Does 'volume' of MT4 show the tick volume of the market? | Forex Factory

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Does 'volume' of MT4 show the tick volume of the market?

  • #1
  • First Post: Dec 21, 2013 2:08am Dec 21, 2013 2:08am
Hello all,

I have a question about "volume" of MT4. Does volume of MT4 show the tick volume of the whole forex market or only the tick volume at the retail broker where the MT4 is resided ?

If it only shows the tick volume at the retail broker, then all volume analysis based on tick volume of MT4 is useless because the major price movers are big institutions. Big institutions trade at inter-bank platforms instead of retail brokers. And their trading behavior is significantly different from that of retail traders. Tick volume at retail brokers is not indicative of tick volume of big institutions.
  • #2
  • Dec 21, 2013 2:13am Dec 21, 2013 2:13am
Quoting pooh123
Hello all, I have a question about "volume" of MT4. Does volume of MT4 show the tick volume of the whole forex market or only the tick volume at the retail broker where the MT4 is resided ? If it only shows the tick volume at the retail broker, then all volume analysis based on tick volume of MT4 is useless because the major price movers are big institutions. Big institutions trade at inter-bank platforms instead of retail brokers. And their trading behavior is significantly different from that of retail traders. Tick volume at retail brokers is...
Volume in MT4 is just a tick counter ... nothing else.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #3
  • Dec 21, 2013 2:16am Dec 21, 2013 2:16am
Hi FerruFx,

The question is, does it counter the ticks of the whole forex market, or only the ticks at the retail broker ?
  • #4
  • Dec 21, 2013 3:29am Dec 21, 2013 3:29am
Quoting pooh123
Hi FerruFx, The question is, does it counter the ticks of the whole forex market, or only the ticks at the retail broker ?
It counts the ticks coming in your platform. In other words, each time you see the price on your chart move (incoming tick), volume increases by 1 ...

That's a tick counter. It has really nothing to do with volume ... just the name.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #5
  • Dec 21, 2013 4:51pm Dec 21, 2013 4:51pm
Quoting pooh123
Hello all, I have a question about "volume" of MT4. Does volume of MT4 show the tick volume of the whole forex market or only the tick volume at the retail broker where the MT4 is resided ? If it only shows the tick volume at the retail broker, then all volume analysis based on tick volume of MT4 is useless because the major price movers are big institutions. Big institutions trade at inter-bank platforms instead of retail brokers. And their trading behavior is significantly different from that of retail traders. Tick volume at retail brokers is...
Exactly. And ferrufx is dead on. What is pitiful to see is there are whole threads made, systems developed, indicators and EAs written about something fictitious. That should tell us something about TA in general.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #6
  • Dec 21, 2013 5:19pm Dec 21, 2013 5:19pm
  •  Owl
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: FX Siphoner Of Symphonies | 435 Posts
The indy is not ficticious because it's something we all can download and put on a chart

so indeed it is apart of reality.....now we can say most the concepts on how to use this indy

that is created based off of incoming ticks into the platform is fictitious....but any

indicator for any platform whether custom or standard is only a creation built and based

off of what price does so how can the whole use of TA be questioned when all TA basically

is, is just reading what price is producing and doing with a tool
One Must Use A Noble Rapier To Pierce The Veil Of Mystery
  • #7
  • Dec 21, 2013 8:51pm Dec 21, 2013 8:51pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Exactly. And ferrufx is dead on. What is pitiful to see is there are whole threads made, systems developed, indicators and EAs written about something fictitious. That should tell us something about TA in general.
What's "pitiful" imo is that most people who make these types of assumptions, first don’t have a clue and have not educated themselves to the type of markets they participate in. "Auction Markets" whether or not its Auctions that have "cleared volume" (e.g. CME) or an Auction market using tick vol. (e.g. Forex). It doesn't matter if your trading cattle, or cash an Auction is an Auction, will always be an Auction. Tic data is actual "real" Market data. If you're going to trade you would want to use real market data for your analysis. The "volume" of tics, the "distribution" of tics, the "ratio" of tics, etc., that kind of data is actual market data produced by the market itself. Its real time data, its "Feedback" of traders’ actions and reactions. It's the only type of analysis, imo, that I have found that tells you the actual "condition" of the market and allow you to analyze traders "intent". I would prefer to base my trade decisions on "Real" data that is generated by and actually comes from the "Market" itself. Unlike Ma’s, Oscillators, Elliott's, Murray's, etc. those types of analysis use only one actual piece of "Real" market info, the "price". Nowhere in that equation tells you anything about the "Condition" of the market. It takes one variable "price" and the projects a mathematical calculation upon it, that is outside & independent of the market, and magically you know the "Condition" of the market? It does not tell you anything about the market itself. What I find I find pitiful, is that people would prefer to base their trade decisions based on one piece of market info "price" and project some math calculation upon it, than making their trade decisions based on "Real" market data & info that comes directly from the market itself, "Tic data"…………. Tic data shouldn't be used for "Technical analysis" rather "Quantitative Analysis"............I trade using tic data every day, there is nothing "fictitious" about trading with "Real" data that is generated & comes from the market itself..... No mathematical formula projected on to a single piece of market info (e.g. price) will tell you the condition of the market.........
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #8
  • Edited 10:02pm Dec 21, 2013 9:36pm | Edited 10:02pm
  •  Owl
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: FX Siphoner Of Symphonies | 435 Posts
Quoting mzvega
{quote} What I find I find pitiful, is that people would prefer to base their trade decisions based on one piece of market info "price" and project some math calculation upon it, than making their trade decisions based on "Real" market data & info that comes directly from the market itself, "Tic data"…………. Tic data shouldn't be used for "Technical analysis" rather "Quantitative Analysis"............I trade using tic data every day, there is nothing "fictitious" about trading with "Real" data that is generated & comes from the market itself........
Preach mzvega...........Preach...........You the truth!!!...some be forgetting about that AMT!!!! ...... ..... LOL....

I totally love your feeling and input about this matter because there are

lots of types who like to try to dismiss the "real" tools that's necessary to

successfully extract consistently from the market.... Keep letting us and

them know all the time I appreciate that.... Because it is true and that

is the proof right there because with the AMT process it's diving deeper and

behind the price action and into the market's actual activity and to generate

and see this analysis the indy needs at minimum standard broker data....

It just goes to show that we got to be "versatile" enough to try to "know"

everything about this FX market and have a arsenal of multiple strategies

in place ready set and waiting to be deployed for when the move comes

and happens.....
One Must Use A Noble Rapier To Pierce The Veil Of Mystery
  • #9
  • Edited 10:44pm Dec 21, 2013 10:21pm | Edited 10:44pm
  •  Owl
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: FX Siphoner Of Symphonies | 435 Posts
MzVega I also bet that you wouldn't be surprised to know that there are actually

certainly some traders who go 10 to 20 years trading not just FX but other financial

markets also but has never yet to lay claim to have studied any material whatsoever

concerning AMT....and some of them wonder why that consistency and instability fluctuates

abnormally in their performance and why it looks futile to escape from so they just accept

lack luster performances from time to time as being war scars attributed to the (FX) "game"

like having terrible losing streaks is just something to brag about and chalk up to as paying

homage to the "game" or something....smh... like NO it's not okay to lose 10 or 20 trades in

a row!!! And then think it's ok and that you're still stable enough to trade a live account for a living!!!....

no go back to studying the drawing board and throwing that sticky paint on the wall!!!....I don't know

why the majority don't flock to studying AMT and I know most heard of it some haven't but either

way it goes it should be recommended to all as a first stop shop lesson into entering trading currency

transactions right after babypips... and mind you I haven't traded other markets other than ETF's

but I heard it works better in other financial markets as well....But hey I tell you what MzVega I'm

with you all the way as I'm certain there are also many others and in time more and more will begin to

learn to see...the truth in the message just has to keep being seen and heard which means the ones

who know just have to keep letting it be known.....AMT...Auction Market Theory all the way....Yes we can

beat the fx market strategically in fact we can do it with multiple strategies....
One Must Use A Noble Rapier To Pierce The Veil Of Mystery
  • #10
  • Dec 21, 2013 11:42pm Dec 21, 2013 11:42pm
Quoting Owl
MzVega I also bet that you wouldn't be surprised to know that there are actually certainly some traders who go 10 to 20 years trading not just FX but other financial markets also but has never yet to lay claim to have studied any material whatsoever concerning AMT....and some of them wonder why the instability in their performance looks futile to escape from....I don't know why the majority don't flock to studying AMT and I know most heard of it some haven't but either way it goes it should be recommended to all as a first stop lesson into entering...
I think you "hit the nail on the head"

This is one of the oldest arguments here at FF. Same thread title, just a different turnover of traders with the same assumptions. They come & go for a reason. 95% of traders use some type of Ma’s, Oscillators, Elliott's, Murray's, type strategies. It’s not Rocket Science to reach the conclusion that that 95% of all traders fail for a reason. They can’t identify changes in market condition………. Ma’s, Oscillators, Elliott's, Murray's, type strategies, tell you nothing about the condition of the market itself. The more you know about the Auction Market Process, and the players that participate in them, you can identify the “who”, “why”, “where”, and interpret the intent and behavior of the different classes of traders………………….

Quoting Owl
I'm certain there are many others and in time more and more will begin to learn to see...the truth in the message......
What's amazing, and I still can't quite wrap my mind around the fact, is that they won't. It takes a lot of hard work and its a learning process......
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #11
  • Dec 22, 2013 12:40am Dec 22, 2013 12:40am
Quoting pooh123
Hello all, I have a question about "volume" of MT4. Does volume of MT4 show the tick volume of the whole forex market or only the tick volume at the retail broker where the MT4 is resided ? If it only shows the tick volume at the retail broker, then all volume analysis based on tick volume of MT4 is useless because the major price movers are big institutions. Big institutions trade at inter-bank platforms instead of retail brokers. And their trading behavior is significantly different from that of retail traders. Tick volume at retail brokers is...

I use volume in my trading... Here is part of an article that offers a point of view about volume.

Is Forex volume reliable?

There is a common misconception that volume cannot be used reliably in Forex trading for two reasons: firstly, there is no central exchange and therefore no official volume data. Secondly, when you’re looking at volume data on your Forex platform, you’re actually seeing “tick volume”, and not actual volume traded, such as the volume with a stock chart.

“Tick volume” measures the number of times the price ticks up and down. This is an excellent indicator of the strength of activity in any given bar. But also, the correlation between tick volume and actual volume traded is incredibly high. In 2011, Caspar Marney, head of Marney Capital and ex-UBS and HSBC trader, conducted an analysis of actual volume and tick volume in Forex. He used data from eSignal, EBS and Hotspot. For the pairs he studied, he calculated the correlation between tick volume and actual volume is over 90%.
So the question is: How do we go about tying in volume with price action?

The study of volume with price started in the early 1900s with a trader by the name Richard Wyckoff. His research, then known as Wyckoff Analysis, developed into what is known today as Volume Spread Analysis (or “VSA” for short).


Think in terms of Forex Volume as a measurement of activity as it relates to the spread of a candle or bar. Add to this where this activity takes place.. CONTEXT ... You begin, as I do, see PA in a different way.

TSD
  • #12
  • Dec 22, 2013 1:00am Dec 22, 2013 1:00am
Quoting TraderinSD
{quote}There is a common misconception that volume cannot be used reliably in Forex trading for two reasons: firstly, there is no central exchange and therefore no official volume data. Secondly, when you’re looking at volume data on your Forex platform, you’re actually seeing “tick volume”, and not actual volume traded, such as the volume with a stock chart. “Tick volume” measures the number of times the price ticks up and down.
That was exactly my point.

I was not saying that MT4 volume can't be used and that it isn't a reliable tool.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #13
  • Dec 22, 2013 1:25am Dec 22, 2013 1:25am
Quoting FerruFx
{quote} That was exactly my point. I was not saying that MT4 volume can't be used and that it isn't a reliable tool.

No worries FerruFX..Did not take it that way..Just was offering up some additional research.

For those interested in the use of Volume in FX.. As previously stated .. If one looks at the activity/volume within the context of what price has done previously to current PA .. High volume large spread, High volume small spread ... as it relates to Support / Resistance or Supply / Demand.. When big/large volume comes into the market it can only mean one thing, the SM's are active. They ( Central Banks, Hedge Funds, Etc ) are the only group that can create this amount of volume. Even though there is no centralized data like the CME/Commodity Volume ,one still gets a very good picture of what the SM's are doing.

Nothing is 100% in trading except two things. You will win some, you will lose some. The ratio of the two activities will determine one's profitability.

TSD
  • #14
  • Dec 22, 2013 1:38am Dec 22, 2013 1:38am
Quoting mzvega
{quote} What's "pitiful" imo is that most people who make these types of assumptions, first don’t have a clue and have not educated themselves to the type of markets they participate in. "Auction Markets" whether or not its Auctions that have "cleared volume" (e.g. CME) or an Auction market using tick vol. (e.g. Forex). It doesn't matter if your trading cattle, or cash an Auction is an Auction, will always be an Auction. Tic data is actual "real" Market data. If you're going to trade you would want to use real market data for your analysis. The...
The issue that tick volume is not actual market data. It shows that price moved up, or down. It does not show the auction process. One individual can hit the the ask with a penny lot and move tick "volume".

This has absolutely nothing to do with AMT.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #15
  • Dec 22, 2013 1:40am Dec 22, 2013 1:40am
Quoting TraderinSD
{quote} No worries FerruFX..Did not take it that way..Just was offering up some additional research. For those interested in the use of Volume in FX.. As previously stated .. If one looks at the activity/volume within the context of what price has done previously to current PA .. High volume large spread, High volume small spread ... as it relates to Support / Resistance or Supply / Demand.. When big/large volume comes into the market it can only mean one thing, the SM's are active. They ( Central Banks, Hedge Funds, Etc ) are the only group that...

I have read some similar studies in regards to volume and tick movement and confirm what you are saying. Also want to add that OBV can follow price very well from the tick volume on most TFs, personally I use it on a 1 min TF and find that entires and from small changes on OBV along with price can show some very nice trend continuations as well as trend reversals, Also I find the OBV works well to trade binary options because of the short term affect volumes can have on price, if your looking for short expires, volume and price action play a nice roll.
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #16
  • Dec 22, 2013 1:42am Dec 22, 2013 1:42am
Quoting Owl
The indy is not ficticious because it's something we all can download and put on a chart so indeed it is apart of reality.....now we can say most the concepts on how to use this indy that is created based off of incoming ticks into the platform is fictitious....but any indicator for any platform whether custom or standard is only a creation built and based off of what price does so how can the whole use of TA be questioned when all TA basically is, is just reading what price is producing and doing with a tool
If you can actually read price, then no tools are needed. Here is a hint. If price is above the open of the day, then it is up, if below it is down. If you need layers of assurance, then if price is above the weekly open then the trend is up, if not, the trend is down.

Indicators are for the confused and the lazy.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #17
  • Dec 22, 2013 1:50am Dec 22, 2013 1:50am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} The issue that tick volume is not actual market data. It shows that price moved up, or down. It does not show the auction process. One individual can hit the the ask with a penny lot and move tick "volume". This has absolutely nothing to do with AMT.

I have to admit that 1 penny moving tick volume is very unlikely to move the market, but at the same time if a 1 penny trade is able to move the market does this not show, for some psychological or technical analysis reason, that this moves, is actually moving the market ? this in turn would mean that pressure is mounting to move the market?

Because it is volume that moves the market, is it not ?

volume is the reason markets move, IMO it is the single handed most important factor in the market
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #18
  • Dec 22, 2013 1:50am Dec 22, 2013 1:50am
Quoting FerruFx
{quote} That was exactly my point. I was not saying that MT4 volume can't be used and that it isn't a reliable tool.
I didn't think that was what you implied, I just responded to the post that suggested that real market data was some how "fictitious"........
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #19
  • Dec 22, 2013 1:56am Dec 22, 2013 1:56am
Quoting mzvega
{quote} I think you "hit the nail on the head" This is one of the oldest arguments here at FF. Same thread title, just a different turnover of traders with the same assumptions. They come & go for a reason. 95% of traders use some type of Ma’s, Oscillators, Elliott's, Murray's, type strategies. It’s not Rocket Science to reach the conclusion that that 95% of all traders fail for a reason. They can’t identify changes in market condition………. Ma’s, Oscillators, Elliott's, Murray's, type strategies, tell you nothing about the condition of...
Tick volume varies from broker to broker. What is worse is that what is considered significant volume is dependent on the number of bars the trader decides to measure. It is a completely arbitrary method to give one the excuse to enter a trade, nothing more.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #20
  • Dec 22, 2013 1:58am Dec 22, 2013 1:58am
Quoting mzvega
{quote} I didn't think that was what you implied, I just responded to the post that suggested that real market data was some how "fictitious"........
Real market data is real market data, tick volume from one broker to another is as fictional as Santa Claus.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
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