a strong one at that.

Also good for post news releases like today. wait 30 mins or so for things to quiten down then see whoose top? Sometimes pairs just keep on going like todays pairs this afternoon, I suppose we have to assume that the trend will keep going until the end. If we can't see any signs of weakening then just take the qualifying pullbacks as they come I guess.

See you tomoz.
Feel the Fear and do it anyway!!!
  • #759
  • Jul 3, 2014 5:33pm Jul 3, 2014 5:33pm
Quoting Vantage
{quote} Clive on the 3rd, 4th, 5th entry, you need to read your thread again, you have been told these many times before!! I'm not going to comment more on the early entry. For every chart you show working I'll show you one (pres said the same thing as have others including Martin) where it fails. You want to be moving the odds in your favour. If you are mixing in with W pivots or proven higher TF SR levels fair enough. Many of the pairs you look at like euraud and gbpaud trend strongly and many of your CT early entries will fail. On early entry...
Hi Mr V.

Think we've got a slight misunderstanding here as 3 was just an arrow showing a first HH in new uptrend and 5 and 6 are as per your suggestions above 100 level on CCI although it does dip down with the pullback but thats ok isn't it???

The only one I thought you guys wouldn't like is number 4 as its before CCI goes over +100, but it does for at least one bar just before, be it quickly retraces back down. The only reason I like entry 4 is because its a break and retest of 100sma and the last LH so has a couple of stars in my book also I think it was a retest of daily high but took it off as a bit confusing. But don't worry I know where you're coming from about trading in the mix, you'd rather we wait for price to come out of the fighting zone.

I understand that fine. Which is why I put the 3rd entry on number 6 just in case you didn't like 4, but the others??? I'm sure they meet the rules.

Catch up tomoz.
Feel the Fear and do it anyway!!!
  • #760
  • Jul 3, 2014 8:29pm Jul 3, 2014 8:29pm
Watching TV flipping through my charts and watched this EURJPY system trade unfold so I said OK fine Asia session I'll bite...

3 pip SL.. At 1:1 so far. Want 1.5:1 before I go to bed... Then close half and happy dreams while part 2 runs. Nice clean PA triple rejection off 139.

Set fixed TP for part 2 at 7:1 which will be hit before 75 level.

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Edit 1.5:1 hit and TP set on part 2... off to bed all risk removed.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
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