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"Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade." Summary 37 replies

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Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #6,441
  • Dec 20, 2013 7:48pm Dec 20, 2013 7:48pm
Quoting horuxito
{quote} Guys, we don't need to point any fingers between us. We all are learning from Mr. Pip's great teachings. Monocor, when you presented your chart you asked "What do you guys think?", and I simply said, you have your ABCD but the A point didn't start from the very low. Is that bad advice? I think is not, I simply observed something I think people with more than 3 weeks here are able to recognize. I have 1 year in this thread and I personally asked Mr. Pip for the "difference between main and dominan swings" video, and he was very nice to make...
that is good video.watch minute 13 ABCD in trend
Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil
  • #6,442
  • Dec 20, 2013 7:52pm Dec 20, 2013 7:52pm
A relatively uneventful day.

1. Figuring out if the bears have had enough

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2. Deciding the bulls were back in the game, looking for a long opportunity... with a missed opportunity

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3. Catching the second opportunity...

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4. Exited too early? Hindsight says yes

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  • #6,443
  • Dec 20, 2013 7:56pm Dec 20, 2013 7:56pm
Guys... this thread would swiftly become boring if nobody posted their thoughts and opinions (whether right or wrong).

We shouldn't berate anybody for their assessments and calls - this is a learning process not a signal service!

Merry Christmas everybody
  • #6,444
  • Dec 20, 2013 7:57pm Dec 20, 2013 7:57pm
Quoting monocor
{quote} You don't remember you own words ? That is sad
It's funny. I was reading precisely that. You have been very aggressive with me and that is what is really sad. All the 3 points I mentioned in that post are the result of a deep study of this thread, and also the additional comment about start using the M5 chart since the M1 will reduce the view for a proper analysis.

Throught the history of this thread, we all have been commenting each other's observations, and everyone is humble to ask and listen to other trader's opinion. If you keep reading that page you will notice that I didn't act like a supreme guru who knows everything. I told you I was learning and they were just my observations. What made you think I was providing advice at all? I was only giving my observations not advice which I consider a very delicate word.
Best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, second best is now
  • #6,445
  • Edited 8:32pm Dec 20, 2013 8:04pm | Edited 8:32pm
Quoting monocor
{quote} I post my charts after the trades was done, and all was in profit. The comments was after that. couple pages back and you will see my posts. I am 6 years in this business, and i wouldnt stay in business if i would listen somebody where to open orders. I do take dicisions on my own. I posted charts to see if everything is right, as i started to learn harmonics 3 weeks ago. But it is pretty simple, it has a lot of common with dinapoly. I demo traded harmonics this week, it is really easy M15 charts 120 pips and M1 160 pips. my post was 6311...
Man, I wish you all the luck, and I am happy for you then, all I asked, do not point fingers at your fellow traders, neither to UR beloved ones. Your finger must be pointed at YOU and only YOU!
Please keep your good habit of posting UR charts for upcoming opportunities for others to analyze, that is great!! Tnx!
Concerning my language I feel proud, I just wanted to get you off your high horse for your own sake, weather you listen or not, it is really up to YOU again ...
Just put your finger away! Sit in your pants tight, and trade when you decide so... do not blame anybody for anything else (than YOURSELF only)...
Good luck for the next many years!
..and what are your next recommended trades for the next weeks? I guess now we look into Jan, since the rest of the year might be just slow?...
So please look at what is coming instead of was was in the past! Please post then the upcoming views of yours for consideration and comments from others! OK?
  • #6,446
  • Dec 20, 2013 9:45pm Dec 20, 2013 9:45pm
Good day Mr. Pip

I have been learning from your harmonic trading strategy for quite some time now.

What was most helpful to me was the copy of your rules of engagement for the ABCD pattern as they were specific rules to follow, although i have a copy of the advance pattern reference guide i could not seem to find the specific ROE for the other patterns.. would it be possible to kindly point me to the right direction

thank you very much for this thread and all your insights

Happy Holidays
  • #6,447
  • Dec 20, 2013 11:14pm Dec 20, 2013 11:14pm
Hello Mr. Pip.
I understood/learning following things :

To enter trades, 1st we have to look for AB=CD completion / Gartly pattern / Fib levels of main swing.
Fib levels has the high probable levels very price action can retrace.
At those levels we have to see price action and enter the trade.

Now the problem I am facing is :

When price moved from point Q to point R, price action retraced little bit at point X and it is high probable level of 88%.
So, here if i buy at point Q I would closed my trade at point X due to it retraced which is unfair because price moved further also even it was retraced.

So, How to identify that the retracing of price at point X is false ?

Next,
R is 127% of Swing PQ. So, due to high probability & retracing the price action, I would sell it at point R. Price moved from R to S that is ok. Now, price retraced at point S which is 61% of swing QR and also could break the level so I would closed my sell trade and enter a buy trade.

Now, the problem is, while price moving from S to T, price retraced at point Y 50% of RS so i would closed my trade at 50% which is unfair because price moved further also even it was retraced.

So, the same question, How to identify that the retracing of price at point Y is false ?

Due to retracing of price at point X and Y, I would close my buy and enter sell which would be in loss.

So, how to indentify that retracing of price is fake and real ?

Please help.
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-milkeyway
  • #6,448
  • Dec 21, 2013 6:28am Dec 21, 2013 6:28am
Quoting Levi Alpha
Good day Mr. Pip I have been learning from your harmonic trading strategy for quite some time now. What was most helpful to me was the copy of your rules of engagement for the ABCD pattern as they were specific rules to follow, although i have a copy of the advance pattern reference guide i could not seem to find the specific ROE for the other patterns.. would it be possible to kindly point me to the right direction thank you very much for this thread and all your insights Happy Holidays
I was away from the thread for a while in the middle of the year, but from what I understand the only detailed ROE's that were published were for Gartley and ABCD.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=6338994#post6338994 Mr. Pip's post with attachment about ABCD ROE
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=6376835#post6376835 Mr. Pip's post with attachment about Gartley ROE
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=6338985#post6338985 Mr. Pip's post with attachment for Advanced Patterns (diagrams only)

Hope that helps
  • #6,449
  • Dec 21, 2013 6:44am Dec 21, 2013 6:44am
Quoting itinerant
{quote} I was away from the thread for a while in the middle of the year, but from what I understand the only detailed ROE's that were published were for Gartley and ABCD. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=6338994#post6338994 Mr. Pip's post with attachment about ABCD ROE http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=6376835#post6376835 Mr. Pip's post with attachment about Gartley ROE http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=6338985#post6338985 Mr. Pip's post with attachment for Advanced Patterns (diagrams...

Thank you sir this has been very helpful
  • #6,450
  • Dec 21, 2013 7:12am Dec 21, 2013 7:12am
Quoting kumaramy
Hello Mr. Pip. I understood/learning following things : To enter trades, 1st we have to look for AB=CD completion / Gartly pattern / Fib levels of main swing. Fib levels has the high probable levels very price action can retrace. At those levels we have to see price action and enter the trade. Now the problem I am facing is : When price moved from point Q to point R, price action retraced little bit at point X and it is high probable level of 88%. So, here if i buy at point Q I would closed my trade at point X due to it retraced which is unfair...
Hi Kumaramy,

I may well be wrong on this, but I don't believe Mr. Pip advocate trading all fib levels, even if they do signify a particularly deep retracement. In fact, he has previously spoken that we should trade his specific fib levels (for example, those making up his ABCD pattern with entries at C or D) because they have a higher probability of success than others.

For example, "R is 127% of Swing PQ" hasn't really featured as a standard entry point in this thread, and neither has 88%.
Fib ratios make up the structure of patterns, but it seems to me you're trying to use certain fib levels as entry points simply because they're deep fib levels, rather than using them as the building blocks of standard patterns. I'm sure you can do that if you're good enough, but ultimately the fib levels just show likely points where price may reverse if order flow, PA and confluence suggest so.

In fact, at a cursory glance the only standard entry on your chart would be an Aggressive C at point S (which would have been successful).

Just my 2 cents

(And my apologies if I've not fully understood your post)

  • #6,451
  • Dec 21, 2013 10:55am Dec 21, 2013 10:55am
Quoting itinerant
A relatively uneventful day. 1. Figuring out if the bears have had enough {image} 2. Deciding the bulls were back in the game, looking for a long opportunity... with a missed opportunity {image} 3. Catching the second opportunity... {image} 4. Exited too early? Hindsight says yes {image}
Just read this post, very details and step by step trading , thanks for showing this trade and the analysis on projections when momentum slowed by shallow projections, and when not to take the 61.8 entry and waited for better entry whe pa closed in the 61.8 and the 78.6 zone with almost ABCD completion zone, presto!
I Have Learned to Take Some Losses to Make Profits
  • #6,452
  • Dec 21, 2013 11:16am Dec 21, 2013 11:16am
Quoting itinerant
{quote} Hi Kumaramy, I may well be wrong on this, but I don't believe Mr. Pip advocate trading all fib levels, even if they do signify a particularly deep retracement. In fact, he has previously spoken that we should trade his specific fib levels (for example, those making up his ABCD pattern with entries at C or D) because they have a higher probability of success than others. For example, "R is 127% of Swing PQ" hasn't really featured as a standard entry point in this thread, and neither has 88%. Fib ratios make up the structure of patterns, but...
If you see his trade session video, you would see his 1st or 2nd trade was sell @ 38% when price tested the previous support as a resistance. So, what if price just show fake retracing that is my query. Because same as Mr. pip, if I sell at the retracement by finding confluence, price shows fake retracement to me and goes in wrong direction.
-milkeyway
  • #6,453
  • Dec 21, 2013 1:29pm Dec 21, 2013 1:29pm
Quoting TheScorpS
{quote} Just read this post, very details and step by step trading , thanks for showing this trade and the analysis on projections when momentum slowed by shallow projections, and when not to take the 61.8 entry and waited for better entry whe pa closed in the 61.8 and the 78.6 zone with almost ABCD completion zone, presto!
You're welcome! They are just the random musing of one man, but I guess presenting them on here makes me think and justify my trading more
  • #6,454
  • Dec 21, 2013 1:49pm Dec 21, 2013 1:49pm
Quoting kumaramy
{quote} If you see his trade session video, you would see his 1st or 2nd trade was sell @ 38% when price tested the previous support as a resistance. So, what if price just show fake retracing that is my query. Because same as Mr. pip, if I sell at the retracement by finding confluence, price shows fake retracement to me and goes in wrong direction.
Again, only my simple thoughts: I think it goes without saying that we can't trade every swing with 100% accuracy. I for one must learn to walk before I run... and walking means keeping to the essential elements of this trading style.

The hypothetical trades you mention don't conform to any explicit rules laid down here. Let's not examine the reasons for entry, but let's say you took your long at Q - what would have been your target and why? Or your short at R - what would be the target? Or your buy at S - what targets? Did the trades meet the targets? If you look at Mr. Pip's ROE on Gartley and ABCD he has very clearly defined target points (which is an essential element to any objective, repeatable, successful trading style).

Or are you hoping to close every trade just before the trend reverses against you? If so, that may be an unrealistic goal at our stage. Of course, we can manage a trade once it is comfortably moving in our favour by trailing SL to structure and other significant points of confluence.

I found that trading video immensely useful, but I take it for what it is: a professional making his living. Can I emulate that now? No, I need to master the basics first.
  • #6,455
  • Edited 8:05pm Dec 21, 2013 6:12pm | Edited 8:05pm
I saw this one on GBPJPY, didnt trade it - dont like selling this pair - but boy wasnt it beautiful to watch. BAT + ABCD right at 171 what more you could want If anyone took it, please lemme know

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  • #6,456
  • Dec 22, 2013 10:23am Dec 22, 2013 10:23am
Hello Traders,

I am back from some much needed R & R I have caught up on the thread and would like to thank all of the members for posting and helping each other out. It is always nice to see this type of teamwork.

Instead of answering every post, I think it is best to just start fresh on Monday as to not add a bunch of pages and hours of reading.

I do want to say a couple of general comments to cover my take away from the posts you all wrote.

Hao, I wish you well with your trading and your thread. Your introduction made me laugh. I hope you did the testing necessary to validate the efficiency of your trading system. I would not call any system I started trading for three weeks a super anything. I guess we know where in the statistics you fall under. I also do not believe my system needs to be optimized in the least. I'm glad you have found a home. You do not have my permission to misuse my videos. You do not have a grasp of this despite what you believe and are using my videos to provide education on a subject you do not fully understand.

I do not endorse your thread and would caution anyone that would be interested in following your thread. That's all I have to say about that. I visited and it made me laugh more than made. I believe the members of this thread are empowered and can see beyond the shadows.

I would also like to say that in more recent posts there has been some back and forth on advice given. Let me say that this was done with the best of intentions. We will not point fingers here and call each other out. We are all brothers and sisters here and we need to treat each other with respect especially when someone is trying to help. Trades will lose and expectations will fail that is part of the business. Be accountable for your actions. No one hear forces any one to pull the trigger.

I am also noticing a lot of emotion in your trading. This needs to be controlled if you want to become professionals. The decisions we make will be better ones if we remove emotion from the equation. This is a business transaction pure and simple. How many of you business folks out there make business decisions based on emotions? Was the outcome good? Develop a set of rule mine or yours but have this in place it removes emotion from the equation.

I also see quite a few of you misusing and focusing on patterns. Please do not attempt to do this. Before you can trade these, you need a solid foundation, this is what I'm trying to give you but the focus is still in the wrong place for some of you.

In this week to come let me know if there is something you feel pressing the I cover. I would like to cover timing your entry. This is a very important topic and is what separates the top 5% from the rest.

PS. Lets focus on order flow, bar by bar and harmonics. The animals can wait and I will tell you a little secret if you grasp this concept you will probably never look for one again. I look forward to hearing from you remember that if you want something covered or explained again before we move forward with timing your entry let me know.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #6,457
  • Dec 22, 2013 10:34am Dec 22, 2013 10:34am
Quoting Mr. Pip
Hello Traders, I am back from some much needed R & R I have caught up on the thread and would like to thank all of the members for posting and helping each other out. It is always nice to see this type of teamwork. Instead of answering every post, I think it is best to just start fresh on Monday as to not add a bunch of pages and hours of reading. I do want to say a couple of general comments to cover my take away from the posts you all wrote. Hao, I wish you well with your trading and your thread. Your introduction made me laugh. I hope you did...
Great to have you back hope you are refreshed! I would love to see some more examples regarding timing the entry. I still find myself getting jumpy around entry time, though it is getting less and less. Sometimes I only get one opportunity due to my data feed so I have to be sharp. Cheers.
Finally out of the shadows.
  • #6,458
  • Dec 22, 2013 11:33am Dec 22, 2013 11:33am
Quoting Mr. Pip
Hello Traders, I am back from some much needed R & R I have caught up on the thread and would like to thank all of the members for posting and helping each other out. It is always nice to see this type of teamwork. Instead of answering every post, I think it is best to just start fresh on Monday as to not add a bunch of pages and hours of reading. I do want to say a couple of general comments to cover my take away from the posts you all wrote. Hao, I wish you well with your trading and your thread. Your introduction made me laugh. I hope you did...
Hello Sir,
Glad to see you again!
Since you are posting trade example and other members too, I got clears many concepts about Harmonic Trading. This is my progress report until today. Please make sure that I am going in right direction.

1] To enter trades, 1st we have to look for AB=CD completion/ Gartly/other patterns/fib levels of main swing.
2] Fib levels are the level which are high probable retracement.
3] At fib levels we have to observe price action and enter the trade (with confluence).
4] When there is decrease in angle of swing, there is decrease of momentum. Ref : Post here (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=7160075#post7160075)
5] When there is increase of depth in downside market, there is sign of bullish price action in future.
6] When there is increase in projection, there is increase of bearish market.
7] AB is not always equal to CD. But there are some fib levels which are high probable for retrace.
8] Support, resistance, trend line confluence.
9] Valid Gartly, Bat, Butterfly fib level rules.

And this is my update about the concepts which still confused me:

1] Analyzing of Momentum and Analyzing of Order flow are same things ? If both are different things then what is order flow?
2] When there is development of dominate swing, the dominate swing shows some retracement price actions signals like pinbar, doji (battle won by bear or bull). But When I trade at that point, after some time I understand that it was not the actual retracement and market goes against me (or I go against market). So, there is something that I am missing to do but unable to trace what is it ?

Request :
Can you make more videos and focus on order flow for a while ?
or
When you post confluence of the trade example, can you please post how did you identify order flow?

Thanking you.

Regards
-milkeyway
  • #6,459
  • Dec 22, 2013 11:36am Dec 22, 2013 11:36am
It's great to see you back Mr. Pip! You deserved that week away from the charts with your family.

Your post summarizes pretty much everything that we have been doing here this week and I agree we must start from scratch from monday on.

You mentioned something about "your system", but if I am allowed, I would even say yours is not a system, but a magnificent strategy, a professional methodology of analyzing the market. You breathe with the market when you focus on order flow, price action and momentum, which is something that systems cannot do.

I followed the line of FineForex and started a journal as well HERE (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=463034). I want to record my progress. My focus will be in harmonics without animals, at less they are very evident and add strength. Will also use Supply/Demand, Daily Range and S/R pivots.

Quoting Mr. Pip
I would also like to say that in more recent posts there has been some back and forth on advice given. Let me say that this was done with the best of intentions. We will not point fingers here and call each other out. We are all brothers and sisters here and we need to treat each other with respect especially when someone is trying to help. Trades will lose and expectations will fail that is part of the business. Be accountable for your actions. No one hear forces any one to pull the trigger.
Thanks for these words. We all are learning here and can help each other out in the best of spirits without pointing fingers, so thanks again for remarking this out.

Quoting Mr. Pip
I also see quite a few of you misusing and focusing on patterns. Please do not attempt to do this. Before you can trade these, you need a solid foundation, this is what I'm trying to give you but the focus is still in the wrong place for some of you. In this week to come let me know if there is something you feel pressing the I cover. I would like to cover timing your entry. This is a very important topic and is what separates the top 5% from the rest. PS. Lets focus on order flow, bar by bar and harmonics. The animals can wait and I will tell you...
TIMING! It's wondeful you mentioned this. I think we all would love more about it since we are "level" traders and we want to buy or sell at wholesale price. This will be the cherry over the cake.
Best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, second best is now
  • #6,460
  • Dec 22, 2013 11:37am Dec 22, 2013 11:37am
Quoting horuxito
It's great to see you back Mr. Pip! You deserved that week away from the charts with your family. Your post summarizes pretty much everything that we have been doing here this week and I agree we must start from scratch from monday on. You mentioned something about "your system", but if I am allowed, I would even say yours is not a system, but a magnificent strategy, a professional methodology of analyzing the market. You breathe with the market when you focus on order flow, price action and momentum, which is something that systems cannot do. I...
Hi Huroxito !
-milkeyway
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