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"good traders trade, bad traders teach"

  • #41
  • Jan 6, 2014 3:25pm Jan 6, 2014 3:25pm
Quoting smittens4212
If what you're looking for is to be taught a profitable system (which it sounds like you are), I think skyway is spot on. Good luck. If you're looking for a trading coach or mentor who can help you on your way to understanding markets, psychology, and developing your own trading methodology based on your personality, you may have better luck. I think this is the space where you'd find most successful trading authors residing. People who have an intimate knowledge of the markets and trading in general, but were never personally able to turn this...
If I wanna become a plumber, would I knock my neighbor door for some mentoring about plumbing given that my next door is not a plumber? Definitely not, unless he was a plumber. However, specifically in trading, why I wouldn't pay for someone to mentor me even that person might sound knowledgeable and skillful in trading just as the plumber in plumbing?

Because, unlike the plumber who I can verify and apply his teaching that then i can fix things by myself, how do i Know a trading mentor that can teach me to trade profitably without knowing that he can actually do it? How do i know what he's gonna teach me is valid and valuable and practicable knowledge that I can apply to trade profitably? You're not gonna pay to learn some fancy term like naked trading, price action trading,order flow trading mindset....... right?

Psychology? while I don't discount the value of psychology in trading but if I don't know how to trade, what's the benefit of having a trading mentor who is gonna teach me about trading psychology? How psychology coach can help a boxer who can't punch or a tennis player who can't swing a ball to win a match?

Developing my own trading methodology based on my personality? Let's say I wanna be day trader who use a 1min chart to trade but the trading mentor got no concept or experience at all about short term trading, how can he help? If i wanna be a swing trader or position trader, should I consult Al brooks who is self proclaimed successful scalper on 5 min chart?
  • #42
  • Jan 6, 2014 4:33pm Jan 6, 2014 4:33pm
Quoting Chace
What are the reasons one should pay for a forex course? I'd like some genuine reasons since it makes sense that "good traders trade, bad traders teach"? Obviously if someone teaches for free it is completely different but I'm talking about all these paid courses - what are the reasons that justify making it worth a trader's time to earn money from teaching rather than trading? Your thoughts please! Chace

Because the Teacher can't trade but likely has a wife and kids and needs to make a living some how, it's called paying back on your future profits.


But in all seriousness, NO don't do it!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #43
  • Jan 6, 2014 5:10pm Jan 6, 2014 5:10pm
Quoting Chace
{quote} I don't believe there is any "system" that works, and so I'm not looking for it whether it sounds like I am or not. Here is what I am actually looking for; a few decent reasons why a profitable trader would charge money to teach others how to trade which I think has been answered. Regarding your advice about a mentor, I agree that that would help a lot more since I don't believe one can be taught an actual system. Thus if one cannot be taught a system, all we can be taught by a teacher is as you say psychology, understanding the markets...
Your points are very appreciated. I believe that any trading mentor should be profitable and should be transparent, that is, sharing with you live results and trades. There is a very excellent point posted on this thread referring to the inability to teach everything in one seminar or webinar. I so totally agree.
So if it takes so long to learn it all, it would also take equally as long to teach it all.

I find it hard to accept that a trading mentor should take that much time away from his trading, his family, his lifestyle, his whatever, to teach for free.
I would find it even harder to ask for that.

Time is money, and time is one commodity that cannot be replaced.

To get started in any industry - it is wise to at least consider learning from an experienced & active participant in whatever that industry may be - including trading.

I was in the restaurant industry for 20 years... I trained hundreds of cooks, waiters, bartenders and managers.
Guess what - I received compensation for every minute of time that I spent with each individual... and rightfully so.

I was willing to pay for my trading education... It wasn't enough for me to draw a fib tool on a chart - I needed to know what to look for once the tool was applied in relationship to price action.. I needed to know if the tool was properly applied to the chart... I needed to learn how fib confluence works... the list could go on and on

I wasn't willing to pay $10,000 or more to learn 3 fibs, a couple of moving averages and a momentum indicator. I paid a lot less to learn a lot more with my due diligence - and you can too... Best of luck to you.
  • #44
  • Jan 6, 2014 5:10pm Jan 6, 2014 5:10pm
Quoting Chace
{quote} Yep that's the premise I had when I opened this thread, hence why I wanted suggestions as to why someone good at trading would actually teach trading for a fee. There were some good reasons written above as to why, what do you think of those? That is terrible - I think I know one of the threads you are talking about. Thanks for the advice it certainly does pay to be careful.
Forex is a corrupt ruthless place where everyone is out to get your money! It is you (only you) vs the world and his dog.

In live trading we are at the mercy of the big speculator moves, stop hunting, slippage of brokers, an underfunded overleveraged retail account etc etc. Many ways to take your money. It is a battle and you are the big underdog. Most people lose and do not make money so how do these same people make good money from forex?

The way failed traders make money is by providing live trade signals, 'mentoring' or even selling systems that guarantee 1000% profit in 3 months. If you pay big $ for these things then you are still a sheep. Just one of the herd or retail traders handing over their money

If you heard of the key forex trading rule 'Preserve your capital' - this also apply to paying for signals/mentoring etc
  • #45
  • Jan 6, 2014 5:31pm Jan 6, 2014 5:31pm
Because u are loser ..that why u asking this question

The loser always think to get quick rich in one night..

the real trader always want to make money although in small amount
  • #46
  • Jan 6, 2014 6:27pm Jan 6, 2014 6:27pm
Good points you guys,

I'm grateful for your comprehensive answers - so I guess we can conclude this thread then really.

Thanks again

Chace
  • #47
  • Jan 6, 2014 6:28pm Jan 6, 2014 6:28pm
Quoting Nfp
Because u are loser ..that why u asking this question The loser always think to get quick rich in one night.. the real trader always want to make money although in small amount
Cheers mate....
  • #48
  • Jan 7, 2014 12:08am Jan 7, 2014 12:08am
Quoting Chace
What are the reasons one should pay for a forex course? I'd like some genuine reasons since it makes sense that "good traders trade, bad traders teach"? Obviously if someone teaches for free it is completely different but I'm talking about all these paid courses - what are the reasons that justify making it worth a trader's time to earn money from teaching rather than trading? Your thoughts please! Chace

May be you are right, I think the teachers may know lot of strategies but none worth for trade and the traders might get correct strategy when they enter the trading.
  • #49
  • Jan 8, 2014 5:06pm Jan 8, 2014 5:06pm
I'm always very interested in this conversation.

I don't discredit teachers, as they provide a valuable tool to completely new traders. Question becomes who do you want to be taught? as this arena is unregulated.

But keep in mind the 10,000 hr rule... trading is a skill that takes reps to be good at. Reading a book (s) about heart surgery doesn't give you the practical ability to do heart transplant. Nor does playing basketball in a camp even taught by the pros like Jordan doesn't give you the ability to play at NBA level. In addition...Professional heart surgeons make mistakes... and i'm sure their win rate isn't 100% for heart surgeries success either....

It's widely known that the best traders in the world...avg 50% win rate.

This may be off track, but barrier to entry in trading is so damn low compared other 'professions'... anyone can open up an account and start clicking away. I believe Gladwell mentioned this as well... and i'm paraphrasing here... Certain innate talent is required for certain professions/activities, but once that barrier to entry is met, it's up to hard work and experience etc... such as to play at NBA level, you gotta be at least 6'2, that's minimum barrier to entry, but just because you are 6'2 or taller doesn't mean you will be a good player if you don't play your butt off through training, practice and actual play time.

Trading is also performance based... like acting, sports, etc... few really make it. Ones do reap the glory. I don't discredit teaching someone to trade b/c I truly believe someone can be a great trader, but a horrible teacher vice versa.

In today's digital age...there are so many free sources of information online that one could educate themselves if they are willing and very disciplined to begin with. I was not a disciplined individual to begin with, even knowing the basic rules of dos and don'ts... i still do it! such as doubling down or not using stop loss etc... reason is because I was not a disciplined individual overall... had no strict regimen in my life at the time. Trading believe it or not taught me that.

I'll leave a question for others willing... " what is the real barrier to entry for trading? " could it be by having a rigid discipline, hard working, strong impulse control etc... what are some innate abilities one must have. Granted one can learn these features, but if it doesn't come naturally...or easily adapted.. it'll be nearly impossible to be successful even given the right systems etc.

It'll be like trying to get someone who has bad ADHD to become world class chess player.

At the end of the day... I think many of us including myself came to trading with seriously wrong expectations. And it's the expectations that kills or fuels someone.
  • #50
  • Jan 8, 2014 5:51pm Jan 8, 2014 5:51pm
Not to take anything away from the point you are making and not trying to be a dic but....

I hear this from brokers but that may be their profitable traders in general. Top Traders..... Hmmmmmm

Quoting Orientxpress
It's widely known that the best traders in the world...avg 50% win rate.
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
  • #51
  • Jan 8, 2014 5:58pm Jan 8, 2014 5:58pm
There are many good traders who teach. The food chain has to continue, right? With that said, I posted this in another thread. Take from it what you need...

Why would anyone share with the world how they successfully trade. ????

Answer this. How many books do you think are written about card counting and winning at Blackjack? Quite a few my friend. Do you think Casino's around the world really care? ..... Nope, they don't. (well maybe if you get too greedy.. (-: Anyway, they probably wrote most of them. If you don't already know the answer why, here it is... They have now filled your head with hopes and dreams that you have a chance. So now you're all in... The truth is, they know 95% of you will not stick to the plan. Eventually, you will be a pig and give it all back, theirs and yours, because you're human. GREED.... and you'll do it again and again and again....and Pigs get slaughtered..

So you think everyone's helping you? Ha Ha... Statistics are statistics. Just don't be a quitter and preserve your tuition....
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
  • #52
  • Jan 8, 2014 6:05pm Jan 8, 2014 6:05pm
Quoting Orientxpress
It's widely known that the best traders in the world...avg 50% win rate.
A win rate alone can't define a "best" trader. What make a trader consistent is the combination of win rate and risk reward ratio.

You can have 90% win rate and be a loser ... and you can have 10% win rate and be profitable.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #53
  • Jan 8, 2014 6:09pm Jan 8, 2014 6:09pm
Well said..... It'all about the RR

Quoting FerruFx
{quote} A win rate alone can't define a "best" trader. What make a trader consistent is the combination of win rate and risk reward ratio. You can have 90% win rate and be a loser ... and you can have 10% win rate and be profitable.
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
  • #54
  • Jan 8, 2014 6:20pm Jan 8, 2014 6:20pm
Quoting JoeNY
Well said..... It'all about the RR {quote}
No ... it's all about RR + win rate
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #55
  • Jan 8, 2014 6:24pm Jan 8, 2014 6:24pm
Forex is like swimming with the SHARKS! Someone is always trying to take the new guys money Brokers, Teachers, or someone selling the best new indicator or EA. On the flip side of the coin I personally knew two traders that had excellent trading strategies, but neither could adhere to their own rules and become profitable. Both went on to make money teaching others, and many of the students they taught that had the self control, went on to become profitable traders. So this seems to be a double edged sword in my opinion. The number one problem I would say with most traders is self control! If I could do it all over again, I wish I would have learned one simple edge and mastered it, instead of being in search of the holy grail and clogging the mind up with too much BS information.
  • #56
  • Jan 8, 2014 6:36pm Jan 8, 2014 6:36pm
It's RR and Win Rate + enough to cover STUPID days, where you just screw it up.

So basically if you making a little bit, you'll have market spike and SL you far far away and give back your little quite easily, so if you find a method that makes a little bit of cash, keep looking for better.


We all have stupid days! plan for them and accept them!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #57
  • Jan 8, 2014 6:39pm Jan 8, 2014 6:39pm
Quoting renegade
Forex is like swimming with the SHARKS! Someone is always trying to take the new guys money Brokers, Teachers, or someone selling the best new indicator or EA. On the flip side of the coin I personally knew two traders that had excellent trading strategies, but neither could adhere to their own rules and become profitable. Both went on to make money teaching others, and many of the students they taught that had the self control, went on to become profitable traders. So this seems to be a double edged sword in my opinion. The number one problem I...

For 10 easy payments I can teach you how to reformat your brain !!


Self control is tough, taken me years to get this sorted and I still have stupid days and get gambly and put a huge dent in the account, moving SL and adding more positions being stupid is the main issue, got it down to twice recently and got lucky to survive both with the account still intact, but it's better than doing it 3 times per day LOL
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #58
  • Jan 8, 2014 6:43pm Jan 8, 2014 6:43pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} For 10 easy payments I can teach you how to reformat your brain !! Self control is tough, taken me years to get this sorted and I still have stupid days and get gambly and put a huge dent in the account, moving SL and adding more positions being stupid is the main issue, got it down to twice recently and got lucky to survive both with the account still intact, but it's better than doing it 3 times per day LOL
I would have gladly paid those ten easy payments if I would have known! And I agree it takes a little time to learn how to dance with the devil.
  • #59
  • Jan 8, 2014 6:47pm Jan 8, 2014 6:47pm
Of course it's about risk reward and win rate, in combination hopefully gives you a positive expectancy in the end. I only pointed out win rate because most of us put winning as priority and avoid any hurt to the ego.

Also I'm not a broker, but currently working in a dealing desk.

  • #60
  • Jan 8, 2014 6:50pm Jan 8, 2014 6:50pm
We got ourselves a land shark here fella's... Just kidding...

Quoting Orientxpress
Of course it's about risk reward and win rate, in combination hopefully gives you a positive expectancy in the end. I only pointed out win rate because most of us put winning as priority and avoid any hurt to the ego. Also I'm not a broker, but currently working in a dealing desk.
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
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