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Is trading really that hard?

  • #101
  • Nov 6, 2013 11:17pm Nov 6, 2013 11:17pm
Quoting Muhammad Ezz
{quote} But 20-30% isn't worth putting yourself under the tension of trading! . I mean you can make 5% out of your money running a supermarket or a coffee shop business, that's 50-60% per annum and it's not mentally exhausting as trading ( source:had a supermarket business for 2 years ) ...
You got it wrong man. You cannot be a full time trader overnight. It may take some time.
20% - 30% return is good initially without taking higher risk or getting stressed. Of course you can run a supermarket while doing trading on a part time basis.
  • #102
  • Nov 7, 2013 2:41am Nov 7, 2013 2:41am
Should i trade live AGAIN? This is my demo account result. After i lost my live account in a week last month i went back demoing. I think the hardest part is psychology.
He who knows...
  • #103
  • Nov 7, 2013 8:48am Nov 7, 2013 8:48am
Quoting Jose Rizal
Should i trade live AGAIN? This is my demo account result. After i lost my live account in a week last month i went back demoing. I think the hardest part is psychology.

Real money is different, use Demo to prove a method works, then use small Lot sizes / account size to prove you can do it with real $$$'s, then effectively trade of your profits not of your base amount, try to take that out if possible, then increase the lot sizes and remember your trading with there money, therefore you kinda get a emotionless demo state going on.

No point, trading demo long term, as soon as it's real $$'s you'll have no chance, got to pay to learn, take it back 1000x's later
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #104
  • Nov 8, 2013 7:17am Nov 8, 2013 7:17am
Quoting Jose Rizal
Should i trade live AGAIN? This is my demo account result. After i lost my live account in a week last month i went back demoing. I think the hardest part is psychology.
After 9 consecutive losing trades at 0.02 lot you enter 2 trades at 0.5 lot to chase your losses. Luckily this time it worked out for you. What you are doing is similar to martingale. I think a 4 day trade history is too soon to judge on. If you are consistently winning after 3 months, then I'll say, yay go for it.

Yes real money is different, but there is no point even attempting real money if you can't even do demo.
  • #105
  • Nov 8, 2013 8:18am Nov 8, 2013 8:18am
depends on how we trade, trade disciplinely and wisely
Especially for those who already tried with some trials and errors on demo, and real one as well.
some people like using the word of lucky in trading, however for me luck in trade means
when u made enough preparation and experience enough with the market.
The Force is with me.. Im One With the Force..
  • #106
  • Nov 8, 2013 8:26am Nov 8, 2013 8:26am
Quoting Jose Rizal
okay thanks! im still polishing my method and style... i think its working.... i lost my live account last month bc of trading with indicators. ahahaha now is different.... i can feel it.. im still polishing the psychological part of trading w/c for me is the hardest part...
In my opinion you needn't have upped your lot size when you had your string of losses; you're actually accumulating a good amount of pips. That gets filed under greed and is an account killer! Good luck.
  • #107
  • Jun 2, 2014 3:29am Jun 2, 2014 3:29am
Quoting Forexnuts
Yes, trading effectively is not easy contrary to what those sleazy sales pages put out..it takes a lot of effort but once you have a good idea on what to watch out for, place orders at the right time, trade profitably ..things should ease up a tad.. Bottom line, converting all that info to knowledge takes a while but any beginner, with effort and research should get there.
That's good news for the 95% who are losing at the moment
95% of the people don't believe 100% they can win, that's why they lose
  • #108
  • Edited 4:34am Jun 2, 2014 4:22am | Edited 4:34am
Quoting Muhammad Ezz
I was reading earlier today the pdfs explaining the Sonic R trading style and yesterday I watched a couple of videos for Al Brooks PA course. I just had two lines sticked to my memory. When Brooks said " when I was an eye surgeon before starting trading I was able to make one surgery at a time while in trading I can have lots of shares and profit more, this is a hard job but well rewarding " and in the one of Sonic pdfs he talked about that people should take trading seriously and asked this question " how many years are you willing to go to a college...

I'm glad you draw a comparison between the medical profession and trading forex. After a few years of study, I have to agree that they're both very similar:


1. Both are ruled and driven by (big) money
2. Both promote the illusion that there's a 'cure' (or 'fix) around the corner (it takes hard work though, decades of hard work even, but they're not worried, on the contrary, because in the meantime money is pouring in...).
3. Both try to justify the suffering and pain the patient and (95% of all) trader(s) have to go through, because there's just no other (easier) way. This leads to situations where cancer patients have highly poisonous chemicals poured into them (carcinogens, actually), because they're told by the professionals that it's the only way to survive (even after decades of research, costing the tax payer billions of dollars every year...) and traders blowing up account after account...
4. Both are playing with our mind, our money and our lives.
5. Both treat only symptoms and offer no real solutions/cures; that's why it's such hard work to become consistently profitable/healthy - they love it, because it keeps you dependent on them, for treatments and lessons.
5. Maintaining health as well as becoming a profitable trader is mainly a matter of emotional/psychological mastery (they both know this, hence the 'scare tactics' and the false premise of their professions being 'science based' - if they weren't, things could easily slip out of their hands).
6. Both use manipulation to maintain their control and power over 'the public' (false information, false claims, you name it, they got/use it).


I make no claim for this list being complete, but I think it will suffice for he or she who is willing to stare truth in the face.


Disclaimer: I'm not a broker, nor am I a doctor (or God) and all the content on this page is merely put there for informational purposes. If you have problems with your health and/or money, I strongly advice you to seek professional help with either your broker or doctor (or both). I decline every liability whatsoever for bad things happening to you as a result of the information handed out on this page. Every individual should take responsibility for his or her own actions.


May God bless you all
95% of the people don't believe 100% they can win, that's why they lose
  • #109
  • Jun 2, 2014 8:25am Jun 2, 2014 8:25am
Yes, trading is hard but not the way most people make it to be. Trading exposes you to every flaw in your psyche. You must grapple with intense emotions some of which will tend to break many emotionally which they never come back from.
  • #110
  • Jun 2, 2014 10:09pm Jun 2, 2014 10:09pm
Quoting DarkKnight1
Yes, trading is hard but not the way most people make it to be. Trading exposes you to every flaw in your psyche. You must grapple with intense emotions some of which will tend to break many emotionally which they never come back from.
Very true, DarkKnight1.

Probably a good way to eliminate the negative influence of emotions on your trading results is the use of a 'set it and forget it' method (presuming you already found a way to open trades in a 'non-emotion-driven' way). My biggest sin is 'moving my stop loss, to 'protect' it from getting hit :-) I'm sure many (most?) fellow traders will find such irrational behavior pretty recognizable... Needless to say it's emotional trading like this that will eventually wipe out your account.

Once you're in a trade, you could set a fixed stop loss and take profit and either step away from your computer or at least close your trading program. An alternative is the use of an expert advisor (EA) that manages trades for you - the EA option has the advantage of being able to use 'dynamic' trailing stops, with automatic 'break even' feature, partly closing trades after reaching a certain profit, etc. The disadvantage of using a trade managing EA would be that one cannot shut down the computer, or even the trading interface (which could lead one to peeking and interfering with trades anyway, thereby being taken back to square one).

Just some thoughts...
95% of the people don't believe 100% they can win, that's why they lose
  • #111
  • Jun 2, 2014 10:34pm Jun 2, 2014 10:34pm
Quoting WilliamDa
{quote} You got it wrong man. You cannot be a full time trader overnight. It may take some time. 20% - 30% return is good initially without taking higher risk or getting stressed. Of course you can run a supermarket while doing trading on a part time basis.
It's also possible to trade 'full time' by only investing a few minutes in your trading every day :-)

This can be done by using the daily charts at the end of the day. It only takes a short time to check if there's a valid trade signal, set up your trade (fixed stop loss and take profit, or use a trade managing EA) and let the trade take care of itself. At the end of the next day, you'll either find your stop loss or take profit being hit (after which you again check for the next trade signal) or the trade being continued. Many successful traders (like Nial Fuller, for instance) advice this way of trading for beginners as well as more advanced traders (in essence for people with jobs, but of course you can use it to trade 'full time' too).

Cheers
95% of the people don't believe 100% they can win, that's why they lose
  • #112
  • Jun 2, 2014 11:06pm Jun 2, 2014 11:06pm
The question asked by the OP (original poster), is pretty much the same as asking:

Is winning in Roulette or CASINO really that hard?

It's not about being hard or easy. It's about realistic probability.

Odds are not in your favor. It has been tested over and over and over again that you cannot predict that future in these Schemes, and that the edge in FOREX is very similar to CASINOS.

Even math studies of CASINOS with millions of tests made via computer by PhD's, tell you that LONG TERM you will ALWAYS lose. Always...

Nothing else to add.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #113
  • Edited 12:31am Jun 3, 2014 12:09am | Edited 12:31am
Quoting Ronald123
{quote} It's also possible to trade 'full time' by only investing a few minutes in your trading every day :-) This can be done by using the daily charts at the end of the day. It only takes a short time to check if there's a valid trade signal, set up your trade (fixed stop loss and take profit, or use a trade managing EA) and let the trade take care of itself. At the end of the next day, you'll either find your stop loss or take profit being hit (after which you again check for the next trade signal) or the trade being continued. Many successful...
I used to think this was true as well, but keep in mind that while you see a move on the daily, the key to trading it may lie on the minute charts. Also, Nial Fuller has never demonstrated himself to be "successful" at anything other than selling his trading course that I'm aware of. Take his advice with two grains of salt. Or more...

Quoting MapleLeaf
The question asked by the OP (original poster), is pretty much the same as asking: Is winning in Roulette or CASINO really that hard? It's not about being hard or easy. It's about realistic probability. Odds are not in your favor. It has been tested over and over and over again that you cannot predict that future in these Schemes, and that the edge in FOREX is very similar to CASINOS. Even math studies of CASINOS with millions of tests made via computer by PhD's, tell you that LONG TERM you will ALWAYS lose. Always... Nothing else to add.
Dear cynic, I completely understand where you're coming from. But these Piled Higher and Deeper graduates have studied statistics, not trading. Trading is more akin to being thrown into a card game without even knowing which game it is. Until you figure out what game is being played, you have no hope of winning it. I know that sounds like the typical meta bullshit you see on these forums every day, but there is order in this chaos.
  • #114
  • Jun 4, 2014 2:46am Jun 4, 2014 2:46am
Love the way you draw comparisons to medicine. I'm just starting out on my forex journey and the metaphor really helps put things into perspective. Interesting thread.. even if I dont understand some of the terminology yet!
  • #115
  • Jun 4, 2014 3:57am Jun 4, 2014 3:57am
for me the hardest thing isn't seeing the setup, it's entering and also staying in a trade when price moves against me even just a little bit...I know it's nerves and its something i'll have to conquer!!
  • #116
  • Jun 6, 2014 2:45pm Jun 6, 2014 2:45pm
Quoting Ronald123
{quote} I'm glad you draw a comparison between the medical profession and trading forex. After a few years of study, I have to agree that they're both very similar: 1. Both are ruled and driven by (big) money 2. Both promote the illusion that there's a 'cure' (or 'fix) around the corner (it takes hard work though, decades of hard work even, but they're not worried, on the contrary, because in the meantime money is pouring in...). 3. Both try to justify the suffering and pain the patient and (95% of all) trader(s) have to go through, because there's...
If you think we're cheating you for your money then don't visit a doctor again. done!
So sorry for always replying late! But I got 2 Jobs!!
  • #117
  • Jun 8, 2014 5:04pm Jun 8, 2014 5:04pm
No,

Trading is not hard, what is hard for people attempting to become successful within this environment is satisfaction with the gains made without greed, fear, anxiety or anger....Emotion discipline is a concept for many to learn, practice and manage.
Gregory D. Alexandr
  • #118
  • Jun 9, 2014 7:04am Jun 9, 2014 7:04am
Secret in few words:

- Dont jump from system to system
- keep sound MM
- dyscipline
  • #119
  • Jun 9, 2014 8:17am Jun 9, 2014 8:17am
Trading is hard yes, but if you learn a solid approach and stick to it you'll be fine. I learned a method that's works for me for years now, trading is almost boring after awhile once you've hit profitability.
  • #120
  • Jun 9, 2014 8:48am Jun 9, 2014 8:48am
Quoting Muhammad Ezz
{quote} If you think we're cheating you for your money then don't visit a doctor again. done!
Hey doc, good to see you back. How's it going?
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