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Is anyone here an institutional trader?

  • #101
  • May 28, 2014 7:33am May 28, 2014 7:33am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} We dealt in millions. Example: Counterparty A: Euro in 5 ? Counterparty B: 34/35 Counterparty A:YOURS Counterparty B:Confirmed. I buy 5 at 1.3634 Counterparty A just sold EUR 5 million against USD to Counterparty B. "Standard" per trade size could be anywhere between 3 million to 5 million of the base currency. Odd amounts of any size are also dealt, from "tiny" amounts (like the retail trader's 1 lot size) to large sizes. Yard-size amounts per trade are unheard of. Usually sizes don't go any larger than maybe 50 million in a really liquid market. Any environment less liquid and the party asking for the 50 million quote would probably have to break up his order in smaller sizes to prevent price from running away. There are no fixed contract sizes like in exchange traded futures.
True,

otherwizze there is deeper sized market there...you can liquidate 50 with ease on majors
even EURPLN 50 eur is nathing

I hitted 70 Mil EURJPY with no problem
one ticket
spread 17 pippers
interbankmarket
  • #102
  • May 28, 2014 7:40am May 28, 2014 7:40am
Great thread, Ponzi Jr!
Thanks for participating Skenobi and JacobFordX.
Awesome information.
  • #103
  • May 28, 2014 8:03am May 28, 2014 8:03am
Quoting Thaddeus
Great thread, Ponzi Jr! Thanks for participating Skenobi and JacobFordX. Awesome information.
I'm glad you found it useful...good luck
  • #104
  • May 28, 2014 9:43am May 28, 2014 9:43am
Unless you are an hedge fund manger, you will never make real money trading for an institution. Profit flows only on high levels. Be a professional trader, be a speculator, work by yourself, it's a better way and more a wealthy way. You can be millionaire in 12 months, and I will never show you the way because you have to believe to succeed.
  • #105
  • May 28, 2014 10:10am May 28, 2014 10:10am
Quoting alexx90
Unless you are an hedge fund manger, you will never make real money trading for an institution. Profit flows only on high levels. Be a professional trader, be a speculator, work by yourself, it's a better way and more a wealthy way. You can be millionaire in 12 months, and I will never show you the way because you have to believe to succeed.
Is this based on your vast experience at institutions and as a hedge fund manager?
  • #106
  • May 28, 2014 10:24am May 28, 2014 10:24am
Quoting alexx90
Unless you are an hedge fund manger, you will never make real money trading for an institution. Profit flows only on high levels. Be a professional trader, be a speculator, work by yourself, it's a better way and more a wealthy way. You can be millionaire in 12 months, and I will never show you the way because you have to believe to succeed.
I used to believe that you can make a million in a year when I was younger. In fact, you can, just like you can be a millionaire in Vegas on any given night.

But a point comes when you stop gambling and start treating your forex trading like any other business. You will stop trying to get rich and instead focus on good business practices.

Anyone who begins to start treating their trading like a business, and use sound business practices will get that million I am sure. But it will not be in one year.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #107
  • May 28, 2014 10:31am May 28, 2014 10:31am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I used to believe that you can make a million in a year when I was younger. In fact, you can, just like you can be a millionaire in Vegas on any given night. But a point comes when you stop gambling and start treating your forex trading like any other business. You will stop trying to get rich and instead focus on good business practices. Anyone who begins to start treating their trading like a business, and use sound business practices will get that million I am sure. But it will not be in one year.

Well said!! It takes time and there will be pain along the way. I wish you a quick journey to your first million JMN
  • #108
  • May 28, 2014 12:31pm May 28, 2014 12:31pm
Quoting traider
{quote} Aaaah! Is "price discovery" a prized skill?

It's a process, not a skill.

A market maker makes markets to "discover" the current price. And it doesn't take great skill to make markets. You just show your bid/ask quote and wait for someone to hit or take you.

The skill comes in not losing money while doin' it.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #109
  • May 28, 2014 1:17pm May 28, 2014 1:17pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} It's a process, not a skill. A market maker makes markets to "discover" the current price. And it doesn't take great skill to make markets. You just show your bid/ask quote and wait for someone to hit or take you. The skill comes in not losing money while doin' it.
but some one in inter bank market is losing money as either it buy or sell price move in a direction so the person on wrong side will lose.
what is the bid ask satiation when some major event hit the market, did price jump say 34/36 to 86/88 with out any inter bank trading in between?? though stop and limit orders may trigger. what tier1 will do when they saw a large stop order at some special areas i.e R/S areas,
when we see a pop corn like move did it means we are in stop loss mine filed and stop loss add more fuel to move price. what was the satiation of ask/bid during that time, as we see on 27/12 of last year. a clean sweep of stops did we have a price gap though it is not show in the charts. .
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
  • #110
  • May 28, 2014 1:52pm May 28, 2014 1:52pm
Quoting JacobFordFX
I was a market maker in Emerging Market NDF's for 12 years at a British Bank. I now trade my own incubator hedge fund. Retail trading is an extremely difficult endeavor or better put trading your own discretionary account is challenging. Trading in at a bank you have access to real-time information, you see what flows look like, what the customers (corporations and Hedge funds) are looking to do. Trading your own account is almost like trading in a vacuum. As far as a career, Banks and/or institutions are not looking for prop traders. You have to...
Thanks for the response. What about a career as a quantitative analyst? Is that something that it's possible to break into with nothing more than a masters degree? I mean, I'm about to start a 4 year Mathematics degree, which I then hope to follow up with a masters in 'Financial Engineering and Risk Management' (a course offered by ICL). From there, would I be likely to find a reasonable job in a quantitative field, or would I be rejected immediately for lack of on-the-job experience?
  • #111
  • May 28, 2014 1:53pm May 28, 2014 1:53pm
Quoting priceaction1
but some one in inter bank market is losing money as either it buy or sell price move in a direction so the person on wrong side will lose.
You're looking at each trade in isolation. Don't. The reality is, you win some, you lose some. Just because you lose on one trade (out of several dozens) in a day, doesn't mean you lose on all trades. In any case, if you lose this way often enough, you just get fired (no biggie) and only the money makers remain. Natural selection, baby.

Quoting priceaction1
what is the bid ask satiation when some major event hit the market, did price jump say 34/36 to 86/88 with out any inter bank trading in between??
Most times, it really IS as simple as that. One market maker will just bid up the market hoping someone will hit him on the bid, but in the panic that ensues, he gets taken instead, and fresh market makers continue to bid up prices until they encounter strong offers on the way up. This happens ALL the time. It's just a matter of degree.

It's a fact of trading life that you just have to suck it up.

Quoting priceaction1
though stop and limit orders may trigger. what tier1 will do when they saw a large stop order at some special areas i.e R/S areas, when we see a pop corn like move did it means we are in stop loss mine filed and stop loss add more fuel to move price. what was the satiation of ask/bid during that time, as we see on 27/12 of last year. a clean sweep of stops did we have a price gap though it is not show in the charts. .
You've more or less answered your own question, I think. As to what a tier 1 Bank will do, am not sure what you're asking. Are you asking what they will do if they saw other people's stops or what they will do if their stops get triggered?
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #112
  • May 28, 2014 2:02pm May 28, 2014 2:02pm
Quoting Ponzi Jr
{quote} Thanks for the response. What about a career as a quantitative analyst? Is that something that it's possible to break into with nothing more than a masters degree? I mean, I'm about to start a 4 year Mathematics degree, which I then hope to follow up with a masters in 'Financial Engineering and Risk Management' (a course offered by ICL). From there, would I be likely to find a reasonable job in a quantitative field, or would I be rejected immediately for lack of on-the-job experience?
What does a quantitative analyst do?

Did you actually want to trade, or do you want to analyze?

Where do you see yourself in 10 years (from graduation)? In management? Rich from trading? Rich from working for Other People?

Don't mean to sound flippant, but I think these are important questions for a young student to ask.

As for career opportunities, I'm pretty sure you can get an entry-level job in that field without any experience.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #113
  • May 28, 2014 2:17pm May 28, 2014 2:17pm
Quants:

Quantitative analysis refers to determination of how much of a 'given component' is present in a sample. This can be used in mathematics, chemistry, biology etc.

So, what do they do? What can I tell you, other than sit on their behind and seek out relevant data.

Hey, wait, that is what I do....HHHMMM.....I also trade markets as a byproduct of my life long interest in understanding behaviour....Oops, now you know I grew up outside the US.....Spelling of behaviour is correct where I am from....but not in the US, why is that...HHHMMM...Let me research...
Gregory D. Alexandr
  • #114
  • May 28, 2014 2:17pm May 28, 2014 2:17pm
@ skenobi thank you.
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
  • #115
  • May 28, 2014 2:20pm May 28, 2014 2:20pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} What does a quantitative analyst do? Did you actually want to trade, or do you want to analyze? Where do you see yourself in 10 years (from graduation)? In management? Rich from trading? Rich from working for Other People? Don't mean to sound flippant, but I think these are important questions for a young student to ask. As for career opportunities, I'm pretty sure you can get an entry-level job in that field without any experience.
As far as I'm aware, and I'm certainly no expert, quants manage risk, develops structured products and develop models for banks and traders to used. I've also read a bit about their part in developing HFT systems. Is this correct?

I find trading fascinating, but numbers are my real strength (and enthusiasm). Therefore, I'd like to find mechanical/statistical approaches to trading that suit my personality. I feel the role of a quant best fits fits this description?

10 years from graduation? If I could predict the future, I'd have retired already. To guess, I'd have to say 'making an employer rich' - I don't have the entrepreneurial qualities to do these things for myself.
  • #116
  • May 28, 2014 2:25pm May 28, 2014 2:25pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} You're looking at each trade in isolation. Don't. The reality is, you win some, you lose some. Just because you lose on one trade (out of several dozens) in a day, doesn't mean you lose on all trades. In any case, if you lose this way often enough, you just get fired (no biggie) and only the money makers remain. Natural selection, baby. {quote} Most times, it really IS as simple as that. One market maker will just bid up the market hoping someone will hit him on the bid, but in the panic that ensues, he gets taken instead, and fresh market...
"what they will do if they saw other people's stops" and did they use stop order?? if yes, what parameters they keep in mined, what technical tools they mostly look for trend direction. presently I use only cci 14 for some time otherwise only candle stick charts are on my platform.
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
  • #117
  • May 28, 2014 2:43pm May 28, 2014 2:43pm
Quoting priceaction1
{quote} "what they will do if they saw other people's stops" and did they use stop order?? if yes, what parameters they keep in mined, what technical tools they mostly look for trend direction. presently I use only cci 14 for some time otherwise only candle stick charts are on my platform.

This is what I do when I see other people's stops: I run them.

When I run stops, I don't use stops on those runs, because my targets are usually less than say 20 pips for a short term kill. Some guys go for more, I guess I'm not that greedy. I do use mental stops however in case my runs go sour. That takes discipline which the Banks pay me big bucks for.

When I run stops, trend direction is always at the back of my mind, but not a factor because, as I've implied, my targets are very short term. I don't use technical tools other than my own eyes and price action on the screen.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #118
  • May 28, 2014 2:49pm May 28, 2014 2:49pm
Quoting Ponzi Jr
{quote} As far as I'm aware, and I'm certainly no expert, quants manage risk, develops structured products and develop models for banks and traders to used. I've also read a bit about their part in developing HFT systems. Is this correct? I find trading fascinating, but numbers are my real strength (and enthusiasm). Therefore, I'd like to find mechanical/statistical approaches to trading that suit my personality. I feel the role of a quant best fits fits this description? 10 years from graduation? If I could predict the future, I'd have retired...
Sounds like you don't even have a plan for what you want in 10 years.

As for not having entrepreneurial qualities, it's something that can be developed and learnt. Don't wait till it's too late though.

Good luck!
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #119
  • May 28, 2014 3:19pm May 28, 2014 3:19pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} Sounds like you don't even have a plan for what you want in 10 years.
Were I want to be in 10 years is likely to be very different to where I am likely to be in 10 years... But still, where do I want to be in 10 years? Well, a a high paying job in a technical/financial field; a solid understanding of the markets and a consistently profitable trading system would be nice.

If wishes were horses, eh...?
  • #120
  • May 28, 2014 3:54pm May 28, 2014 3:54pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} This is what I do when I see other people's stops: I run them. When I run stops, I don't use stops on those runs, because my targets are usually less than say 20 pips for a short term kill. Some guys go for more, I guess I'm not that greedy. I do use mental stops however in case my runs go sour. That takes discipline which the Banks pay me big bucks for. When I run stops, trend direction is always at the back of my mind, but not a factor because, as I've implied, my targets are very short term. I don't use...
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so it is the skill , my thinking about that technical tools are by product of price so legging all the time., and they were developed for stock/commodities trading Forex is different ball game.
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
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