Multi-Lot Multi-Timeframe Position trading

Thanks for the encouragement. Let's hope we can all work together to make this fantastically successful.

Thanks Jackub. I hope this is making sense. I've posted an example of putting a second lot on a trade and moving the sl to BE. I'll post some examples of putting on a third lot as things go well on some pairs and of exiting trades for small losses or small profits as the market moves my trades. At the moment the market is a little slow and not creating many opportunities for illustrative screenshots, but there will be more to come.

OK, here's an example. I have to leave the computer for a couple hours to take my afternoon nap. EN bounced off the support as I thought it might and I don't want to take a loss while I sleep, so I have reset both stop losses to exit both lots and yield a +20 pip profit overall on the trade should it continue in the wrong direction. Easy peasy. This would be an example of a 2 lot exit for a small profit to cover a small entry loss. The more lots that are on when price turns against the trade, the more fun this is. Hopefully, I'll get three lots on a trade soon enough and be able to screenshot closing two for profit and letting the third run for huge profit. Any more are similar, like having 4 lots running and closing 3 for a large profit and allowing the 4th to keep running for larger profit, or having 5 running and closing 3 for large profit and letting 2 continue running for larger profit or at least some profit on stop exit.




(Note: My Calculation was a little off on that and had to move the stop up a little to be just 20 pip profit as intended, but you get the idea. That's what happens when I need a nap.)

As suspected the two lots of EN stopped out at +20 pips total profit. Most of these trades will stop out at BE or with small profits. Only the best will continue on to the next level. It's Darwinist trading. Only the strong survive. It wasn't great for this little practice account, but it served the purpose of demonstration. Additionally, I had another pair of lots on AN short that had just the same configuration and they survived. Perhaps that will be the pair to go all the way. We'll see.

The good news is I now have room in my basket for another trade or two. Scanning for possibilities now.

Did the two lot exit thing on GCad for +20. Took AJ and it took off in the wrong direction so exited for -20. Moved EJ short to BE and put a second lot on. Darwinism continues. Still looking for that first 3 lot trade of the week. When I get three lots running I'll post a screenshot. It's just a matter of time.

Hi Graviton,
I really like your thread, congratulations.....
Jumping the gun here, but once you enter a trade on a particular timeframe, do you stay with that TF for the duration of the trade(s) or do you move your trade management up through the higher timeframes as a successful trade progresses?

Good Question! My entry requires that Weekly, Daily, and H4 be trending in my direction already. In addition, I like some indication that Monthly could trend in my direction. Since they are already heading in my direction, there is no need for me to switch time frames. If price turns down enough to turn those longer time frames down, I'm going to exit anyway. if price continues up, they will all continue up. Does that make sense?

Note that's just my entry method. Use the one that works best for you. I'm sure there are several that work just fine.

Hi Gravitron,

First, I will admit that I haven't read much of this read or the latest posts, but I had to respond to your post and I plan to catch up more this weekend.

I understand your points that trend trading is essentially the same process as short-term trading, and I 100% agree, except, this is probably where you have the advantage over me... Don't take that little icon next to my name too seriously, for I have made plenty of mistakes and yet still continue to learn each and every day. I talk a big game, because I have a big system with even bigger expectations, but I would not say I am a successful trader as of yet. Simply put, the reason for that is because of my discipline (or the lack thereof).

You probably have me beat in the sense that you have identified a bias in the market and trade ONLY according to that bias. The bias is whatever you've identified as the "long term trend" and the "short term trend" merely acts as the trigger. The problem is, when you're trading the short-term only, there is no trend. So how are you supposed to identify what the bias is? As you've suggested, it is very tricky... but it can be done. And in my opinion, it MUST be identified solely off of the technicals (chart), because nothing else is even close to as accurate, if it is capable of even predicting at all.

For these reasons, I agree with your point that short-term trading is the more difficult part of trading (by 1,000,000,000,000 fold), and if you can trade successfully in the short-term (which I do not admit to as of yet), then you can certainly trade successfully in the long-term. The only difference is just waiting longer periods of time, ie: basically having patience, and that is something I am still working on when I say "I lack the discipline". Don't assume that short-term trades always start off in your direction, because they do not... Even short-term trades need time to "go the right way" (ie: drawdown).

My 2 cents!

PS: I am 1,000% confident that "MTF" is the best approach to trading. So keep it up, man! Just please don't steal my idea and start a whole new thread based on it. MTF rocks that much, you're makin' me nervous (I've had the idea for a while now)!

""suppose all the short timeframes are going up, say 1M, 5M, 15M, 30M. Suppose the H1 is going down. Suppose all the higher timeframes are going up, the H4, Daily, Weekly and Monthly. In that situation I'd say the shorter timeframes must have been going down at some previous time to drive down the H1, but they have now already turned back up to rejoin the direction of the longer timeframes. More often than not, I'd expect the H1 to turn up soon as well. Of course, I'll not enter against the direction of the market, but if H1 turns up I'd feel comfortable placing a trade. ""

handy tool to analize price position against 10EMA on every time frame is mr Arjun dashboard... I do not use this to trade, just to have quick reference where price is located. Watching 24 pairs this tool makes very easy to evaluate which pair needs closer look.

Good tool Jackub. Thanks!

Smash, I don't think anyone has to take a chance on messing up their short term trading to use this method. if you are trading shorter timeframes, trade as usual. If the trade is a successful counter-trend trade and makes, say 50 pips, take it and bank it as usual. If it is a with-trend trade and up 50, the hard part is over for a longer time frame trade. You can then put a second lot on, set stops on both to exit at +20 pip overall and let it run for a year or so. Most of the time you'll exit on a retracement with 20 pips, but you can re-enter as many times as your entry system will allow. Sometimes you'll make 200 or 2000 due to long term trend bias. Something fun to play with in demo or at a penny a pip. I currently have two trades with two lots on, AN and UChf short. Both are ahead +100 total or so for the two lots. When I get the second lot up around 75 pips or so I'll put a third one on and post the chart here. At that point I will move stops again to lock in more pips and let it keep running. Then I'm in the position trading game and I'll pyramid new lots on about every 100 pips and when there is a turn I'll take them off 2 lots at a time locking in profits for my account balance. Easy peasy. Now, if I can just get that 3rd lot trade on this week. Oh well, the market will decide.

ECad long looks like a good with-trend entry at the moment. Trying a 25 pip stop entry. We'll see.

Trying EJ and GN short. That will be my three attempts max for today.

UChf 2 lot trade exited for +22 pips. Still carrying AN short two lots from last week. Hoping that one turns into a good position trade.

One thing to note is that this is a very long term position trading strategy. There is no way to rush it. Just taking more bad entries does not help establish more good positions. Generally, I can establish only about 1 position trade a week. Last week I was only able to establish one good two lot position on AN short. I expect the results for this week to be about the same. It would be reasonable for it to take two or three months for me to establish the 10 position trades I am seeking. The good news is that leaves plenty of time for discussion, and since this is a trading discussion forum, I hope to receive some comments and questions from other traders.

The market is an ever-changing partner. Seeing VERY choppy markets due to this Ukraine problem. Moving sl to BE much faster than usual to compensate.

EG short on watch list. Longer timeframes all moving down. Shorter Timeframes moving up. Watching for shorter tf's to turn down to rejoin longer term trend.

Graviton, your style reminds me of another thread here on FF, a thread that I personally consider to be the single best material on trading I've ever read. Like yours, it was about long-term position trading, encouraged the readers to find a suitable entry methods and provided reasoning for intermediate exits. There are some differences, for one, you seem to be more conservative when it comes to actual entries. That makes me wonder if you're actually influenced by the thread mentioned or you developed a pretty similar method on your own. Please do not take this as an attack of any form, I'm genuinely interested and I know the value of what you're trying to pass to others here.

Good question. You are speaking of the Equity Millipede thread. It's an excellent thread. I've been trading multi-lot and multi-timeframe for many years, but I have read the thread and it has influenced or at least reinforced my thinking toward moving from swing trades to trading longer term position trades.

The main difference in my method and that one is I don't use hedging of my trades. Instead, when there is a major retracement, I simply exit as many lots up the pyramid ladder as necessary to show a profit on the trade and allow any remaining ones to continue running. That frees up capital to either enter new trade positions or add lots to existing trades rather than keeping it tied up in non-productive hedged trade positions. It also makes trading easier for those whose brokers don't allow hedging and it makes tracking and accounting much simpler. Trading can get overly complex in a hurry, so I always search for the simplest possible method to accomplish my goals.

I hope to be able to show the whole method via screenshots over the next few weeks. I think you'll see some similarities in the pyramiding of position trades and some differences as well. In the end, each must find their own path, but it's something to think over and perhaps try out in a demo or microlot penny-a-pip account and see if it fits the readers temperament. I will warn that this is a VERY long term method and one should expect it to take a month or more to establish the first good positions and get things going in the right direction.

Thanks for the excellent feedback and I'll try to get some more screenshots of ongoing trades posted soon.

As promised, Here is a 3-lot trade. It's NJ long. If you look at the monthly, weekly and daily you will see they are all trending strongly up. In this trade, I put on three lots, each about 75 pips apart, with about 25 pip stops. I put on Donchain channels and a few moving averages, but they aren't important. It's easy, perhaps even easier, to see with the naked eye that this pair has been trending up and is pausing at the moment.

Here I'm planning to leave the computer for a while and I don't want to risk a loss with trades that were well into the pips, so I've adjusted the stops to take some profit if things go very bad in my absence. I don't know of anyone who ever got rich fiddling with stops, so I wouldn't worry about them too much. Just don't let a big winner turn into a big loser and try not to stop out of a good position that would have made you hundreds or thousands of pips in the next few months.

Overall, My entries are simple. I'm simply entering on good momentum and breakouts on the mid and lower timeframes. I will always enter with the trend direction of the longer term trends, like Monthly, Weekly and Daily. If the trade fails, I want the failure to be as small as possible. If it succeeds, I want to be able to ride the trade in the direction of the main trend for weeks or months. I do use various indicators from time to time, but in the end all my entries are discretionary. The Donchain channel shown in the above screenshot simply shows the record of the past highs and lows for the period examined. That one is set at the default 14 periods. Of course, I can see the recent Highs and Lows without the Donchain channel, but it makes a nice visual aid sometimes. If one considers a trend as a series of higher highs and higher lows, the Donchain channel gives a quick visual record of that pattern. I also have a few moving averages in the above screenshot, but they only confirm what is visually obvious, price was moving up strongly and hit a resistance. If you care to dig around a bit you can find a possible source of this resistance to be an old trend line as shown on the weekly chart going back to April 2013. I'll post it below to save you the time. If the trendline holds and price can't move past it, I'll exit this trade with better than 100 pips and try another entry with them. If the trendline is broken by price, I'm off to the races in what I hope is good position in a good trade. Time will tell.

Update on NJ Long: Price has pushed through trendline resistance. Up +325 on the 3 lots on the pair total for an total risk of 25 pips. If price retraces I'll take about 100 pips profit off by closing the last two lots placed on the pair leaving the original lot to run for a long term position trade. If price continues up, I'll put a fourth lot on when it is about 100 pips above the last entry. I'd keep putting lots on spaced about 100 pips apart until price does turn down, which it always does eventually. Then lots will be exited 2 at a time to take profits off 100 pips at a time until the retracement ends, always leaving the longest lots running as long as possible for the long term position trade.

Moving on to other pairs pairs now. There is no real need to over analyze that NJ long pair or even look at it's chart very often since it is now an established 3 lot position trade. I can manage it now with just a quick glance at the profit column. It's almost automatic from here. The next event will be to put a 4th lot on at another +100 or remove 2 lots for +100 profit in a retracement. I'll try to post a screenshot when that happens. Let's look at entries a little closer since we never get to this point without a good one.

This all seems very simple to me, but I have been doing it for a long time, so maybe it looks odd to others. This is supposed to a discussion forum so if anyone has any questions, please fire them off for the benefit of everyone. If I know the answer I'll give it and if I don't maybe we can figure it out together for the benefit of all.

EJ and ChfJpy longs both now 70-80 pips ahead. Second lots placed on. These will also wind up as, small wins or losses or BE trades or 3 lot position trades as NJ long did. Odds are they will exit BE or with small profit or loss as most of these, maybe 4 out of 5 do. Scanning for new entries, the tricky part of this method.

Later: The first attempt to put second lots on EJ and ChfJpy long failed with -15 and -17 pip exits. Trying a second time. Per my rules, I will only try twice in a day for a particular pair entry. If this one fails, I'm done with those two pairs for the day. Most entry attempts will end with small losses, Break Evens or small wins. None of those will ever make us rich, but it's important to never take a large loss on an initial entry attempt.

I have an EU long +27 pips at the moment carried over from yesterday. I'm just letting it run to see if it can make a two lot entry or not. I have a third trade attempt with an ECad long that I just entered today on a H1 breakout and good momentum after a small retest back down failed. That will either make it or not and it will conclude my 3 entry attempts for today. This is what I do, day after day. Any questions or comments for discussion?