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Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #8,421
  • Apr 13, 2014 1:06am Apr 13, 2014 1:06am
Hi Mr. Pip,

I'm so glad to see you back. I have been learning from your posts and videos and still have many questions. During my practice I found it's hard to keep my position when the price goes in one direction for a very big trend as I would most likely out my positions at a structure high or at the end of a ABCD or AB=CD pattern. And it's hard for me to get a position in a trending market as in those situations the price normally only retrace 38% to 50% which is hard to get in because the Reward/Risk is not that good using the principles of aggressive C buy. I think I haven't understand the key of order flow yet and hope you can shed some light on me. For example in the chart below which shows a trending market, I'm looking at it and try to think back to see if there is a good reason for me to buy at these 4 entry points marked in it.

Point 1 is an aggressive C buy because it retrace back more than 61.8% to the dominant swing before it.
Point 2 is where I think I was not able to catch. It retraced 50% to dominant swing which isn't qualified for an aggressive C buy and didn't turn back at an obvious structure support level. What would be your principles to catch a buy point like this?
Point 3 is an aggressive C buy because it retrace back more than 61.8% but didn't close below 78.6% to the dominant swing.
Point 4 is a revisit to a previous supply zone and that's the only reason I can find. It only retraced 50% to the dominant swing. Is there any other principles you would have to buy at a point like this?

Or maybe only 1 and 3 you would open your positions and would skip points like 2 and 4?

Thank you very much!
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  • #8,422
  • Apr 13, 2014 3:35am Apr 13, 2014 3:35am
Nice thread, have subscribed, will go through posts since beginning.

About myself, I will classify myself as a newbie, still learning. Not long before I start my endeavour of trading. I am a patient by nature, and a very good listener, am looking forward to learn on this thread and if at all will try to contribute positively.

I was fortune enough to find a really good person who has helped me a lot since I started, he has guided me and inspired me in many ways, hope we all help each other in our journey. It can be a challenge sometime to keep focus but with right attitude an ignited and inquisitive mind, with a will to learn anything is possible, just believe in yourself and keep progressing

Great job Mr Pip. Keep up the good work.
  • #8,423
  • Apr 13, 2014 7:12am Apr 13, 2014 7:12am
Quoting bulleyes
Hi Mr. Pip, I'm so glad to see you back. I have been learning from your posts and videos and still have many questions. During my practice I found it's hard to keep my position when the price goes in one direction for a very big trend as I would most likely out my positions at a structure high or at the end of a ABCD or AB=CD pattern. And it's hard for me to get a position in a trending market as in those situations the price normally only retrace 38% to 50% which is hard to get in because the Reward/Risk is not that good using the principles of...
What does your trade plan call for? If you are only looking to trade traditional ABCD patterns then skip the trades that cannot be validated to the ROE for the ABCD.
If you want to look at every swing as having a potential trading opportunity then you have to incorporate curtain condition that you could use to validate the strength or weakness in that particular setup.

Fib ratios are great and extremely powerful but noting on its own is enough to justify an entry. Lets keep in mind that we must have confluence whether its structure, and expectation of a weak correction, smaller order flow pattern complete well you get the point. Do not force the issue or you are going to start seeing things that are not really there. the chart you have posted has clearly spoken to you and has given you a very clear expectation as to where it wants to go.
Find the weakest part of that correction and look left for structure and Fib confluence. How strong is that structure? What was my expectation on that pullback (shallow or deep).
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #8,424
  • Apr 13, 2014 7:14am Apr 13, 2014 7:14am
Quoting workingforex
Nice thread, have subscribed, will go through posts since beginning. About myself, I will classify myself as a newbie, still learning. Not long before I start my endeavour of trading. I am a patient by nature, and a very good listener, am looking forward to learn on this thread and if at all will try to contribute positively. I was fortune enough to find a really good person who has helped me a lot since I started, he has guided me and inspired me in many ways, hope we all help each other in our journey. It can be a challenge sometime to keep focus...
Looking forward to your contribution!!
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #8,425
  • Apr 13, 2014 10:14am Apr 13, 2014 10:14am
Good to see you back D, hope everything is ok. Looking forward to more of your insight, soon.


Regards
Aj1
  • #8,426
  • Edited 11:47am Apr 13, 2014 11:23am | Edited 11:47am
Quoting Mr. Pip
{quote} What does your trade plan call for? If you are only looking to trade traditional ABCD patterns then skip the trades that cannot be validated to the ROE for the ABCD. If you want to look at every swing as having a potential trading opportunity then you have to incorporate curtain condition that you could use to validate the strength or weakness in that particular setup. Fib ratios are great and extremely powerful but noting on its own is enough to justify an entry. Lets keep in mind that we must have confluence whether its structure, and...
Hi Mr. Pip,

Thanks for the instructions. As far as trading plan I am only able to trade ABCD patterns at this point. When there are confluences I found the rate of success is very good. However I also found that these types of perfect trading opportunities are not that many if just trading ABCD patterns. So I'm trying to figure out what kind of conditions I can include to my rules so I can also engage other opportunities like a shallow pullback during a trend. But so far I'm not successful on that and looking forward of your advice on if that's possible and if so what kind of conditions you would incorporate for this types of setups.

I'm just a beginner so please forgive me that I cannot read the chart as clearly as you do. Before point 2 is confirmed by the price actions that created new high than point D, I would expect the pullback to point 2 should be deep to 61.8% of the ABCD pattern. However it went up again at 38.2%. And from the orderflow - pullback depth, momentum, and projection of those swings before point 3, I didn't expect a long up leg like it happened after point 3.

Now at point 5, I can see it at a structural demand area, and a small abcd pattern completion, and 50% pullback of previous swing. I would like to buy at this point but the only rules I'm confident is the small abcd pattern. It doesn't qualify the aggressive C buy for the big swing from point 4. In the big picture, from the order flow - Depths, momentum and projection of previous two swings from points 3 and 4, I'm still not sure if it will make a new high or not. So can you tell me what I'm missing when reading the chart? Whether you would consider buying at point 5 and what would be your expectation?

Thanks again and regards,
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  • #8,427
  • Edited 2:18pm Apr 13, 2014 2:07pm | Edited 2:18pm
Mr.Pip

This is a stock, but would this be a valid gartley even if legs AB don't equal CD?
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  • #8,428
  • Apr 13, 2014 4:06pm Apr 13, 2014 4:06pm
Quoting bulleyes
{quote} Hi Mr. Pip, Thanks for the instructions. As far as trading plan I am only able to trade ABCD patterns at this point. When there are confluences I found the rate of success is very good. However I also found that these types of perfect trading opportunities are not that many if just trading ABCD patterns. So I'm trying to figure out what kind of conditions I can include to my rules so I can also engage other opportunities like a shallow pullback during a trend. But so far I'm not successful on that and looking forward of your advice on if...
You have to understand the fundamentals of strength and weakness before you can attempt to trade the AB=CD these concepts have been covered but have gone over mosts heads because everyone believes the patterns are what's important. You have take great time and with great detail have detailed what price did. You have not mentioned anything about your expected correction and the confluence in that zone. Please review this video I posted a while back about expectations and why it is important to have one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=siZvTjlGyIM
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #8,429
  • Apr 13, 2014 4:24pm Apr 13, 2014 4:24pm
Quoting big_pipin
Mr.Pip This is a stock, but would this be a valid gartley even if legs AB don't equal CD? {image}
Pardon my response I mean no disrespect but these are the types of questions that discourage me from this type of learning environment. I have made videos, posted the ROE and even traded live examples of the Gartley pattern but it is far easier to ask a question which only tells me you have not done the work. I am here to teach you to trade properly not to waste my time in answering questions you should already know the answer to. To tell you is not to teach you and I would be encouraging the behavior. I would like for you to tell me why this is not a Gartley pattern.

I also said that we need to get back to basics this strictly means structure and order flow. Please do not take this the wrong way but I will be much tougher and harder on you all. We must focus on what is important. I will not entertain questions that puts the work on me so that you won't have to do it. There are no days at the beach here. If i make it easy for you, you will not know what to do what the tide changes and you will drown. Then the comment will be why did you not teach us this. You will not accept responsibility and shift the blame to Mr. Pip.

You want to learn I will teach you. But I will not hold your hand I will lead you to water but you have to drink it.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #8,430
  • Apr 13, 2014 5:47pm Apr 13, 2014 5:47pm
^ because it wasn't a 618 retracement on AB.

Bat pattern spotted
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  • #8,431
  • Apr 13, 2014 6:11pm Apr 13, 2014 6:11pm
Quoting big_pipin
^ because it wasn't a 618 retracement on AB. Bat pattern spotted {image}
There you go!! Own your process don't force things to happen. Focus on structure and order flow find areas of confluence and trade with strength on your side. I want to see expectations. Have an expectation as to where price should go next. Once that happens and if there is an opportunity there the engage take it manage your trade and be accountable to the outcome. If you followed your rules and made profit great on to the next. If you lost and followed your rules that's great too next.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #8,432
  • Apr 13, 2014 9:02pm Apr 13, 2014 9:02pm
Quoting Mr. Pip
{quote} You have to understand the fundamentals of strength and weakness before you can attempt to trade the AB=CD these concepts have been covered but have gone over mosts heads because everyone believes the patterns are what's important. You have take great time and with great detail have detailed what price did. You have not mentioned anything about your expected correction and the confluence in that zone. Please review this video I posted a while back about expectations and why it is important to have one http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=siZvTjlGyIM...

Thanks again for the video Mr. Pip. Much appreciated.

I consider myself a newbie so pardon me in advance for my inexperience. His is probably an irrelevant question but..... I realize that our method (I hope I can say ours) can be used in any market, on anytime frame. I chose to stick to a few pairs in the currency market assuming this would help improve my accuracy with price meeting my expectations. In your experience are there pairs that meet your expectations greater than others and are there some pairs to stay away from? I'm only speaking of the major pairs, commodity pairs and other combination of those.
  • #8,433
  • Apr 14, 2014 1:25am Apr 14, 2014 1:25am
found this on the A/U 5min.

Long now..lets see how my first gartley plays out...
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  • #8,434
  • Apr 14, 2014 3:21am Apr 14, 2014 3:21am
Quoting big_pipin
found this on the A/U 5min. Long now..lets see how my first gartley plays out... {image}

Hi yeah I got this on mine
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Never said I was Batman,all I'm saying is you'll never see us together.
  • #8,435
  • Apr 14, 2014 4:52am Apr 14, 2014 4:52am
Good Morning All

Looking at the EUR 5 Min.

I see a water fall sell off. I see a we have made a NSL, so I am expecting a Lower High, then a push lower beyond the NSL. With this much strength I don't see my Pink structure zone being tested. This is my expectation.
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  • #8,436
  • Apr 14, 2014 5:53am Apr 14, 2014 5:53am
Update. On Eur 5 Min.

We have made NSL, then we have a HL. Short term order flow to the upside, as we have made a High, then a HH. Bulls are pushing the price higher, My expectation of the structure not being tested in danger, as I see little from the bears to push the price lower. So we could see a push into structure, the lack of commitment from the bears is a worry.
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  • #8,437
  • Apr 14, 2014 6:44am Apr 14, 2014 6:44am
Quoting Mr. Pip
Hello Traders, How has trading been? I see that any time I take some time off from the thread All kinds of crazy things go on LOL. I left you all with a clear path to consistent and profitable trading principles. I am confused and uninspired to offer you more knowledge as it is exhausting to try to keep you all on the lessons and tasks. I step away to give you space, space to practice. Time for you to master the lesson and make it your own. Instead some of you feel that it needs to be taken in this or that other direction. Should I come back and...
Dear teacher: the sun has returned, again, thank you very much, indicators, is just a stick. Because I walk without you was very difficult.
Now with his presence, the stick flew into the air.
Welcome, thank you return, I will fulfill what you tell us.
Once again thank you, and move on.
  • #8,438
  • Apr 14, 2014 7:45am Apr 14, 2014 7:45am
LOL good to see some are still around. I will post some after my session just waiting to news to settle down a bit.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #8,439
  • Apr 14, 2014 7:58am Apr 14, 2014 7:58am
Bears coming in, Price now at structure, and we have a big round number too, expectation is for a pull back. We will continue to monitor the trade. At BE now. As we continue to monitor.
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  • #8,440
  • Apr 14, 2014 8:20am Apr 14, 2014 8:20am
What are these so called "Cypher" patterns? I tried doing a search in this thread for such pattern but can't find anything, and the patterns here (http://www.trade-forex-harmonic-patterns.com/harmonic-forex-patterns.html) don't look like what's in the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN1NQlp0v3k
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