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  • #481
  • Dec 22, 2013 3:11pm Dec 22, 2013 3:11pm
Quoting Turveyd
Maybe Canadian French don't surrender fast enough ??

I am going to, for the sake of harmony, distance myself from this comment...but, it is damn funny!

Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #482
  • Dec 22, 2013 3:14pm Dec 22, 2013 3:14pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} I am going to, for the sake of harmony, distance myself from this comment...but, it is damn funny!

Well it can't be too fast can it

I actually like the French, there anarchistic, grumpy and far from PC and I hate PC!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #483
  • Dec 22, 2013 3:28pm Dec 22, 2013 3:28pm
Quoting tradista
nitecop Are you saying you are trading millions using an EA thats in the public domain or something like that? thanks for your insight, it's very welcome.

the concept is there in ea's that I normally see in contests however it needs to be modified a bit and applied correctly with proper infrastructure, many times I see the programmers themselves clueless. The program do it's job provided the conditions it's set in is right, and that's exactly your job.

my specialty is in statistical arbitrage, in order to apply an algorithm (I'm assuming that is what you mean by EA) you cannot use metatrader, you NEED to have quality and accurate data feed for algorithms to work properly and DOM (to judge liquidity and market state). In my case I also need speed, and for me every millisecond counts, so I pay a lot for servers physically near an interbank node with the industrial grade network speed in order to save a few ms in travel time; but these are mostly for my strategy needs. My algorithms run 24/5 however I am actually a smaller trader compared to billion dollar investment funds because they literally spend millions creating a more physically close and direct internet line to the servers so they save a 1 or 2 ms! They also use more sophisticated algorithms that are AI/neural networks; they involve machine self-learning and adapt (currently I am only experimenting with them)

And I apologise for my English, It is indeed my second language!
  • #484
  • Dec 22, 2013 3:39pm Dec 22, 2013 3:39pm
Quoting nitecop
{quote} the concept is there in ea's that I normally see in contests however it needs to be modified a bit and applied correctly with proper infrastructure, many times I see the programmers themselves clueless. The program do it's job provided the conditions it's set in is right, and that's exactly your job. my specialty is in statistical arbitrage, in order to apply an algorithm (I'm assuming that is what you mean by EA) you cannot use metatrader, you NEED to have quality and accurate data feed for algorithms to work properly and DOM (to judge...
Some country just laid there own fibre optic line with a shorter path than before to shave 60ms's off the transfer time at the cost of millions to do just this above, scarey amounts of money.

That's some seriously heavy duty work and expense gone into this, normally only done by banks / big organisations.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #485
  • Dec 22, 2013 9:13pm Dec 22, 2013 9:13pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} A while back, whilst sifting through some posts by RonaldRaygun, I came across some of his ideas stating that he works with some 28 EAs, but will select the ones he feels are relevant to the price action and trading ranges. My first thought, Bullshit! That's when I thought that a Moving Average EA was going to be the end all to my own personal need for live trading and I could just sit back and reap the rewards of it...I was naive in this thinking and have through the works of others, picked up on a few things. Automating a single trigger...

you are the closest in thinking in terms of automation, here we manage the bots instead of trades directly; the reason behind it was, if you have a system the computer will always follow it better and faster as long as you tell it to; therefore having consistency and clean results according to your rules. when I first started this is exactly what I did before I got into StatArb when I started to understand the mathematical nature of things and probabilities and having a reliable way to gauge normal market conditions.
  • #486
  • Dec 23, 2013 2:51am Dec 23, 2013 2:51am
Thank you Nitecop for showing us a different approach to look at trading in general. I believe that is the way to go, managing a machine/process and not the trades themselves. Machines don't have emotions, they can process more factors than most of us can and they do it faster. I never thought forex was to become such a school/teacher for those willing to learn.
  • #487
  • Dec 23, 2013 3:10am Dec 23, 2013 3:10am
Being thinking automating the entry side, and picking which ea to use myself, get it to email my phone so i can watch on that and handle the exit, use an advanced trailing method incase I'm not around /miss it, or if it lookslike a longer term hold pick a suitable ea exit strategy.

With fxcm and tradeinterceptor for my mobile app pass through, so don't if I can use mt4 or how good fxcm's ea builder is.



Guess thats the 2014 plan.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #488
  • Dec 23, 2013 8:54am Dec 23, 2013 8:54am
Quoting Turveyd
Being thinking automating the entry side, and picking which ea to use myself, get it to email my phone so i can watch on that and handle the exit, use an advanced trailing method incase I'm not around /miss it, or if it lookslike a longer term hold pick a suitable ea exit strategy. With fxcm and tradeinterceptor for my mobile app pass through, so don't if I can use mt4 or how good fxcm's ea builder is. Guess thats the 2014 plan.
Trigger code, depending on what you are using to define the trigger can be the easiest piece of code to copy and paste together.

After that, if it is a trail stop that you are looking for, and want to define your own trigger parameters, I can steer you in a couple of good places.

If I can figure this shit out, should be a breeze for you Turv.

Prior to working with these EAs, the last pieces of code I threw together were on a TRS-80 and Apple IIe.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #489
  • Dec 23, 2013 1:26pm Dec 23, 2013 1:26pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} Trigger code, depending on what you are using to define the trigger can be the easiest piece of code to copy and paste together. After that, if it is a trail stop that you are looking for, and want to define your own trigger parameters, I can steer you in a couple of good places. If I can figure this shit out, should be a breeze for you Turv. Prior to working with these EAs, the last pieces of code I threw together were on a TRS-80 and Apple IIe.

Easy on the entry rules to code, I can likely exit better than a trail, but it would stop me missing setups and force me to trade.

I had the dragon 32 same as trs80, green green and yep more green, learnt to code on that 30 years ago, basic and assembly.

Be a few month, too much like my day job.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #490
  • Dec 23, 2013 1:52pm Dec 23, 2013 1:52pm
The problem is you also need accurate historical data by the tick, I don't think metatrader has that especially with the broker manipulating that data as well to facilitate their trades for MM or large spread purposes. you will not get accurate probabilities and proper results on approximations; a good system will fail on such an infrastructure. think of data feed like electricity; if it keeps fluctuating rather than being precise, your equipment will blow up and fry.
  • #491
  • Dec 23, 2013 2:09pm Dec 23, 2013 2:09pm
Quoting nitecop
The problem is you also need accurate historical data by the tick, I don't think metatrader has that especially with the broker manipulating that data as well to facilitate their trades for MM or large spread purposes. you will not get accurate probabilities and proper results on approximations; a good system will fail on such an infrastructure. think of data feed like electricity; if it keeps fluctuating rather than being precise, your equipment will blow up and fry.
If that's to me, don't need any kinda accuracy so that's fine, its more best guess.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #492
  • Dec 23, 2013 4:17pm Dec 23, 2013 4:17pm
Quoting nitecop
The problem is you also need accurate historical data by the tick, I don't think metatrader has that especially with the broker manipulating that data as well to facilitate their trades for MM or large spread purposes. you will not get accurate probabilities and proper results on approximations; a good system will fail on such an infrastructure. think of data feed like electricity; if it keeps fluctuating rather than being precise, your equipment will blow up and fry.
Working with Statistical Arbitrage would make accurate historical tick data important.

Not really the level we are working...

I am fine with something trading that mimics my what would be live triggers in an automated setting. Small ranges, small profits, consistent gains...

Pshhhhhhhhhh

That's all I need and can gain that with a very base knowledge and a piece of freeware.

There's prolly shit you could show me that'd blow my mind. Some day, I might make that level. If not, with a very small amount of effort, I can continue on my path and easily guide others through the same.

A little better on anything I got working HERE, or a combination of the best winners...currently, my idea of a good time.

These are some of the tools I use for triggers in. Getting out, just a simple analysis and the push of a button. These trip dimes for short ranges, in live I use a little larger lot size and pair dependent.

No, I'm not trying to impress you and certainly nothing here worth bragging about. Just a sample of the level I work at.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #493
  • Dec 23, 2013 5:57pm Dec 23, 2013 5:57pm
A short true story. A few years ago my partners and I developed an EA that arb the forex, jumping in and out taking little bites out of the market. We opened a live $50,000 account at fxdd after being promised that their feed and platform they were offering was a true ecn with no interference, so off we went and started running our program. Within a few hours it was working like an atm machine giving out money, then all the sudden we started getting lags on our execution. FXDD SWORE they weren't doing anything but it was obvious they were. We eventually got a call from a VP of operations who basically told us whatever program we were running will put them out of business so they put a lag counter program against our entries. At that point we knew we were on to something that worked but we had to take it to the next step which was to open another live account at a true prime broker. Their minimum deposit was $250,000 which we deposited. At this point we had purchased a super computer for the fastest possible execution. We rented a small office close to the broker so execution would be instantaneous and off we went. Sure enough the EA started printing out cash again and sure as shit all the sudden trades started getting lagged. Again this broker swore they were not doing anything but it was clear they were. So we decided to take it to the final level to get rid of all possible interference. We opened up our own Prime account ($500,000) with a bank meaning our own money was our leverage, our trades would go directly into the price stream with NO interference. Things got off to a fast start. The EA was making money but then just like before execution started to lag and the number of trades and execution became less and less. When our EA would take a trade, it would find the best price of the 10-12 different banks offering price at that moment. It seems our EA kept hitting the price off one particular bank (obviously because their price feed best fit our EA) that bank turned around and told the broker to either shut off that particular account(ours) or they would cut their price feed to the broker. Keep in mind this EA arb the market with HFT high frequency trades jumping in and out in millaseconds. In the end we shelved the EA realizing the forex is rigged against this type of trading. We withdrew our monies and profits and moved on. Maybe an EA where pin point execution is not a priority and that stays in trades longer then 10 seconds might work great. Something where any interfernce from the broker won't jeopardize the outcome of the trade. Just my experience!
Enter Signature
  • #494
  • Dec 23, 2013 6:34pm Dec 23, 2013 6:34pm
Quoting jamesr24
A short true story. A few years ago my partners and I developed an EA that arb the forex, jumping in and out taking little bites out of the market. We opened a live $50,000 account at fxdd after being promised that their feed and platform they were offering was a true ecn with no interference, so off we went and started running our program. Within a few hours it was working like an atm machine giving out money, then all the sudden we started getting lags on our execution. FXDD SWORE they weren't doing anything but it was obvious they were. We eventually...

It's a good story, James.

Maybe NiteCop can lend a little to this...

My curiosity on something like this steers in the direction of entries and exits.

Now, currently, as an example, I have my next_gen EA running. Been going on for about a month now and has churned over $1000 on $5000, or just over 22%. Okay, so, really not the ATM that you guys were probably playing with, but at the same time, with an 9% Max Draw, 22% gains, really not that terrible.

So, what if, on an EA like this, you add in your little arbitrage code and add a half pip per trade or per net trade on entry and exit...

844 trades, closed take a half pip in and half pip out and that's about 844 more pips per month and the brokers don't really say fuck all, because these aren't trading in and out on the millisecond.

Add the size of account that you have the cash for and instead of trading between the spread you take it on the direction and hit percentage rate of something like my little dogshit EA...

Churn the money and what could the banks n brokers conceivably say?

Get past my little dogshit trader, and work with all of the other commercial pieces of dogshit to add an additional X% per month to their trade results and take a small piece of the pie. This way, because of the code being spread across a wide sweeping board, you could still take your minimal gains on a zillion accounts and have this feed your account in a different direction.

I mean, there's how many pieces of commercial software out there. You take their code and show them a little to make a little per trade, split the difference with them and add these up...really, still doing the same thing, just in a way that really couldn't be detected and couldn't be countered. Without throwing a half mill on the line and setting up shop next to your Broker, you are basically raking in the cash without any actual risk...

No?
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #495
  • Dec 23, 2013 6:42pm Dec 23, 2013 6:42pm
I am not understanding what you are suggesting?
Enter Signature
  • #496
  • Dec 23, 2013 6:52pm Dec 23, 2013 6:52pm
Quoting jamesr24
I am not understanding what you are suggesting?

Most of the code I work with is a patchwork quilt.

I have, for all intents and purposes a Base Swiss Army EA. Meaning it has a lot of bells n whistles, and really all I do, is change the triggering and time frame.

From here, I have taken a code that can only be traded on the higher timeframes with a massive amount of risk, to something that continuously and consistently makes profit on a small scale.

If I took that $1000 and turned it into $1020, there is a net gain of $20 or 2% extra on return.

You incorporate your code that can help make this extra $20, and collect from Each commercial EA reseller and they collect from each customer.

Split the $20, they get 10, you get 10.

Smaller scale...

In return, each of their customers have all the risk, you are only taking 1% per month on gains per trade. If the fucker blows up...guess what? You are still in bank.

Basically the same idea as a prop trader, but working with a network of others to generate an income.

Get it?
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #497
  • Dec 23, 2013 7:55pm Dec 23, 2013 7:55pm
Quoting jamesr24
A short true story. A few years ago my partners and I developed an EA that arb the forex, jumping in and out taking little bites out of the market. We opened a live $50,000 account at fxdd after being promised that their feed and platform they were offering was a true ecn with no interference, so off we went and started running our program. Within a few hours it was working like an atm machine giving out money, then all the sudden we started getting lags on our execution. FXDD SWORE they weren't doing anything but it was obvious they were. We eventually...
Good post, would you have the same problems by trading futures currency?
Wherever you go, there you are.
  • #498
  • Dec 24, 2013 5:27am Dec 24, 2013 5:27am
Quoting jamesr24
A short true story. A few years ago my partners and I developed an EA that arb the forex, jumping in and out taking little bites out of the market. We opened a live $50,000 account at fxdd after being promised that their feed and platform they were offering was a true ecn with no interference, so off we went and started running our program. Within a few hours it was working like an atm machine giving out money, then all the sudden we started getting lags on our execution. FXDD SWORE they weren't doing anything but it was obvious they were. We eventually...
You my friend would benefit from Dark Pool Liquidity, all trades are processed anonymously especially extremely large ones as to not alert market or hide from other algos hunting them down as well as stealthy algos; it is something I am researching as well because I too have a ceiling for my algo. I know this is the problem I will face too when my trades get too big, this is why I do not increase beyond the point what liquidity can comfortably offer me. In my case that happens to be 50 million trade size limit (not that I currently trade at this level, but it is my max limit)

edit: for the record, I too had an experience like this from a retail broker when I first started and I swore to never go in that direction again!
  • #499
  • Dec 24, 2013 5:31am Dec 24, 2013 5:31am
Quoting Magix
{quote} Working with Statistical Arbitrage would make accurate historical tick data important. Not really the level we are working... I am fine with something trading that mimics my what would be live triggers in an automated setting. Small ranges, small profits, consistent gains... Pshhhhhhhhhh That's all I need and can gain that with a very base knowledge and a piece of freeware. There's prolly shit you could show me that'd blow my mind. Some day, I might make that level. If not, with a very small amount of effort, I can continue on my path and...

I like your consistency, however I'm curious I did see one of your bots called Christmasbot around here, what is it based on? I saw another trader use it very successfully so I hope he dint copy yours! The bot I know is a price action algorithm translated to java.
  • #500
  • Dec 24, 2013 6:42am Dec 24, 2013 6:42am
Quoting nitecop
{quote} I like your consistency, however I'm curious I did see one of your bots called Christmasbot around here, what is it based on? I saw another trader use it very successfully so I hope he dint copy yours! The bot I know is a price action algorithm translated to java.

I kinda play with the idea that, many hands make light work and share my knowledge by way of automated traders with the house.

For the most part, they are very simplistic Grid EAs, indicator trigger based.

Nobody has copied what I have, there really isn't much reason. Donations to charities, minimum $5, and I send it off to who ever meets the criteria.

See HERE.

Others, are shared because I have started working with the code here at FF and continue to develop them through the eyes of others, no donation required as posted HERE.

Sure there are some things that I keep to myself, but with the help of others on time frames, ranges and settings, I have brought these into a somewhat reasonably prosperous venture with only needing a minimal amount of investment. Risk is always on the table and much the reason I urge others to educate themselves long before running live.

I don't run fully automated. I still haven't gained complete trust of any single broker, pair nor time frame...but I still use these triggers for live accounts and steer them in where I feel the trend lies. These are my beer money traders. And I really like beer.

Best of the Season Nite.

I look forward to seeing more of you in print. You seem the sort to offer enough through your words to inspire me onto further levels.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
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