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  • #321
  • Dec 8, 2013 5:30pm Dec 8, 2013 5:30pm
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote}If of course you define experience as qualities - as opposed to time spent on related activities.
I'm saying there are very good traders wasting their trading years away making their 5% a year with excellent skills and knowledge of the markets due to mental self-imposed limitations, not being aware that even equity curves have a sort of psychological support/resistance areas that can be breached only by working on it.
  • #322
  • Edited 6:26pm Dec 8, 2013 6:00pm | Edited 6:26pm
Quoting tradista
{quote} I'm saying there are very good traders wasting their trading years away making their 5% a year with excellent skills and knowledge of the markets due to mental self-imposed limitations, not being aware that even equity curves have a sort of psychological support/resistance areas that can be breached only by working on it.
Well, I consider getting rid of those 'mental self-imposed limitations' to be a part of becoming a good trader. You can believe me on this one - we all have them - some have more, some less. If one won't get over them [mostly] he WON'T become successful no matter what thus he MUST do that. It's simply a component!

I'll take a simple example: a trader is making money on demo [or a small account] consistently but can't do that on real-money account only because he has some psychological issues [for simplicity let's say all other conditions are equal].
I would NEVER call such a trader good.
It would be just the same to call a good trader the one who's breaking system rules: he can follow them and make money though he doesn't and he fails. There's enough of profitable methods around - it's all about following one and THAT is psychology. You can get used to it but I'd rather know why I do stuff and not just rely on the fact that something doesn't bother me cause it became my habit. Though, for those, not so lucky, who have 'more' it's unlikely to breed a habit at all...

Furthermore, I incorporate all money-related stuff in the definition of the trading plan. So, simply put, the trader isn't profitable cause he can't stand high-lot trading - that means he can't implement his own plan. Now,

THAT - is BAD

Such a trader isn't at all good. As we all theoretically can use some method dispassionately but as it's clear many of us don't.

To conclude: I think it's more correctly to say that a trader who has psychological issues, in order to become good, has to overcome them.
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #323
  • Dec 8, 2013 6:28pm Dec 8, 2013 6:28pm
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} Well, I consider getting rid of those 'mental self-imposed limitations' to be a part of becoming a good trader. You can believe me on this one - we all have them - some have more, some less. If one won't get over them [mostly] he WON'T become a successful no matter what thus he MUST do that. It's simply a component! I'll take a simple example: a trader is making money on demo [or a small account] consistently but can't do that on real-money account only because he has some psychological issues [for simplicity let's say all other conditions...

Greed, Fear and Confidence are the main issues, trading itself is quite simple, the market can only go 1 or 3 ways really ( up, down, sideways ) so it really can't be that hard can it ??

It takes years to get over the psychological issues, why most traders take years to get there ( not all, some just do it ofcourse )

And are there really loads of methods out there which work on FF ?? I haven't checked in a few years to be fair, but most are just NO or they sound like scammers trying to sell something to me.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #324
  • Dec 8, 2013 6:43pm Dec 8, 2013 6:43pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Greed, Fear and Confidence are the main issues, trading itself is quite simple, the market can only go 1 or 3 ways really ( up, down, sideways ) so it really can't be that hard can it ?? It takes years to get over the psychological issues, why most traders take years to get there ( not all, some just do it ofcourse ) .
A little more complex I would say:
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} It's about fine-tuning your brain so that it's working for you [not sitting aside on its lazy ass or sabotaging you when you don't even know].
But you got my point anyway.
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} And are there really loads of methods out there which work on FF ?? I haven't checked in a few years to be fair, but most are just NO or they sound like scammers trying to sell something to me.
Mmm, can't say 'loads' - I don't actually give a damn to loads and don't need so much [who does?!]. But surely there're some systems that work. If it's not voodoo magic it'll probably work. I've started to think that it doesn't matter so much what the system is [still matters but not so much - that 'no holy grail' thing] - what matters more is how you use it [that's only in case of not-automated systems though automated shouldn't be 'voodoo' either and it 'human factor' most likely causes EAs to earn much less than people]. As you can be 'in sync' [with the market, in this case] as well as not. If the former you'll get profits much more likely than the latter BUT whether you're in sync or not isn't defined by system though working through it![btw varies to huge extent also]
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #325
  • Dec 8, 2013 7:42pm Dec 8, 2013 7:42pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} Chicks, Near as I can figure...in the trio, you are the only one who should be responding. Whether you are now, is irrelevant. You've made it to the show. You have a message worth listening to. This is a job. It's not about driving a Maserati, living in paradise or having a playboy bunny under each arm...it is a job, like any other job. Learning respect for this and having a realistic target has always been your greatest message. This is the secret to market.
good post.
Wherever you go, there you are.
  • #326
  • Dec 8, 2013 9:57pm Dec 8, 2013 9:57pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Greed, Fear and Confidence are the main issues, trading itself is quite simple, the market can only go 1 or 3 ways really ( up, down, sideways ) so it really can't be that hard can it ??
I only trade trending markets, and I am very much aware when it is not trending. But the market it is not very easy to define when it is or it is not. The last candle of a trend can be the first candle of congestion and viceversa.

What we can do is to create our own rules to when we need to define a market case that is not suitable for how we best can take profit out of the market.

Will those guides make us get the best out of the market all the time? I do not think so (the market it is not to be caged), but their are our guides and they are the only way that will can keep us into the game...
Wherever you go, there you are.
  • #327
  • Dec 9, 2013 12:31pm Dec 9, 2013 12:31pm
Quoting SeanyTsunami
All you really need is 1 or 2 trades a month to be more profitable then 95% of people who try this business. Wait for stand out setups and react to those. I would highly doubt there are many millionaire traders who focus on trading 5 min charts and putting there capital at risk many times per week. 3% a month is my goal.
I, though, would highly doubt that you have a clue of what you're talking about...
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #328
  • Dec 9, 2013 1:49pm Dec 9, 2013 1:49pm
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} I, though, would highly doubt that you have a clue of what you're talking about...
So, in your opinion:

- everyone who says that he is trading for a living and is willing to share his ideas and says that this is a very hard job and you should be glad if you are overall profitable by the end of the year even by a small % account grow - has no ideea what he is talking about
- everyone who claims that he can make 60-100% acc growt per month with no proof whatsoever - is a legitimate trader and your personal hero

all of that coming from a "full time trader" with 7-8 month experience - hald of that time on demo...

For the sake of this thread, i think it is better to just listen/read what those guys have to say and try to learn something, and keep opinions to ourselves.
  • #329
  • Dec 9, 2013 2:22pm Dec 9, 2013 2:22pm
Interesting that you say that. In the book Market Wizards or New Market Wizards (I forgot which one I read it in) a few of the top traders interviewed only make one or two trades a year. They are large positions that they may hold for weeks or months but they are the most highly probable trade setups in their arsenals. One of those traders is quoted as saying something to the effect of I just wait for the money to appear so easily that all I have to do is walk over and pick it up.

Quoting SeanyTsunami
All you really need is 1 or 2 trades a month to be more profitable then 95% of people who try this business. Wait for stand out setups and react to those. I would highly doubt there are many millionaire traders who focus on trading 5 min charts and putting there capital at risk many times per week. 3% a month is my goal. Also the power of this business is compounding, so trading for a living can be very stressful if you have bills to pay and it has been a slow couple of months. Trading is there for myself as an investment vehicle, and the truth...
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
  • #330
  • Dec 9, 2013 2:32pm Dec 9, 2013 2:32pm
Quoting SeanyTsunami
I didn't intend to sound like a "know it all." I was just stating what I think is realistic expectations from trading and that it can be lucrative if you have a solid capital base. Those kind of comments make me no longer want to partake in the forums on here. I believe my comments hold merit.
3% a month is good money, 36% a year……if you can borrow $1,000000, paying let say them 6%, you make $300,0000….Not bad…..
Your post made sense to me….

keep good records…...
Wherever you go, there you are.
  • #331
  • Dec 9, 2013 2:37pm Dec 9, 2013 2:37pm
Quoting SeanyTsunami
{quote} I believe my comments hold merit. I wasn't claiming to be an "all knowing" trader. These are just logical statements and material I have learned from my mentor. I am on here to learn and share information.
Seany,
my comment was not directed to you, but to the one that said you dont have a clue what you are talking...

so, keep posting if you feel like it, dont pay attention to all "masters" here
  • #332
  • Dec 9, 2013 2:56pm Dec 9, 2013 2:56pm
Your post was a good one and I often go back underground in forums as a non-member because the same thing happens to me... Sometimes it's like why bother. However, if your post helped one person it was successful so stick around cause I guarentee you someone will cut down on their trading and prosper because of your words.

Use the ignore feature, it's golden.....


Quoting SeanyTsunami
I didn't intend to sound like a "know it all." I was just stating what I think is realistic expectations from trading and that it can be lucrative if you have a solid capital base. Those kind of comments make me no longer want to partake in the forums on here. I believe my comments hold merit.
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
  • #333
  • Edited 3:48pm Dec 9, 2013 3:09pm | Edited 3:48pm
Quoting bradu
{quote} So, in your opinion: - everyone who says that he is trading for a living and is willing to share his ideas and says that this is a very hard job and you should be glad if you are overall profitable by the end of the year even by a small % account grow - has no ideea what he is talking about - everyone who claims that he can make 60-100% acc growt per month with no proof whatsoever - is a legitimate trader and your personal hero all of that coming from a "full time trader" with 7-8 month experience - hald of that time on demo... For the sake...
Bradu, you, mister, is trading for fun. You are not a trader at all.
I doubt you have anything new of any value to share here - as seen from your comments which just repeat unjustified crap [not even yours].
Have you said something useful here? - nothing, NOT A THING in all your posts is ANY helpful.
Furthermore, you probably can't read so I doubt you'll understand but at least for others:
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote}I've been using this system for about 8 months - half of them demo and testing.
Now, you want 'dissecting' thing - ok.

Quoting SeanyTsunami
All you really need is 1 or 2 trades a month to be more profitable then 95% of people who try this business.
1) That depends on the strategy.
2) Where did you get this figure - any proof, 'study'?
Quoting SeanyTsunami
Wait for stand out setups and react to those.
Successful trader takes only set-ups that suits his criteria - there're no stand-outs. Consistency isn't made by home runs.
Quoting SeanyTsunami
I would highly doubt there are many millionaire traders who focus on trading 5 min charts and putting there capital at risk many times per week.
1) Do you know at least one millionaire to say so?
2) Do you know anything about LTF-trading except it'll require more screen-time?
Quoting SeanyTsunami
so trading for a living can be very stressful if you have bills to pay and it has been a slow couple of months.
Only if you're not enough profitable or you didn't study psychology.
Quoting SeanyTsunami
Trading is there for myself as an investment vehicle, and the truth is if you are above breakeven for the year, you are doing better than most who try this. Trade Less, trade the obvious, have patience.
1) Investment is not trading
2) If you're BE for year go put money in the bank and trade demo Edit: if that 'above' is less than bank deposit rate.
3) You have no evidence of that even if it's true.
4) Why should I trade less if I'm profitable right now?
Edit: 5) You should trade your plan no matter whether it's obvious or not.
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #334
  • Dec 9, 2013 3:53pm Dec 9, 2013 3:53pm
Quoting SeanyTsunami
All you really need is 1 or 2 trades a month to be more profitable then 95% of people who try this business. Wait for stand out setups and react to those. I would highly doubt there are many millionaire traders who focus on trading 5 min charts and putting there capital at risk many times per week. 3% a month is my goal. Also the power of this business is compounding, so trading for a living can be very stressful if you have bills to pay and it has been a slow couple of months. Trading is there for myself as an investment vehicle, and the truth...

3% might be your goal and your happy with that, 3% is enough to justify your time spent trading I presume but..........


Just cause that is the best you can do, doesn't mean it's the best anyone can do, there are a LOT of people in this world you realise.

Doing better than most is just break even, 95-99% are losing after all, but still leave 1-5% which are doing well.

As 36% would get me $180 currently, not a lot of point me going for such a goal, I'm going to continue to work on the system till I get 36% per month at the very very least, or die trying!!

Many trades, good setups, higher risk for me thanks!! then back off the risk as the account grows!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #335
  • Dec 9, 2013 3:57pm Dec 9, 2013 3:57pm
Quoting JoeNY
Your post was a good one and I often go back underground in forums as a non-member because the same thing happens to me... Sometimes it's like why bother. However, if your post helped one person it was successful so stick around cause I guarentee you someone will cut down on their trading and prosper because of your words. Use the ignore feature, it's golden..... {quote}

Just because you agree with him, doesn't make his point right, his point is right for the right person and wrong for the wrong person, therefore both points need to be listened to.

This is rapidly turning into a if you haven't got a 100K, then why even bother to trade, which is just ludicrous.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #336
  • Dec 9, 2013 4:11pm Dec 9, 2013 4:11pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} This is rapidly turning into a if you haven't got a 100K, then why even bother to trade, which is just ludicrous.
Turveyd - I certainly agree with you on this. 100% accurate - it's absolute rubbish. I've had a few accounts of various sizes over the past year and I finally realised that the core amount size doesn't matter. In fact, it's far better to prove to yourself that you can manage the OTHER size of trading - small account, smaller lot sizes and small/reasonable growth from profits.


Now, it can be a bit hard watching small profits accumulate in your account, but once you know you're building the account (and not reducing it), then you're on your way. Give it time to grow and you'll be able to see specifically what you can make per week and per month. The pips are irrelevant. Completely! It's only ensuring you have a definitive +% growth of your capital funds that matters.

RoI - that's the key. Money management is crucial and therefore risk management of trade plan/sizes is also very important.

If you can plan for a reasonable % expectation (max. AND min.) and keep your emotions in check, then you're on your way to letting trading work for you. And when you're confident that you've gained enough experience with gaining a reasonable return, you can go ahead and decide to increase your funding. Just make sure you don't go and change the steady gains (and the confidence of what you worked so hard to achieve), by 'risking a bit more to make it grow a bit quicker'.
  • #337
  • Dec 9, 2013 4:19pm Dec 9, 2013 4:19pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Just because you agree with him, doesn't make his point right, his point is right for the right person and wrong for the wrong person, therefore both points need to be listened to. This is rapidly turning into a if you haven't got a 100K, then why even bother to trade, which is just ludicrous.
Oh yeah, Turv!
You got my point here too!!!
They're all trying to apply 'what they think is right' for everybody [which is btw more often than not just unwarranted claims based on belief that that they're smart as hell and can say whatever they think and always guess right]
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #338
  • Dec 9, 2013 4:21pm Dec 9, 2013 4:21pm
I think his post was useful to a newbie who might be over trading so for that I thought it was valid and agree. I read about something similar as well as stated in my post #334. Now on to myself.... I personally have no use for that strategy. My analysis allows me to trade daily profitably. I'm glad my strategy is on a daily basis because if I had to stare at charts the amount of time I do for only 2 trades a month, I would hang myself out of boredom. I also love to trade so I'm thankful for daily trades. I didn't get that from his post about needing 100k to trade so I'm unsure what you mean by that. Most people sift through the forum and take what they need. A bit of info from here, a bit of info from there. They piece what they feel is valid from all the data and take what they need. If 100 post say you can trade with as little as 100 bucks and 10 post say you need 100k, I think the average Joe will be able to make a good decision about what everyone's doing.



Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Just because you agree with him, doesn't make his point right, his point is right for the right person and wrong for the wrong person, therefore both points need to be listened to. This is rapidly turning into a if you haven't got a 100K, then why even bother to trade, which is just ludicrous.
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
  • #339
  • Edited 4:39pm Dec 9, 2013 4:27pm | Edited 4:39pm
Quoting JoeNY
I think his post was useful to a newbie who might be over trading so for that I thought it was valid and agree. I read about something similar as well as stated in my post #334. Now on to myself.... I personally have no use for that strategy. My analysis allows me to trade daily profitably. I'm glad my strategy is on a daily basis because if I had to stare at charts the amount of time I do for only 2 trades a month, I would hang myself out of boredom. I also love to trade so I'm thankful for daily trades. I didn't get that from his post about needing...
This post can't be useful for anybody as:
1) That was already said many times.
2) Information mostly isn't valid anyway.

EDIT:
JoeNY
Quoting JoeNY
Use the ignore feature, it's golden..... {quote}
and keep living in your delusion saying crap you can't prove though getting evidence from the opposite side.
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #340
  • Dec 9, 2013 4:38pm Dec 9, 2013 4:38pm
Yes but wasn't the title of the thread "I trade my own account for a living. Tell your story" The person was telling their story and expressed how they felt which is unique to them. It really doesn't have to be debatable. Anyone reading about someones story can just take it with a grain of salt. An opinion was expressed and we all know what opinions are like...
it's not really a big deal.... When someone starts a sentence with I doubt, etc etc.. I usually don't give much thought to what comes after "I doubt whether..... But that's just me....

Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} This post can't be useful for anybody as: 1) That was already said many times. 2) Information mostly isn't valid anyway.
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
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