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"good traders trade, bad traders teach"

  • #21
  • Edited 10:03am Jan 6, 2014 9:49am | Edited 10:03am
Good traders make good money from the markets. Why should they collect paltry fees from teaching others? Good traders find little reason why they should teach others to be successful.

As for good traders that teach on the side, a few may look like "good traders" to many for some good looking trades, but they're not great traders who took modest accounts into the millions.
  • #22
  • Jan 6, 2014 10:05am Jan 6, 2014 10:05am
Quoting skyway
Good traders make good money from the markets. Why should they collect paltry fees from teaching others?
You have the answer in the post just before yours. Did you read it ?
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #23
  • Edited 10:51am Jan 6, 2014 10:28am | Edited 10:51am
Quoting ddinnov
Also one thing I've noticed is that more scammy people need to prove themselves by posting up statements and 'proof' where the people who are the real deal don't give 2 shits whether you believe them or not as their rep speaks for itself.
These are 'rich traders' who can afford larger account size that everybody else go ga ga over with some reasonable results, but not good traders as in great traders.

Quote
A good reason for traders to also teach is that good or not we don't al start out with a big enough account to make good money with sensible risk. Trying to trade a small account up to a big one in a short time is for impatient losers. Building a big account in a short time without excessive risk requires another source of capitalisation. Also if a trader is in a position to help others then why not if that's what they want to do and want to diversify their income?


This means that this so called good trader at best has a reasonable method/strategy/system but not great. So have to supplement his income besides trading the markets. Tell me how great is this method/strategy/system that he's teaching you if the teacher/trader needs side income?

Read my 1st post what I think most people define 'good traders' are. And there thousands out there hoping to be taught by a 'great trader' so that they can be equally as successful but my question remains, why should such a 'great trader' teach anyone his craft?
  • #24
  • Jan 6, 2014 10:31am Jan 6, 2014 10:31am
Quoting skyway
{quote} These are rich traders with some reasonable results, not good traders as in great traders. {quote} This means that this so called good trader at best has a reasonable method/strategy/system but not great. So have to supplement his income besides trading the markets. Tell me how great is this method/strategy/system that he's teaching you if the teacher/trader needs side income? Read my 1st post what I think most people define 'good traders' are. And there thousands out there hoping to be taught be a 'great trader' so that they can be equally...
You can't separate a great and a good trader because of their account balance.

You can be a poor trader (small starting balance) but a GREAT trader ...
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #25
  • Jan 6, 2014 10:35am Jan 6, 2014 10:35am
Quoting skyway
{quote} These are 'rich traders' with some reasonable results, not good traders as in great traders. {quote} This means that this so called good trader at best has a reasonable method/strategy/system but not great. So have to supplement his income besides trading the markets. Tell me how great is this method/strategy/system that he's teaching you if the teacher/trader needs side income? Read my 1st post what I think most people define 'good traders' are. And there thousands out there hoping to be taught by a 'great trader' so that they can be equally...
So basically to sum up your point - who would sell the goose that lays the golden eggs, or more relevantly; who would sell a method to people to help them find their own goose that lays golden eggs when they themselves don't need the money since they have their own goose.
  • #26
  • Jan 6, 2014 10:41am Jan 6, 2014 10:41am
Quoting Chace
{quote} So basically to sum up your point - who would sell the goose that lays the golden eggs, or more relevantly; who would sell a method to people to help them find their own goose that lays golden eggs when they themselves don't need the money since they have their own goose.
If you want such a great trader whom you and everybody else is hunting high and low for, share out loud why should such a trader be teaching others, that's what you and everybody else should be doing - let him/her read it.

Convince this great trader lurking out there in the ocean that there's a reason for this person to teach you or anyone else.
  • #27
  • Jan 6, 2014 10:45am Jan 6, 2014 10:45am
Quoting ddinnov
I've seen quite a few good traders who are also good teachers. There's one popular thread here that's been here since 2005 which has a paid forum run by good traders who teach. I'm sure there are plenty of people ready to jump all over it screaming all kinds of blue murder but the test of time is what it is. Also one thing I've noticed is that more scammy people need to prove themselves by posting up statements and 'proof' where the people who are the real deal don't give 2 shits whether you believe them or not as their rep speaks for itself. A...
True, but if the reason is a small bankroll, if they are consistently profitable they could get funded by an external source.
  • #28
  • Jan 6, 2014 10:48am Jan 6, 2014 10:48am
Quoting Chace
{quote} True, but if the reason is a small bankroll, if they are consistently profitable they could get funded by an external source.
The original post by ddinnov stated clearly they're trading since 2005, yet till today(9yrs) they still need to supplement their income by teaching?
  • #29
  • Jan 6, 2014 10:51am Jan 6, 2014 10:51am
Quoting skyway
This means that this so called good trader at best has a reasonable method/strategy/system but not great. So have to supplement his income besides trading the markets. Tell me how great is this method/strategy/system that he's teaching you if the teacher/trader needs side income?
You're saying that the trader in question has only a "reasonable method/strategy/system but not great" because they aren't turning a small account into a large account over a short period of time?

IMO a good trader makes steady sensible gains which when followed would turn a small account into a large account over a longer period of time. I think most people fail in trading because they try too hard to be 'great traders' and blow up their accounts being too aggressive.

Also diversification can help one trade better without pressure of having one source of income that can go through losing periods.

Just my view as one constant I've seen among good traders is that sensible risk and steady returns are more important than trying to be a hero and hit over aggressive targets.

Of course there are exceptional traders and lucky gamblers who have "got rich quick" but IMO this is rare and not teachable - you only see it in marketing material for scams and rubbish.
Anything can happen.
  • #30
  • Jan 6, 2014 10:52am Jan 6, 2014 10:52am
Quoting skyway
{quote} If you want such a great trader whom you and everybody else is hunting high and low for, share out loud why should such a trader be teaching others, that's what you and everybody else should be doing - let him/her read it. Convince this great trader lurking out there in the ocean that there's a reason for this person to teach you or anyone else.
That's my whole point of making this thread to ask why anyone would teach trading for a fee, it's just a discussion, a chance for us to get advice and see what others think about the common argument "good traders trade, bad traders teach".


Maybe because they're out there in the ocean that's why they don't know people are looking for them...
  • #31
  • Jan 6, 2014 11:00am Jan 6, 2014 11:00am
Quoting ddinnov
{quote} You're saying that the trader in question has only a "reasonable method/strategy/system but not great" because they aren't turning a small account into a large account over a short period of time? IMO a good trader makes steady sensible gains which when followed would turn a small account into a large account over a longer period of time. I think most people fail in trading because they try too hard to be 'great traders' and blow up their accounts being too aggressive. Also diversification can help one trade better without pressure of having...

Your opinion is a common one shared by many all over ff and many forums.

If you care to dissect what you said in detail you'll find you cannot be right. But that's another topic altogether.

The error lies in your yardstick of what's 'good' and what's 'great'.
  • #32
  • Jan 6, 2014 11:03am Jan 6, 2014 11:03am
Whatever you say mate
Anything can happen.
  • #33
  • Jan 6, 2014 11:30am Jan 6, 2014 11:30am
Quoting Chace
{quote} True, but if the reason is a small bankroll, if they are consistently profitable they could get funded by an external source.
Everything takes time. External sources (for instance brokers) will not fund any trader without first seeing verified account results, say 6 months minimum. After providing this initial proof (credentials) to their satisfaction, the trader usually is given a small account to trade. If after say 6 months they like what they see, then and only then, is the trader given a larger account to trade and starts getting things going his way.

Likewise an aspiring trader looking for payed trading lessons should first require to see the credentials of any potential trading teacher. It would only be foolish not to do so. An aspiring trader that doesn't require to see these credentials is already a failed trader imo, as he is willing to trade his money and time for potentially nothing.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #34
  • Jan 6, 2014 11:39am Jan 6, 2014 11:39am
Quoting vox dei
{quote} Everything takes time. External sources (for instance brokers) will not fund any trader without first seeing verified account results, say 6 months minimum. After providing this initial proof (credentials) to their satisfaction, the trader usually is given a small account to trade. If after say 6 months they like what they see, then and only then, is the trader given a larger account to trade and starts getting things going his way. Likewise an aspiring trader looking for payed trading lessons should first require to see the credentials...
Great points and yes not doing your research on the educator is the same as entering the market at random. talking about the amount of time one has been trading for - I think if a trader hasn't been funded due to not having enough months behind them, they shouldn't be looking to teach at that point either because again they don't have that many months behind them.
  • #35
  • Jan 6, 2014 12:11pm Jan 6, 2014 12:11pm
Just like the general assumptions or beliefs that 90% of traders out there are failure traders so I don't think the majority of trading mentor are profitable traders. Therefore I see no value at all in teaching by these co called trading mentors unless one can provide a detailed profitably track record that I can inspect. Without that information, I suggest one should never pay for any kind of trading mentors regardless of how knowledgeable or popular they are.
  • #36
  • Jan 6, 2014 1:06pm Jan 6, 2014 1:06pm
If what you're looking for is to be taught a profitable system (which it sounds like you are), I think skyway is spot on. Good luck.


If you're looking for a trading coach or mentor who can help you on your way to understanding markets, psychology, and developing your own trading methodology based on your personality, you may have better luck. I think this is the space where you'd find most successful trading authors residing. People who have an intimate knowledge of the markets and trading in general, but were never personally able to turn this into consistent returns.


The latter is not going to give you a system, it's not going to guarantee you profitability, but it may help establish a framework for success.
  • #37
  • Jan 6, 2014 1:31pm Jan 6, 2014 1:31pm
First off, most of those teachers are teaching in hindsight, something anyone can do. It takes years of screen time to understand how the market flows, only then are you going to understand how to enter and exit your positions based on risk-to-reward (risk-to-reward is very important!). Those guys can't pack years of information into one seminar, along with all the emotions that are involved. People get suckered in by the "Get rick quick!" scheme. The Forex market is not a get rich quick method. If you catch on, expect to take five steps forward, two steps back. It took me awhile to pick-up how important support and resistance levels are; I stuck to a specific price action method at those levels with proper risk-to-reward and have been profitable since. It didn't happen overnight!
  • #38
  • Jan 6, 2014 2:32pm Jan 6, 2014 2:32pm
Quoting smittens4212
If what you're looking for is to be taught a profitable system (which it sounds like you are), I think skyway is spot on. Good luck. If you're looking for a trading coach or mentor who can help you on your way to understanding markets, psychology, and developing your own trading methodology based on your personality, you may have better luck. I think this is the space where you'd find most successful trading authors residing. People who have an intimate knowledge of the markets and trading in general, but were never personally able to turn this...
I don't believe there is any "system" that works, and so I'm not looking for it whether it sounds like I am or not. Here is what I am actually looking for; a few decent reasons why a profitable trader would charge money to teach others how to trade which I think has been answered.

Regarding your advice about a mentor, I agree that that would help a lot more since I don't believe one can be taught an actual system. Thus if one cannot be taught a system, all we can be taught by a teacher is as you say psychology, understanding the markets and developing a your own style of trading, yet most courses seem to be focused on teaching "the system" rather than the other factors.

After thinking about it for a while, personally if I had a passion for educating others and I had proven myself in the markets as a consistently profitable trader, I would educate for free since it is my hobby and my passion and I would live off my actual trading, besides there is no system to teach, so all I would teach is psychology, market behavior, my experience and advice etc etc and I certainly wouldn't be charging for it, but that is just what I would do.
  • #39
  • Jan 6, 2014 2:52pm Jan 6, 2014 2:52pm
Quote
. After thinking about it for a while, personally if I had a passion for educating others and I had proven myself in the markets as a consistently profitable trader, I would educate for free since it is my hobby and my passion and I would live off my actual trading, besides there is no system to teach, so all I would teach is psychology, market behavior, my experience and advice etc etc and I certainly wouldn't be charging for it, but that is just what I would do.

You would still be labeled as a fraud, by most. People are going to stray away from your guidance and blame your teachings for their mistakes. They are going to see your success as a holy grail, bet the bank, go bust and then vent towards you. Just read most of the crap posted on this place. In my opinion, you'd need to teach a small private community, not something open to everyone like FF.
  • #40
  • Jan 6, 2014 3:12pm Jan 6, 2014 3:12pm
Quoting Hoops McCann
{quote} You would still be labeled as a fraud, by most. People are going to stray away from your guidance and blame your teachings for their mistakes. They are going to see your success as a holy grail, bet the bank, go bust and then vent towards you. Just read most of the crap posted on this place. In my opinion, you'd need to teach a small private community, not something open to everyone like FF.
Yep so imagine if someone actually charged to teach others
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