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Trading is as simple as ABCD

  • #461
  • Jun 18, 2014 7:16am Jun 18, 2014 7:16am
Quoting Vantage
{quote} Hi Clive Do you mean gbpusd buy levels? If yes it might already have happened as it looks like move below yesterdays low has been rejected. I gave up trying to buy/sell levels, wasn't good enough to be consistent. Worked on the assumption that if reverting to trend there will be some reversal candles on 1hr to show the way.
Thats really interesting, so you no longer buy or sell levels?? Or rather you don't pick levels?

You wait to see price react then once its reacted wait for a weak counter trend hrly candle and then join the trend? Is that right??

If so no wonder you were interested in this method could give you an even tighter entry to join the trend, so wait for price to react first then you know you've got the right level because price reacted to it. Hmmm clever stuff Mr V., clever stuff.

I've got a little EA you might like which just buys higher lows or sells lower highs, useful little tool if you identify a level you fancy price to turn at, just drop it on and if price does turn and you get your first HL it buys it for you. However if price drops straight through no HL then it does nothing, just lets it go.
Feel the Fear and do it anyway!!!
  • #462
  • Jun 18, 2014 7:26am Jun 18, 2014 7:26am
Quoting clivepackham
{quote} Thats really interesting, so you no longer buy or sell levels?? Or rather you don't pick levels? You wait to see price react then once its reacted wait for a weak counter trend hrly candle and then join the trend? Is that right?? If so no wonder you were interested in this method could give you an even tighter entry to join the trend, so wait for price to react first then you know you've got the right level because price reacted to it. Hmmm clever stuff Mr V., clever stuff. I've got a little EA you might like which just buys higher lows...
Hi Clive, yep trading the reaction to a level and not the level itself.

Feel free to post the ea if you like, will be interested to see how it does. So many of the trades we look at have a push through a level and then retrace and (in this case) lower high abc reaction to the level.

Correct chart now attached.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #463
  • Jun 18, 2014 7:26am Jun 18, 2014 7:26am
Quoting Vantage
{quote} Hi Clive Do you mean gbpusd buy levels? If yes it might already have happened as it looks like move below yesterdays low has been rejected. I gave up trying to buy/sell levels, wasn't good enough to be consistent. Worked on the assumption that if reverting to trend there will be some reversal candles on 1hr to show the way.
I have just realised my current template didn't have yesterdays high/low /close on it, 3 of my "Key Levels". Broker asked all clients to download brand new platform over weekend and I lost all my old templates etc so had to rebuild them but obviously forgot my HOL indy. Just put it back on and that move up on GBPUSD was more or less off of yesterdays low, those support arrows I showed before were right on it.Perfect place to buy off of surely?? Yesterdays low???
Feel the Fear and do it anyway!!!
  • #464
  • Edited 9:55am Jun 18, 2014 7:33am | Edited 9:55am
Quoting pres78
{quote} Paper trade in at 82609 SL 3 pips at 82639, safe as I can get over 3:1 before hitting the 50 level. At 1% per trade these trades that hit 2,3,4,5 or more to 1 risk reward add up quickly. You don't need to risk big to see you gains compound and grow. Small TF, small SL, small targets means we don't need to move far to get nice R:R trades. Now I don't recommend trading with crazy small SL's all the time but if the PA and indi's agree that a small SL is a safe SL than go for it. Get in and out quickly and bank some cash. Will this trade work?...
Well leaving it alone the trade was a loser. It was right at NYO and after 30 mins of not even hitting 1:1 I would have closed it. Also as we came into high impact news just now so I would have closed also as I was not protected yet. So live I would have closed around BE. For testing purposes it was a loss.

The first entry on this pair has hit 4:1 based on a 3 pip SL.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #465
  • Jun 18, 2014 7:44am Jun 18, 2014 7:44am
Quoting trader7757
Just thought I would throw a little info your way. I am a retired institutional trader, got to get out of the rat race earlier than most, at age 50. You might want to refine your AB=CD trading some by filtering out some of of the patterns I see you posting. This particular pattern is traded by some of the best traders on both the NYSE (where I worked) and the CME. The original pattern was developed by H.M. Gartley in 1935 in his book "Profits in the Stock Market" and his been refined over the years to be more accurate. An excellent book by Ross...
A very useful post. Thank you.
  • #466
  • Jun 18, 2014 9:16am Jun 18, 2014 9:16am
Quoting trader7757
Just thought I would throw a little info your way. I am a retired institutional trader, got to get out of the rat race earlier than most, at age 50. You might want to refine your AB=CD trading some by filtering out some of of the patterns I see you posting. This particular pattern is traded by some of the best traders on both the NYSE (where I worked) and the CME. The original pattern was developed by H.M. Gartley in 1935 in his book "Profits in the Stock Market" and his been refined over the years to be more accurate. An excellent book by Ross...

Thanks for the info Trader7757!
  • #467
  • Jun 18, 2014 9:30am Jun 18, 2014 9:30am
Quoting trader7757
Just thought I would throw a little info your way. I am a retired institutional trader, got to get out of the rat race earlier than most, at age 50. You might want to refine your AB=CD trading some by filtering out some of of the patterns I see you posting. This particular pattern is traded by some of the best traders on both the NYSE (where I worked) and the CME. The original pattern was developed by H.M. Gartley in 1935 in his book "Profits in the Stock Market" and his been refined over the years to be more accurate. An excellent book...
Hi Trader7757

Welcome to my world.

Thanks for your comments, its great to know that "This particular pattern is traded by some of the best traders on both the NYSE (where I worked) and the CME." Makes me even more resolved to stick with it until I crack it for good.

As for your comments about the "specific conditions" that need to exist, can I put down my thoughts and you just say whether we're getting warm or not??? Well I will put down my beliefs and if you feel like commenting great, if you don't fair enough no harm done for trying is there??

My own qualifying rules are something like this:

1) As we are trading 1 min chart needs to be the right time of day basically market opens TO, FO, LO and NYO about an hour before and the 3 hrs after.

2) Must be a strong trending pair. I identify this by my top 8 trenders indy which looks at the steepness of the 100lwma, steepest slope strongest trending pair. It puts the top 8 in a table and I only watch the top 4 pairs. I particularly like it if one currency is dominating the top 8 eg GBP pairs might be 6 of the top 8 right now its in 7 of the 8 so should be looking for a GBP related trade, again from top 4.

3) Must be in same direction as the 15min momentum so looking to trade when over +/- 100 on 15 min CCI (210) . I personally actually like it when the 15 min is moving from one extreme to the other so if going from +200 to -200 then on its way sell any 1 min CCI's that are LH's or double tops.

4) If selling then wait for a good AB move that clearly goes lower than previous drive low and breaks a Key level eg previous S or R , yesterdays high, low or close, daily pivots, 100 and 200 sma and finally 25 levels. Always looking for a break and retest entry of one of these key levels.

5) Now wait for a clean pullback BC move back to the key level it just broke.

6) The BC move must not go past the A point.

7) The above 6 points qualify the ABCD move for me then its just a matter of entry which in its simplest form is the 14cci goes over the zero line. Not going to dwell too much about actual entry and exit rules as more interested in how you qualify a good ABCD move to trade???

Well thats it really, works on any timeframe as I'm sure you are aware would use an approximate ratio of 15 to 1 for the trend CCI so if trading 5 min charts would have the hrly CCI as the trend or momentum indicator, hrly the daily , 4 hrly the weekly etc etc.

Anyway thats it my friend hope it is something similar to how your fellow traders would qualify the ABCD moves to trade.

Your thoughts and comments would be welcome.

All the best Clive.
Feel the Fear and do it anyway!!!
  • #468
  • Jun 19, 2014 8:42am Jun 19, 2014 8:42am
1. I don't trade 1 min charts as they are far to noisy for me to get a clear view of market sentiment. Can't help you on that point. For that matter, I don't trade any timed charts. I am interested only in price action. What does time have to do with price movement? It's simply an arbitrary measurement tool that the masses have accepted. I trade price related charts using Renko and range bars and take time out of the equation all together. I don't know whether Forex platforms have these type of bars, but they are far more effective in reading price action and filtering out noise.

2. Instead of experimenting, which will cost you money...why don't you read about the conditions Gartley set for the trade to work?

3. The Gartley method really centers around failed highs and failed lows, in a nutshell. A failed high or low is an automatic trade for me. If an equity instrument fails in reaching a previous high, I am automatically short and visa versa. Again, Gartley places specific rules on how to make this trade and it is important to understand how these rules function and why. It would take several pages to go through the logic of Gartley's methodology so I will leave it to you to research that topic.

4. To give you an idea of my committment to trading, I generally read a trading book every week or two. Just ordered six new books yesterday on topics ranging from Market profile (which I use to help establish acceptance and rejection levels) to Al Brooks book on reading charts with no indicators. The day you stop reading and learning is the day you regress in your trading ability. I should mention I love to read and learn, and reading books greatly shortens your learning curve. I have several hundred trading books and some are straight up bunk, but I can say I have learned something from each book I read whether I agree with the authors premise or not. Become a devoted student of this trading game, and learn from the masters. Alexander Elder is also a great author to read, as are hundreds of others.

6. My final question is for the group and is simple. Why trade forex when you can trade CME futures? I have noticed that most traders here use lagging indicators and chart formations and moving averages, which are not terribly effective. The CME can give you much tighter spreads to trade, total transparency. Further, the leverage is wonderful and the platforms are far more sophisticated than forex. As you might well see, I am a bit predisposed to futures, but with good reason. Just looking for opinions here, not trying to run anyone out of forex, or even really knock it, especially if you are a successful trader. Let me know, as I am curious on this topic.
  • #469
  • Jun 19, 2014 10:16am Jun 19, 2014 10:16am
Quoting trader7757
The CME can give you much tighter spreads to trade, total transparency. Further, the leverage is wonderful and the platforms are far more sophisticated than forex. As you might well see, I am a bit predisposed to futures, but with good reason. Just looking for opinions here, not trying to run anyone out of forex, or even really knock it, especially if you are a successful trader. Let me know, as I am curious on this topic.
I would assume that many are drawn to FX because you can open and account and trade with small $ amounts. You can open and trade ECN FX accounts for only $100 and up (some even less with crazy high leverage) where most futures brokers require much larger deposits to open accounts and trade.

If I may ask do you trade with one specific broker. You mention wonderful leverage and spreads I am curoius how this compares to my FX brokers.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #470
  • Jun 19, 2014 1:55pm Jun 19, 2014 1:55pm
Quoting trader7757
Why trade forex when you can trade CME futures? I have noticed that most traders here use lagging indicators and chart formations and moving averages, which are not terribly effective. The CME can give you much tighter spreads to trade, total transparency. Further, the leverage is wonderful and the platforms are far more sophisticated than forex. As you might well see, I am a bit predisposed to futures, but with good reason. Just looking for opinions here, not trying to run anyone out of forex, or even really knock it, especially if you are a successful...
One reason people might be trading forex is minimum account size. I didnt think this earlier but learned that some people here are trading with micro lots and sometimes with less than $100 in account.

The other is Forex retail brokers have even higher leverage (100:1 or more - outside US).

Also ease of access: It is far more easier to open a small forex account than a futures account at FCM.

Also someone trading exotic pairs -- it is much easier in forex than futures.

People who are trading large sizes in forex, I believe they can trade futures as well.
Think : Trade : Live Life
  • #471
  • Jun 19, 2014 2:09pm Jun 19, 2014 2:09pm
As I mentioned in an earlier post, most of the brokers on LaSalle Street are pretty reputable. (ie-Amp Futures, Infinity Futures, Apex Futures and a host of others) Most day trading margins are $400-500/contract with most beginning balances around $2500. The spread during trading hours is 1 tick on most contracts, some of the odd ball contracts with low volume the spread can be more due to low volume. Of course, you would avoid those contracts. (ie-cotton, sugar..etc) The basic financial futures have more than adequate volume and maintain the 1 tick spread. These include the YM, NQ, CL, ES, 6E, to name a few) The commission varies, but most round trip, all-in trade commissions are $3-5. More active traders, like myself, can easily negotiate lower commissions.

While those variables are all just fine, futures companies are highly regulated (especially in the last year) and compliance is strictly enforced. The goal is complete transparency for all traders, so volume and price movement is the norm. My average trade is about 10 minutes, at the most. Leverage is about 50:1 on most contracts, which is plenty and keeps traders from blowing up their accounts on the first couple of trades. I would say that most traders are still undercapitalized and tend to trade too many contracts in hopes of hitting the big one. A slower more methodical approach yields the best rates of return. I generally make 3-5 trades each trading day. Hope that helps.

My trading targets are generally; 2x ATR for stop/loss and 4x ATR for profit target (in trending markets), otherwise 1 ATR for stop, 2x for profit target. The ATR on most contracts is usually in the 7-10 range.
  • #472
  • Jun 19, 2014 2:14pm Jun 19, 2014 2:14pm
Quoting trader7757
As I mentioned in an earlier post, most of the brokers on LaSalle Street are pretty reputable. (ie-Amp Futures, Infinity Futures, Apex Futures and a host of others) Most day trading margins are $400-500/contract with most beginning balances around $2500. The spread during trading hours is 1 tick on most contracts, some of the odd ball contracts with low volume the spread can be more due to low volume. Of course, you would avoid those contracts. (ie-cotton, sugar..etc) The basic financial futures have more than adequate volume and maintain the 1...
That is very interesting. Looking at that book you mentioned it seemed that it was more written towards higher TF trading (although there were some different TF trading samples) but I guess you can take those Gartley patterns and find them playing out on most any TF. Will start reading that book this weekend as I am a big believer in continued education and growth as a trader. Thank you for the information and recommendation for a new trading book for me to read.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #473
  • Jun 19, 2014 6:39pm Jun 19, 2014 6:39pm
Nice trade today on GBPAUD just after NYO. Price had made a recent HL / HH with the HH pushing into the 75 level. A retrace of 38.2% for that last leg from the days low to that recent swing high down into the recently crossed MA100 and MA200. We moved up a bit and then printed a new HL on a really big dip on the CCI 14. Nice divergence. NYO and price went sideways below 8075 printing another CCI 14 dip into -100 and then back above as both CCI's crossed back above +100.

Entry at blue line with a 6pip SL. 4:1 hit as price hit 8100. When it was all said and done had one held to the days high we hit as much as 11:1. Not bad.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #474
  • Jun 19, 2014 7:27pm Jun 19, 2014 7:27pm
GBPAUD short I just took.

Entry 8121, SL 8126

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #475
  • Jun 20, 2014 3:59am Jun 20, 2014 3:59am
Quoting pres78
GBPAUD short I just took. Entry 8121, SL 8126 {image}
Nice trades.
  • #476
  • Jun 20, 2014 4:27am Jun 20, 2014 4:27am
Possible GBPAUD long after LO.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #477
  • Jun 20, 2014 6:10am Jun 20, 2014 6:10am
Hi Everyone

Sorry I've been absent for a while. Had an invite I couldn't resist to play golf at my local club's Pro-am. Had a great day played with a young Professional golfer who was the absolute spitting image of Tiger Woods!!!

You could imagine my surprise when I walked up to the first Tee to join my team and there was Tiger Woods!!! I thought Jesus is this my lucky day or what????

Turns out he gets mistaken for Tiger all the time so he was not at all surprised when I walked up and shook his hand and said "Hi Tiger, bit surprised to see you here today, back's obviously feeling better then???"

Anyway to cut a long story short, he told me I was mistaken and in fact his name was Carlton Avondale a local budding pro from Hastings. But I didn't believe him, you wanna know why??? I've never ever in my life seen a man hit the golf ball like it!! He was incredible and the funny thing was he even played just like Tiger Woods. he walked like him, he smiled like him he putted like him and man did he ever drive the ball like him???

So much so on the last hole he hit yet another 350 yard drive straight down the middle with absolute ease, I looked at him with a very serious, quizzical look on my face and said "Are you sure you're not Tiger Woods??"

Here's a picture of me and my new mate Tiger.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Me and my mate Tiger.jpeg Size: 255 KB


What a great day that was!!

But back to the thread, great to see some really good posts been going on in my absence so will have a quick read and put some replys together. Many thanks to all.

Catch you later.
Feel the Fear and do it anyway!!!
  • #478
  • Edited 4:43am Jun 23, 2014 4:06am | Edited 4:43am
I think I'll be trading live shortly. This is about as pic perfect as you can expect. Price breaks the immediate range see the red line 1.4408 and retraces back to test, a classic set up.

- cci 210 hits -100
- cci 14 200ish retrace on cci scale (although didn't go to +100)
- angle/separation on ma's
- price below ma's
- abc
- EUR was weak and AUD strong on CM

Ended up being a 15/85 trade.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #479
  • Jun 23, 2014 8:34am Jun 23, 2014 8:34am
Quoting Vantage
I think I'll be trading live shortly. This is about as pic perfect as you can expect. Price breaks the immediate range see the red line 1.4408 and retraces back to test, a classic set up. - cci 210 hits -100 - cci 14 200ish retrace on cci scale (although didn't go to +100) - angle/separation on ma's - price below ma's - abc - EUR was weak and AUD strong on CM Ended up being a 15/85 trade. {image}
Looks great Van. Meets all your rules nicely.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #480
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:47am Jun 23, 2014 10:47am
Quoting Vantage
I think I'll be trading live shortly. This is about as pic perfect as you can expect. Price breaks the immediate range see the red line 1.4408 and retraces back to test, a classic set up. - cci 210 hits -100 - cci 14 200ish retrace on cci scale (although didn't go to +100) - angle/separation on ma's - price below ma's - abc - EUR was weak and AUD strong on CM Ended up being a 15/85 trade. {image}
Looks cool Mr V, just one question, how do you find the right pair to trade??

Do you use strongest/weakest indy or just scroll through pairs looking for the setup??

Also are you only trading in direction of daily trend???

Will start posting setups shortly been doing some testing on the strategy tester which my dear friend Ted has been telling me to do for years, but wow, what a great tool!!!
Feel the Fear and do it anyway!!!
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