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  • #201
  • Dec 4, 2013 3:55am Dec 4, 2013 3:55am
Quoting tradista
{quote} Have you done it already on a demo account? If not, then stop dreaming and make it happen in DEMO account first. You must treat this like a business, plan things ahead, base your trading decisions on a solid foundation that YOU KNOW and have experienced not on some basic assumptions that you calculated out of your reasoning or some quick spreadsheet. Probably not what you want to hear but still I'd wish someone would have found a way of engraving me this deep in mind so that I could focus on the "reality" of trading earlier in my journey....

I was demo profitable from the start, doesn't activate my fear and greed modes, 95% of my trades have been live.

Probability is main client will lose there contract tomorrow so no time for demo.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #202
  • Dec 4, 2013 3:58am Dec 4, 2013 3:58am
Quoting siboy
Hey Turveyd.......how are you doing mate?..........it's been a long time Very interesting thread this well done tradista and if I could just add my favourite quote from Thomas Edison...."Many of lifes failures are people who did not realise how close they were to success when they gave up"
Trading wise getting there i think, Life well thats kida sucking but can't ha e it all.

How's you ?
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #203
  • Dec 4, 2013 10:04am Dec 4, 2013 10:04am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} I was demo profitable from the start, doesn't activate my fear and greed modes, 95% of my trades have been live. Probability is main client will lose there contract tomorrow so no time for demo.
The price of rushing things up is usually a blown account... PATIENCE is the king skill in this business, either while planning your strategy for months or executing your plan with discipline.
Hopefully your 5 hundred are not rent money.
  • #204
  • Dec 4, 2013 10:43am Dec 4, 2013 10:43am
Quoting tradista
{quote} The price of rushing things up is usually a blown account... PATIENCE is the king skill in this business, either while planning your strategy for months or executing your plan with discipline. Hopefully your 5 hundred are not rent money.
Its been years in total, 2 months on this method, good results live so far.

Its expendable,don't worry.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #205
  • Dec 4, 2013 10:51am Dec 4, 2013 10:51am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Its been years in total, 2 months on this method, good results live so far. Its expendable,don't worry.
  • #206
  • Dec 5, 2013 9:47am Dec 5, 2013 9:47am
Quoting kam.tngr
{quote} Hi, so what percentage annual returns are you making now that you are trading for a living? Have you been able to pay off all your debt?
Yeah I paid off most of my debt, at least that part that was suffocating my life, now its just the mortgage, so I'm ok... it only took one year of patience and strict rules and mm (both in and outside trading) and a "savings" mentality that I didn't have before.

Basically, if you change from a GRQ (get rich quick) mode to a SAS (slow and steady) mode, you'll find that it's not that difficult after all.

To live from trading, besides growing your account you also need to withdraw regularly, of course it should be less than the profits you make in order to capitalize on the compounding effect.

Consider this 5 year business estimate:

Starting capital: 10K.

Monthly goal: 15% (for first 3 years); 7% (more conservative due to large size trades - years 4/5)
Monthly withdrawals: 5% (2% for year 4/5)

Year 1: Ending balance: $36.000 - withdraws: $12.000
Year 2: Ending balance: $102.000 - withdraws: $38.000
Year 3: Ending balance: $323.000 - withdraws: $120.000
Year 4: Ending balance: $1.235.000 - withdraws: $250.000
Year 5: Ending balance: $4.817.000 - withdraws: $1.002.000


Does waiting 5 years to make 1M/Year total WITHDRAWS sound so bad ?

Is it realistic? I'm sure it is, but I'll tell you in a couple years more

My point is, instead of chasing some quick bucks, just concentrate on developing a solid strategy and a sound business plan. Test it, build some capital and go for it using a "long run" mentality.

Cheers.
  • #207
  • Dec 5, 2013 10:03am Dec 5, 2013 10:03am
Quoting tradista
{quote} Yeah I paid off most of my debt


Is it realistic?

Nice!!! Debt free would help!!


Realistic ? depends later on can you handle trading at $100 per pip or what ever stupidly high number it is ??

I expect to top out at $10 per pip, so 20K account required, make 20% per month and take it all as a wage, put some a side incase I have a bad month to top it back up to 20K, still twice what I earn currently.

500K to handle $100 per pip I'd guess, but still SCAREY!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #208
  • Dec 5, 2013 10:30am Dec 5, 2013 10:30am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote}500K to handle $100 per pip I'd guess, but still SCAREY!!
Yeah, all things in life feel scary the first time they're handled, then it becomes a habit... that's why my trading plan includes some heavy psychological work on mysefl and regular reassment and self-evaluation, the goal being to move higher and higher in the balance/profit/risk tolerance scale. Without this "part", you'll end up giving it all back.
The market loves to play with your mind without your noticing it
  • #209
  • Dec 5, 2013 10:35am Dec 5, 2013 10:35am
Everyone has got a "ceiling number" that they can handle, be on their balance, profit and stop loss. First thing is to "find" yours and work towards allowing yourself to make it bigger as you progress in your trading.
  • #210
  • Dec 5, 2013 10:45am Dec 5, 2013 10:45am
I trade full time for a living which was always my intention when i started. Not really to make millions, more for the freedom, I have been trading since 2008 and i guess i have followed a similar path to everyone else. Looking for a foolproof method, using every indicator ever invented, following other traders methods, getting stopped out too early, not letting winners run, having to exit the market when i should have been just getting in, so watching my loser instantly turn into a winner. The result? we all know the answer. Blown accounts, frustration, convinced at various times i would never get it (but never feeling like i wanted to give up). The good news? Eventually, about 2 tears ago the i just started to quickly get better and really never looked back. Don't misunderstand me i still have losing trades, (at least one every day) even some losing days.

So what is different now from before? Naked chart, no indicators, just trendlines which i identify and plot myself off daily, 4hr and 1hr charts using 5min for actual entry. Strict mm and sl. I don't chase the market anymore, no revenge trading, i wait for my levels to get hit, enter the market and manage the trade accordingly. I am not perfect, i make mistakes, but that's my point, you don't need to be perfect, just good enough. I think the reason you don;t see many full time traders posting here is just because reading the discussions here can be an unnecessary distraction, i know that is the case with me which is one of the reasons, for example, why i don't have a thread on here, too busy trading. You can do it guys, anyone can do it. Hope this helps and good luck with your trading.
  • #211
  • Dec 5, 2013 1:51pm Dec 5, 2013 1:51pm
Agreed, words of wisdom, Stephen.
Thanks.
  • #212
  • Edited 8:28pm Dec 6, 2013 3:46pm | Edited 8:28pm
Very well said Stephen.
Long hours and hard work is the best indicator for me.
  • #213
  • Dec 6, 2013 4:59pm Dec 6, 2013 4:59pm
Quoting tradista
{quote} Consider this 5 year business estimate: Starting capital: 10K. Monthly goal: 15% (for first 3 years); 7% (more conservative due to large size trades - years 4/5) Monthly withdrawals: 5% (2% for year 4/5) Year 1: Ending balance: $36.000 - withdraws: $12.000 Year 2: Ending balance: $102.000 - withdraws: $38.000 Year 3: Ending balance: $323.000 - withdraws: $120.000 Year 4: Ending balance: $1.235.000 - withdraws: $250.000 Year 5: Ending balance: $4.817.000 - withdraws: $1.002.000 Does waiting 5 years to make 1M/Year total WITHDRAWS sound so...
sorry to burst your bubble, but that plan is not realistic at all. what makes you believe that you can average 180% per year for the next 3 years ? do you really have the trading background, experience and knowledge which lead you to believe that you can achieve those results ?
just the fact that you're thinking in 'monthly goals' as if you were working for regular wages, indicates to me that you don't.
The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else. I hate that.
  • #214
  • Edited 6:34pm Dec 6, 2013 5:47pm | Edited 6:34pm
Quoting GubyIQ
{quote} sorry to burst your bubble, but that plan is not realistic at all. what makes you believe that you can average 180% per year for the next 3 years ? do you really have the trading background, experience and knowledge which lead you to believe that you can achieve those results ? just the fact that you're thinking in 'monthly goals' as if you were working for regular wages, indicates to me that you don't.
These are average values that you should take as reference, we all know sometimes you'll get above and sometimes you'll stay below.

Some people need goals to measure their progress against *something*, I'm one of them. I like to know where I stand in regards to where I should be, so I set goals, this way if I stand too far apart I can quickly reassess and stop without too much emotion involved.

I also happen to have spent several months doing nothing else but forward-testing my system (INCLUDING fine tuning the money management criteria) using simulation software that replicate real market conditions with real market data at a faster speed. Basically I DID what I'm saying on a 5 year span of real data. An absolutely abhorent, tedious and boring work but a necessary part of building things up towards creating a solid foundation for my business model.

Only when I closed this part of my business plan (the gathering of statistical data to establish my rules) did I went live with real investment capital and a real plan, a couple months ago. So far so good... so I guess I have some kind of an edge now.

I do appreciate your concern, it's a legitimate one.
  • #215
  • Dec 6, 2013 6:47pm Dec 6, 2013 6:47pm
Quoting tradista
{quote} Yeah I paid off most of my debt, at least that part that was suffocating my life, now its just the mortgage, so I'm ok... it only took one year of patience and strict rules and mm (both in and outside trading) and a "savings" mentality that I didn't have before. Basically, if you change from a GRQ (get rich quick) mode to a SAS (slow and steady) mode, you'll find that it's not that difficult after all. To live from trading, besides growing your account you also need to withdraw regularly, of course it should be less than the profits you...
You do realize that should your plan come to fruition you'd be the owner of the whole universe and surroundings in some years?

Quoting GubyIQ
{quote} sorry to burst your bubble, but that plan is not realistic at all. what makes you believe that you can average 180% per year for the next 3 years ? do you really have the trading background, experience and knowledge which lead you to believe that you can achieve those results ? just the fact that you're thinking in 'monthly goals' as if you were working for regular wages, indicates to me that you don't.
+1 to what Guby said. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Quoting tradista
{quote} These are average numbers, we all know sometimes you'll get above and sometimes you'll stay below. Some people need goals to measure their progress against something, I'm one of them. I like to know where I stand in regards to where I should be, so I set goals. I also happen to have spent several months doing nothing else but forward-testing my system (INCLUDING money management rules) using simulation software that replicate real market conditions with real market data at a faster speed. Basically I DID what I'm saying on a 5 year span...
I understand you've put in the work into your plan/edge, but it's time for you to be more realistic for your own sake. Man makes plans, God laughs...

The only certainty in trading is that Mr Market will always do his best to screw as many as possible at any given time. That's the reality the plan should prepare you for.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #216
  • Dec 6, 2013 8:51pm Dec 6, 2013 8:51pm
yes..anybody could trade for living....don't trade like a gambler...but trade smartly...but sad to say it requires a lot of harrd work
  • #217
  • Edited 10:52pm Dec 6, 2013 10:39pm | Edited 10:52pm
I am NOT a fulltime trader. Trading is just my hobby. However, few years ago, traded fulltime for about a year. Results were not great, but I remained profitable during this period. Do not remember exact figure, but I believe made about 3% in that year. That was my story, now here is what I have learned about trading for living.

1. The holigrails do exist. All you have to do is to find one. The ones among us who want to adopt trading as their profession or for living must search for their holigrails. Once it is found, develop a method that consistently generates profit while keeping risk under control. This is not a small task.

2. I recommend an initial capital of 100x of monthly return you are looking for. For example, If you want this market to pay you $3,000 a month, you should preferably start with $300,000. if you don't have that much, at least $50,000. If you cannot invest even $50,000, lower your expectations.

3. Of all, the most negative factor affecting performance of a fulltime trader is the pressure of generating a minimum monthly return. Find a solution for this problem and you will be ok.

4. Carefully select your broker/s. Shortlist 10 of them, open accounts with few of them and keep your eggs in three or four different baskets.

5. Never forget that you are a professional trader, your job is to give and also take small blows, day in and day out. Never try to knock out this market. No one has ever done that. Not even Jesse Livermore or the person next door who became a millionaire doing stocks. For every such person, there are million other who never made it. Your job is not to get lucky, but trading your method in most professional way. The word "Pro" is not as professional as the word "Professional Trader". Don't be a pro, but a professional trader. Trade very professionally if you want to succeed.

6. There are no short cuts. It is hard, laborious and boring work. You won't enjoy trading, but the money you make out of it.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #218
  • Dec 7, 2013 2:19am Dec 7, 2013 2:19am
Quoting goods
I posted this a last week. Hope this helps http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=367810
You've just confirmed what's taken me 12 months to realize Goods. I recently got rid of all the crap (lagging indicators etc) and went back to PA and naked charts and all of a sudden the light bulb went on. I'm still a FX novice but I invested successfully in stocks way before computers back in the early 80's and at 55 I've got quite a few more years learning in Forex yet but I feel far more comfortable working with daily charts and H4, far less stress. Thanks for the confirmation, it's about the 3rd or 4th in the last month or so.
Per Ardua Ad Astra - Through Adversity To The Stars
  • #219
  • Dec 7, 2013 4:46am Dec 7, 2013 4:46am
Chicky no. 2 surely amount required depends on how good a trader you are and how good your edge is.

Doubt many of us on here could get close to 50k let alone 300k.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #220
  • Dec 7, 2013 5:30am Dec 7, 2013 5:30am
Quoting vox dei
{quote} You do realize that should your plan come to fruition you'd be the owner of the whole universe and surroundings in some years?.
Hell, you just found out what my life's purpose is
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