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  • #581
  • May 27, 2014 11:00am May 27, 2014 11:00am
  •  EDG
  • | Joined Feb 2007 | Status: Nothing is fixed. Keep an open mind | 229 Posts
First it must be noted that buyers will always wanna buy low and sellers wanna sell high.
Thats why you have a spread on the quote.The quote represents the best price at which buyers who wanna buy and sellers who wanna
sell express their intention. They would also have the intended size they wanna buy and sell. The size would usually be unequally matched As this is the best price so far it will be reflected in the quote as example 10bid $15 offer. No buyer will quote a bid which is higher than the offer price and no seller
will offer a price lower that the bid price shown on the quote At most it they wanna do the deal desperately, they will take up the buyers bid or the seller offer price. If no one wants to budge, then the quote will remain as it is. until someone a buyer who quote a higher buy price or seller who quote a lower sell price than previously starts to come in.and in which case a new quote will appear

Price will go up if the buyers take up all the sellers offer in the mkt at a best given price and if there are still unfulfilled
demaind, the next quote will be a higher bid and offer price. This will go on until the demand is fully satisfied and no more buyer looking to buy at the higher price and sellers sensing that slow demand less than supply will wanna sell their inventory by either lowering their price or take up whatever any buyers bid price
and this will continue until more demand than supply comes and buyers start bidding up the price again.
Simply put, this is roughtly whats going on behind the scene between buyers bid and sellers offer.
Hindsight is useless if you never learn anything out from it
  • #582
  • May 30, 2014 7:39am May 30, 2014 7:39am
I am new but I wanted to add something. Well the market is big enough to be in nobody's control and I guess that makes it random.

I have a question though, what does each amount of candlestick represent, like I know it represents the trades that is going on but how do we see it? When does one candlestick appear and when does it end? How is it determined and also in a demo account is it determined by the all the people in demo server or does it also reflect that of live server?
  • #583
  • May 30, 2014 8:13am May 30, 2014 8:13am
[quote=Ati.;7502387 I have a question though, what does each amount of candlestick represent, like I know it represents the trades that is going on but how do we see it? When does one candlestick appear and when does it end? How is it determined and also in a demo account is it determined by the all the people in demo server or does it also reflect that of live server?[/quote]

A candle stick is a period marker. For example a 4 hour candle last 4 hours and starts every 4 hours, a one minute candle last 1 minute and a new one starts every minute and so on. Hope that helps.
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #584
  • May 30, 2014 8:26am May 30, 2014 8:26am
Do big boys follow each other's and respect their orders? Current money flow is mirror of future actions and Big money exit one and enter another currency. How can retailers diversify informed flow from mm tricks? Both have big size of money and move market for bla bla reasons..
  • #585
  • May 30, 2014 8:37am May 30, 2014 8:37am
Quoting Naokia980
Do big boys follow each other's and respect their orders? Current money flow is mirror of future actions and Big money exit one and enter another currency. How can retailers diversify informed flow from mm tricks? Both have big size of money and move market for bla bla reasons..

That is very advance information and sorry but it's not something i think anyone is going to give out on a forum. But I will say this, a lot of the times that an order is placed, the currency that it is place on is normally the last one to trade, because the big guys buy into selling and sell into buying. So the spill off of this is normally on another currency that's as much as I am going to say on it. I have seen maybe 4 people on this forum who has a good idea of how money moves in FX so I know there more than one way to get the same information. It's not hard to get, just research and try to find it.
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #586
  • May 30, 2014 8:53am May 30, 2014 8:53am
Quoting saneblane
{quote} A candle stick is a period marker. For example a 4 hour candle last 4 hours and starts every 4 hours, a one minute candle last 1 minute and a new one starts every minute and so on. Hope that helps.
Thanks for explaining, but what is the point of doing this, I mean how is it informing me differently? and which one is better?

When people say bullish candle, then does it mean that all those people who pressed 'buy' in MT4 are creating this bullish candle? and depending on the closing price, it may shift from bullish to bearish?
  • #587
  • May 30, 2014 10:34am May 30, 2014 10:34am
Quoting Ati.
{quote} Thanks for explaining, but what is the point of doing this, I mean how is it informing me differently? and which one is better? When people say bullish candle, then does it mean that all those people who pressed 'buy' in MT4 are creating this bullish candle? and depending on the closing price, it may shift from bullish to bearish?
No it's not quite that simple, you are going to realize soon that 2 traders could have 2 different ways to define a bullish candle. It's up to you to decide, in the classic sense it's when price has broken out of a range or on opposing pressure going up, but there is more to it than that. Have you started trading yet?
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #588
  • May 30, 2014 10:38am May 30, 2014 10:38am
Quoting saneblane
{quote} That is very advance information and sorry but it's not something i think anyone is going to give out on a forum. But I will say this, a lot of the times that an order is placed, the currency that it is place on is normally the last one to trade, because the big guys buy into selling and sell into buying. So the spill off of this is normally on another currency that's as much as I am going to say on it. I have seen maybe 4 people on this forum who has a good idea of how money moves in FX so I know there more than one way to get the same...
It's not advanced information at all, it just shows how uninformed the retail traders are, that dont know how money flows on the markets.Ask any guy from wallstreet, everyone there knows, some of them even wrote books about them a few decades ago, so its all public.Yet nobody took the efort to read them or research it.

So the lazyness is also a factor which contributes to the losses of the retailers.If you look really deep into the retail crowd, you will find that that 90% loss number is actually not surprising at all , considering the fact that so many traders are amateours...
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #589
  • Edited 11:19am May 30, 2014 10:50am | Edited 11:19am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} It's not advanced information at all, it just shows how uninformed the retail traders are, that dont know how money flows on the markets.Ask any guy from wallstreet, everyone there knows, some of them even wrote books about them a few decades ago, so its all public.Yet nobody took the efort to read them or research it. So the lazyness is also a factor which contributes to the losses of the retailers.If you look really deep into the retail crowd, you will find that that 90% loss number is actually not surprising at all , considering the fact...
My grandfather told me long ago that things are always easy for those who know how to do them, because you already know, but for everyone else it is always hard.I read some of those wall street books too but they don't give the most important information in my view, they fall short at the very end, so not all of it might be advanced you are right, but some of it is very advanced at least how far I took it and to a trader who is now starting out reading about nothing but S/R and such and RSI and those things it is an advance way of trading.
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #590
  • May 30, 2014 11:17am May 30, 2014 11:17am
Quoting Ati.
{quote} Thanks for explaining, but what is the point of doing this, I mean how is it informing me differently? and which one is better? When people say bullish candle, then does it mean that all those people who pressed 'buy' in MT4 are creating this bullish candle? and depending on the closing price, it may shift from bullish to bearish?
THe point is that there are a massive number of trades in a given day. So there are a massive number of ticks in a day. If one were to look at all the ticks on a chart it will be hard to make sense of, there's just too much there. So one thing you can do it to filter the information. You decide what is important to you and you filter it that way. So a timeframe candle filters out a whole load of info within that timeframe and presents you the open high low and close.
  • #591
  • May 30, 2014 11:20am May 30, 2014 11:20am
Quoting SupraSense
{quote} THe point is that there are a massive number of trades in a given day. So there are a massive number of ticks in a day. If one were to look at all the ticks on a chart it will be hard to make sense of, there's just too much there. So one thing you can do it to filter the information. You decide what is important to you and you filter it that way. So a timeframe candle filters out a whole load of info within that timeframe and presents you the open high low and close.

Sure is a lot of information, and I love it. The market actually reveals itself quite well.
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #592
  • May 30, 2014 11:27am May 30, 2014 11:27am
Quoting saneblane
{quote} My grandfather told me long ago that things are always easy for those who know how to do them, because you already know, but for everyone else it is always hard.I read some of those wall street books too but they don't give the most important information in my view, they fall short at the very end, so not all of it might be advanced you are right, but some of it is very advanced at least how far I took it and to a trader who is now starting out reading about nothing but S/R and such and RSI and those things it is an advance way of trading....
You have to choose carfully the education materials, there are a lot of charlatans out there, and few good educators, i didnt said that all books wrote by traders or ex traders are good,in fact i think most of them ar cr@p, but there is always a needle in a haystack which is worth of it

When i started learning to trade, which was not very long ago, although my learning curve was exponential , i`ve read like atleast 20-25 books about trading and different concepts of the market and finance , if i was to read them again with today's knowlege, it would fit more like a comedy book rather than useful information
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #593
  • May 30, 2014 11:34am May 30, 2014 11:34am
Quoting saneblane
{quote} Sure is a lot of information, and I love it. The market actually reveals itself quite well.
To some extent everyone filters out market info. Some people are interested in big volumes going through, some people filter by number of trades or time of day or use strengthmeters covering different instruments. Some people just look at the ticker and let their subconscious work on it. Many different approaches.

A difficult thing for many new traders is to know what they're looking for in the first place. If they asked that question first, then filter appropriately, it might take less time to get to breakeven or better.
  • #594
  • May 30, 2014 11:34am May 30, 2014 11:34am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} You have to choose carfully the education materials, there are a lot of charlatans out there, and few good educators, i didnt said that all books wrote by traders or ex traders are good,in fact i think most of them ar cr@p, but there is always a needle in a haystack which is worth of it When i started learning to trade, which was not very long ago, although my learning curve was exponential , i`ve read like atleast 20-25 books about trading and different concepts of the market and finance , if i was to read them again with today's knowlege,...
How long have you been trading?
  • #595
  • May 30, 2014 11:37am May 30, 2014 11:37am
Quoting SupraSense
{quote} How long have you been trading?
A little more than 2 years, but trust me i`ve learned more in 2 years about the markets than some of use here who trades for 10 years.I`ve saw guys in this forum whom were trading for 10-15 years and still fall into the newbie's trap
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #596
  • May 30, 2014 11:44am May 30, 2014 11:44am
Quoting SupraSense
{quote} To some extent everyone filters out market info. Some people are interested in big volumes going through, some people filter by number of trades or time of day or use strengthmeters covering different instruments. Some people just look at the ticker and let their subconscious work on it. Many different approaches. A difficult thing for many new traders is to know what they're looking for in the first place. If they asked that question first, then filter appropriately, it might take less time to get to breakeven or better.
You sir are correct, are they simply don't know how to get it. I am not revealing any of my secret until I am a millionaire, and by then the greed might be so much in me that I might be even less incline to reveal anything. Forex sure is fun
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #597
  • May 30, 2014 11:59am May 30, 2014 11:59am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} A little more than 2 years, but trust me i`ve learned more in 2 years about the markets than some of use here who trades for 10 years.I`ve saw guys in this forum whom were trading for 10-15 years and still fall into the newbie's trap
Did you ever had a live account?

I watched your recent TradeExplorer account, and I saw a lot of mistakes that I consider newbie's trap. Hedging, closing only winning positions, bragging after a winning trade (and then inevitably followed by a big loss)

Today I had 6 equal sized long positions on a currency. I wanted to close 2 of them. 4 of them were positive, 2 were negative. Even if mathematically closing any one of them is the same, I closed the 2 losing positions, as opposed to what most retailers would do (which almost never close losing positions). I do this to force myself to take loses. This way I don't care anymore, and I have absolutely no problem taking a loss. No newbie mental block there.
  • #598
  • May 30, 2014 12:19pm May 30, 2014 12:19pm
Quoting Adal
{quote} Did you ever had a live account? I watched your recent TradeExplorer account, and I saw a lot of mistakes that I consider newbie's trap. Hedging, closing only winning positions, bragging after a winning trade (and then inevitably followed by a big loss) Today I had 6 equal sized long positions on a currency. I wanted to close 2 of them. 4 of them were positive, 2 were negative. Even if mathematically closing any one of them is the same, I closed the 2 losing positions, as opposed to what most retailers would do (which almost never close...
Thats only a test which i started recentrly, you didnt think that i will reveal my real method in public dont you?

As for the methodology, it doesnt matter, hedge means exactly to cover a loss until that turns around, this is not the stock market where the instrument can go to 0, in forex prices must eventually reverse, and if you can keep your equity at a good % until that happens, then you can close all trades in profit.

Just as Gekko would say: "Nothing ruins my day more than losses."
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #599
  • Edited 12:53pm May 30, 2014 12:25pm | Edited 12:53pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} Gekko would say: "Nothing ruins my day more than losses."

Man Proximus I knew you were a gekko fan but to quote him? that's on a whole other level. But wall street was a mildly entertaining movie I can say that much.
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #600
  • May 30, 2014 12:44pm May 30, 2014 12:44pm
When you close a trade in loss, what happens to your equity? Nothing. the profit/loss column already discounted that loss from the balance for you.

So why close a trade in loss? To gain room in your margin. If the prospects of a brand new trade increasing your equity out weigh those of the trade you closed, you have improved your position. Your margin has room in it for only so many trades of a size.

Now, if in your estimation, the trade you are thinking of closing will get to that point, it is cheaper to close it now, and open yourself for new opportunities.

The market is just unpredictable enough to make of this an art. You will sometimes close a trade too soon. You will sometimes close a trade too late.

With practice, however, you will be closing trades as well as anybody, and better than most, and only a really terrible method of entering trades will keep you from being profitable.

A side observation: for a breakout trader like me, Mondays and Fridays always seem to be very slow. (today I have only 45 pips so far).

Anybody else have the same observation?

And what, if anything, does it make sense to do about it?



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