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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #1,321
  • Dec 1, 2013 8:02pm Dec 1, 2013 8:02pm
Quoting Turveyd
Well done, for actually getting out of him how he trades
He didn't. If it's that easy to get it wouldn't be called a holy grail.
  • #1,322
  • Dec 1, 2013 8:07pm Dec 1, 2013 8:07pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} He didn't. If it's that easy to get it wouldn't be called a holy grail.
I think he took a guess at what your doing and got it right so you opened up finally.

So you closed out the long side on NU but your short side is going against you, but you'll wait for ever if needs be till it goes Positive.

Anyways, happy trading, SLEEP!!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,323
  • Dec 1, 2013 8:08pm Dec 1, 2013 8:08pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} He didn't. If it's that easy to get it wouldn't be called a holy grail.

And it's only a holy grail, if you can not let positions run against you hugely and wipe out your profits.

You've got to have some method as to when to trade and what to trade, to avoid too much of above happening I presume ??
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,324
  • Dec 1, 2013 8:12pm Dec 1, 2013 8:12pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} And it's only a holy grail, if you can not let positions run against you hugely and wipe out your profits. You've got to have some method as to when to trade and what to trade, to avoid too much of above happening I presume ??
It helps if you understand how the banks work. Their wiping out my profit doesn't scare me at all, and I even expect them to.

Who said I opened up ? I have been saying all along I was long and short in eur/usd. I am short only in nzd.
  • #1,325
  • Dec 1, 2013 9:15pm Dec 1, 2013 9:15pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} It helps if you understand how the banks work. Their wiping out my profit doesn't scare me at all, and I even expect them to. Who said I opened up ? I have been saying all along I was long and short in eur/usd. I am short only in nzd.

I do not understand how banks work nowadays....but I imagine they are out to make a profit. So with that being said, I find it hard to believe that they would invest millions of dollars to move price around to take out your stops, or whipe out your profit.....Seems to me that a couple of hundreds are not worth the risk. Maybe even treasuries or some other hidden fees on consumers might yield safer results.
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #1,326
  • Dec 2, 2013 3:29am Dec 2, 2013 3:29am
Quoting Magix
{quote} And you still seem to be hunting for the same Acorn, blind squirrel. I know that Dturv trades, and RJ has an eye for the bullshit... You sir, seem to actually have a lot less market sense and ability than does Joe. Makes me wonder... Where Turvey is on a blind rampage to justify his own trading and RJ is just an observational commentator, where do you fit in? Are you joining the hate parade because you are looking for sympathy/support...or is this your idea of what these forums have to offer? Again, I will restate my original comment. Find...
You seem to really misunderstand me so read this post - I hope it helps
Don't get me wrong but... I don't give a damn to what you think. Not because I'm arrogant or borne but cause you don't know A THING about me. And that's because your judgement is based on my activity on this forum which is close to zero. Particularly you take into consideration my posts on this thread, those as I already wrote:
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} {quote} I just enjoyed reading this nonsense cause one… muppet seems to be the best word, thanks RJ for it, [BeginnerJoe] is really funny.
Seems to me you take it this way cause you don't use stops too - that's what I don't really care about. By the way I never even wrote ANYTHING about whether stops are good or not but you're too hostile to see anything except what you want. The only point of me being on FF is Genesis thread. Cause I'm here to make money - some fun during process is a secondary thing. Guess why I wave less than 100 posts? Cause I didn't really post here before last November days - when I got permission to post on RJ thread - and that's not that I discovered forex in may 2013.
My main point was that BeginnerJoe is a crazy man and his posts doesn't make ANY sense which I showed in mine by the way. Maybe he has a strategy - I dunno but what he wrote here is a complete uncanny bullshit. If you, after reading this thread, disagree with this statement (hope you didn't mean it) you don't cost a penny and your red thing to the right of your nickname as well.
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #1,327
  • Dec 2, 2013 4:45am Dec 2, 2013 4:45am
Quoting Gumrai
{quote} For me it is important to know how much of my account I will be putting at risk when I enter a trade and that is not possible unless a SL is in place.
Im glad to read the second post on a new thread to find the correct aswer. Good trader mentality does exist
  • #1,328
  • Dec 2, 2013 6:30am Dec 2, 2013 6:30am
Quoting RedRhino
{quote} Im glad to read the second post on a new thread to find the correct aswer. Good trader mentality does exist
Well, yes. For those of you who do use SL's as a 'cost' for a trade, where the price has moved against your original entry (but only slightly?), it's an easy way to quantify the specific loss.

However, as you actually already 'believe' that using a negative SL when putting on a trade makes sense - obviously you're then going to turn around and condone someone else doing the same thing as you as 'good trader mentality'. (Btw, that's kind of a roundabout way to pat yourself on the back and reaffirm your own believe that you're doing the right thing.)

Buy why not learn to have a better mentality, as I believe I do, by not placing that negative SL in the first place. How would you then quantify the risk? What if SL's didn't exist. Would you refuse to trade the market?

I CAN trade that way and I DO. ;-) I've also started making money whereas before I was struggling (some wins, some losses, but only just keeping my head above water, as the SL's were burning my capital.).
  • #1,329
  • Dec 2, 2013 7:11am Dec 2, 2013 7:11am
Quoting Mikkk01
Guess why I wave less than 100 posts? Cause I didn't really post here before last November days - when I got permission to post on RJ thread - and that's not that I discovered forex in may 2013. My main point was that BeginnerJoe is a crazy man and his posts doesn't make ANY sense which I showed in mine by the way.

I had already figured that you were new to market and thus my comments.

Still going to say the same...until you have a sense of market, you should spend more time worry about your own account, less time with somebody else.

How many of your less than hundred posts have you committed to calling out somebody as a mad man...in a takes one to know one sort of way, you are coming across with your own breed of lunacy.

Keep your focus, dude.

There'll be a lot of time for you to talk trash, when you have actual experience to weigh in with.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #1,330
  • Dec 2, 2013 7:23am Dec 2, 2013 7:23am
Quoting the redlion
{quote} I do not understand how banks work nowadays....but I imagine they are out to make a profit. So with that being said, I find it hard to believe that they would invest millions of dollars to move price around to take out your stops, or whipe out your profit.....Seems to me that a couple of hundreds are not worth the risk. Maybe even treasuries or some other hidden fees on consumers might yield safer results.
Everyone and their dog claim to know how much it costs the banks to move prices. My tests indicate it cost them 0, depending on the market conditions. This is why I believe they would go after a 0.0001 penny win if people are stupid enough to leave that laying on the ground. As for your few hundred, I believe that would constitute a major pay day for them.

If only more people are as generous as you are, perhaps the banks will no longer need to be so desperate as to go after every 0.0001 penny.
  • #1,331
  • Dec 2, 2013 7:35am Dec 2, 2013 7:35am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Everyone and their dog claim to know how much it costs the banks to move prices. My tests indicate it cost them 0, depending on the market conditions. This is why I believe they would go after a 0.0001 penny win if people are stupid enough to leave that laying on the ground. As for your few hundred, I believe that would constitute a major pay day for them. If only more people are as generous as you are, perhaps the banks will no longer need to be so desperate as to go after every 0.0001 penny.

So 99.9% of all retail traders are losers.....but not you.

"Everyone and their dog claim to know how much it costs the banks to move prices".........but YOU have done 'tests' that makes YOU believe that (again) you are right and everyone else is wrong....lol.....OMG......the men in white coats will be coming for you soon......
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #1,332
  • Dec 2, 2013 7:58am Dec 2, 2013 7:58am
Quoting Magix
{quote} you should spend more time worry about your own account
You still don't quite get me but I DO get you.
Your advice make sense, point is: that's exactly what I've been doing for the past year like 8-10 hours per day - whatever you say I found Genesis not from here actually, it was on some russian forum, hopefully I managed to find a more reliable source of info eventually. I didn't even register here at first - for like half a year I was only reading:nerd:. You call me a newbie, well, I never said I'm a guru, but if you think of it, one can know Forex for a decade still having a day job, which means that *focus*, so to speak, is diversified + lots of stress is there (usually)or just has a wrong source of information and that's not gonna contribute to shortening a learning curve - I can pay an electricity bill without that thing... you get the point.
Quoting Magix
{quote}How many of your less than hundred posts have you committed to calling out somebody as a mad man...in a takes one to know one sort of way, you are coming across with your own breed of lunacy.
You still don't have a thing to contrapose to the fact that you know nothing about me - but... I don't really care much about it, as you have advised I care much more about my trading. If I need REAL stuff I go to Genesis. And you are not to judge how I'm having fun which was NOT at all trolling by the way. The only thing I wrote in my posts were Joe's quotes which were, to sum up, what I called Diary of a Madman. Once again if you say what he wrote MAKES sense, read again: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...43#post7125343
Don't see? - Sorry then...
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #1,333
  • Dec 2, 2013 7:59am Dec 2, 2013 7:59am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Everyone and their dog claim to know how much it costs the banks to move prices. My tests indicate it cost them 0, depending on the market conditions. This is why I believe they would go after a 0.0001 penny win if people are stupid enough to leave that laying on the ground. As for your few hundred, I believe that would constitute a major pay day for them. If only more people are as generous as you are, perhaps the banks will no longer need to be so desperate as to go after every 0.0001 penny.
Just because a lot of your SL's get hit, doesn't mean there gunning for your SL, if you write down a SL level on paper for your next 100 trades, then guess what they'll be hit just the same.

The issue is, you can't trade, yes you can Nedge and use pure math's to maybe make a profit, which if you happy with that then all fine and good.

The fact you took your NU Long so quickly means your a scalper at heart, the long was on the right side of the trend, you took what 10pips ?? Then patted yourself on the back while ignoring the losing trade which is -40 area and your still stuck in.

You'd be MUCH better of setting a TP of say 50 or maybe 100 ? on both sides and leaving them, you'd be stuck in more but atleast your costs being Spread and maybe Commisions are relatively lower than what your doing.

Sorry Magix, I still think mental issues here, back to rambling, he had a lucid moment last night interestingly and today back to normal.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,334
  • Dec 2, 2013 8:43am Dec 2, 2013 8:43am
Quoting Mikkk01
well, I never said I'm a guru
I think you are a guru .... for hospital words.
  • #1,335
  • Dec 2, 2013 8:47am Dec 2, 2013 8:47am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Just because a lot of your SL's get hit, doesn't mean there gunning for your SL, if you write down a SL level on paper for your next 100 trades, then guess what they'll be hit just the same. The issue is, you can't trade, yes you can Nedge and use pure math's to maybe make a profit, which if you happy with that then all fine and good. The fact you took your NU Long so quickly means your a scalper at heart, the long was on the right side of the trend, you took what 10pips ?? Then patted yourself on the back while ignoring the losing trade...
Not sure where you get your stuff from. My nzd currently stands at 0.8172, -18 pips. It's on a millipede profit runner strat that does not involve taking profits. It runs profits, see ?

Your claims of my SL being hit is just plain false. I have no SL to hit.
  • #1,336
  • Dec 2, 2013 8:49am Dec 2, 2013 8:49am
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} You still don't quite get me but I DO get you. Your advice make sense, point is: that's exactly what I've been doing for the past year like 8-10 hours per day - whatever you say I found Genesis not from here actually, it was on some russian forum, hopefully I managed to find a more reliable source of info eventually. I didn't even register here at first - for like half a year I was only reading:nerd:. You call me a newbie, well, I never said I'm a guru, but if you think of it, one can know Forex for a decade still having a day job,...
tl;dr
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #1,337
  • Edited 9:59am Dec 2, 2013 9:40am | Edited 9:59am
Quoting Magix
{quote} tl;dr
Why I'm not surprised?
Cause you probably don't read books just like that funny clown you were
Quoting Magix
{quote} siding
but stopped recently somehow. Why so?
Quoting Magix
{quote} Joe knows what he is talking about
Oh, really? You don't like to read - so you'll never get to know that he doesn't...
And you seem to have the same symptoms: you deny the facts, instead of helping a man to solve his problems you support him in his madness, you don't use stops (think you'll get away with it? ), even megalomania is here:
Quoting Magix
{quote} You really are the epitome of JOE market.
Dunno if you get that far in reading but I wonder:some guys seem to respect you - if for the sake of stuff like what you wrote here - that's very sad.
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #1,338
  • Dec 2, 2013 9:46am Dec 2, 2013 9:46am
I know I said that I was done with this thread, but that's what you get for following somebody....

How banks work #101
Quoting the redlion
{quote} I do not understand how banks work nowadays....but I imagine they are out to make a profit. So with that being said, I find it hard to believe that they would invest millions of dollars to move price around to take out your stops, or whipe out your profit.....Seems to me that a couple of hundreds are not worth the risk. Maybe even treasuries or some other hidden fees on consumers might yield safer results.
Banks work on inter-bank trust. They place orders and nobody gives it a second thought. The orders can be HUGE and nobody will care, up to a point. All that matters is that when their books are reconciled the numbers must add-up. They will do this at least every 24-hours, they may even have to do it on every currency fix point, but I suspect every 24-hours is when it really matters. A bank can move a couple of yards without any other bank bothering, and they move it back again an hour later with the same amount of notice.

Why do they do this? They are pulling the market to run stops, or set up a bear/bull traps.

How much do they need to move it? Well if they make 5-pips on a couple of $ yards that is clear profit of $1-million, which will look good on any trader's book if they do it daily.

How much does it cost a bank to move a $ yard? Nothing. Not a bent penny (if anybody knows different please post). For a bank the spread might be .01-pip. All that matters is that at the reconciliation time the round-trip sum is zero, plus profits which had better be a positive number else the trader gets fired.

note: It was only when Lehman Bros crashed that this system fell apart. Suddenly no bank would trust any other bank for anything. It took about 6 weeks for that situation to start to recover, IIRC.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #1,339
  • Dec 2, 2013 9:54am Dec 2, 2013 9:54am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Not sure where you get your stuff from. My nzd currently stands at 0.8172, -18 pips. It's on a millipede profit runner strat that does not involve taking profits. It runs profits, see ? Your claims of my SL being hit is just plain false. I have no SL to hit.
Argghhhhh!!! lack of basic logic again hey BJ.

Your previous trades when you used a SL, the SL's where hit because they where hit, not because the banks have it in for you personally, make up a SL with your trades, don't use it, but watch it still gets hit exactly like if you had the SL really in.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,340
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:01am Dec 2, 2013 10:01am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Sounds like most businesses are at net loss by your definition. With all their money tied up in millions of lines of products, Walmart would probably be the biggest losers of them all. Likewise for intel. But twitter should be a winner, because they don't have inventory of anything and presumably have all cash. I find it amazing for someone who's considering himself trading when he hasn't even a position.
When a business buys inventory, it converts one asset (cash) into another asset (inventory). A business like Walmart turns its inventory over very quickly. Businesses that fail to turn inventory fast enough to pay the bills tend to perform less efficiently when compared to fast-turning competitors. I am not aware of any business that knowingly converts cash into non-performing assets, or assets that have a negative value (there are businesses that buy distressed assets, but their business competence is to convert a non-performing asset and turn it into a performing asset). The basic idea is to take account of your assets to make sure you are managing your business properly. That is to say, you total your performing assets (e.g.,open and closed trades that result in a positive addition to your margin account) and non-performing assets (e.g., open and closed trades that result in a subtraction to your margin account), and if you come up with a positive number, you're doing OK. If you come up with a negative number, you're not doing OK. Finally, any business person knows/appreciates the opportunity cost of their investments (the cost of a dollar invested in something is the cost of opportunities forgone), so the cost of a negative performing asset (e.g., a trade against the trend), is the ability to invest in another trade of equal size. Therefore, if you are hedging/nedging you should probably keep your activities to a minimum.
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