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Can you actually live off Forex trading?

  • #61
  • Edited 1:05pm Dec 1, 2013 12:29pm | Edited 1:05pm
Quoting HedgePiglet
Hello Mingary, The risk with sarcasm is that unless it's well-timed, it is easily interpreted as simply being obnoxious. Infer from that what you will. Second, the question was: "Can you make a living from trading forex and are there any real individuals out there actually doing this." The question was not "Share your trading strategy." The answer was, yes, I know of at least 3 people who do make a comfortable living out of forex. I spoke in the 3rd person, exactly because one risks exactly this sort of vitriole and you have not disappointed. That's...
Forex factory is a public forum
Anyone can say anything
The proof is in the pudding

(Darn! did I just create another haiku?)
  • #62
  • Dec 1, 2013 1:14pm Dec 1, 2013 1:14pm
Having never had poetry as a reply, I find myself a little confused. Is it a romantic gesture?

I have removed the unnecessary from a screen grab from one of our pairs on Friday. The snap is from shortly before 07:00 to 18:00 and lets assume one knows nothing about forex, trading or technical analysis.

If I simply told one to 'Buy' when you see a green arrow and 'Sell' when you see a red one.
We are a little more intelligent than this and can confirm we extracted the following results from this very chart this friday. Again, the nuts and bolts of it are not for this forum nor the profit strategy we applied.
Points generated:
+96 +55 +33 +21 +54 +71 +22 +39 +41 +46
No losers.
These levels are from the actual entry of the signal, not just the most attractive bar after the fact.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screen Shot 2013-12-01 at 18.56.24.png Size: 180 KB


I grant it was a normal day and we didn't trade beyond mid-morning as this was not our only chart. I'd be interested to see a screen grab of your strategy you traded on Friday please? Or if you would like me to grab a currency pair of your choice on Friday, applying our template and I shall be happy to upload, in case you accuse me of choosing a grab to suit me.
Or more prose?

HP

PS: Its my first screen grab reply and I apologise if it was not a success.
In life you get 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
  • #63
  • Dec 1, 2013 1:54pm Dec 1, 2013 1:54pm
How fun. It's a show down.

Well there partner, my kung fu is better than your kung fu (:

My last trade (I did nothing on friday, due to the fact I have a real job that pays real bills, if you get my drift...)

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...16#post7114316
  • #64
  • Dec 1, 2013 2:12pm Dec 1, 2013 2:12pm
Back you knave...
Ok, included please find my screen grab for the EURUSD pair, including the 25th, 26th and 27th of November.

We would not trade this pair as it has a 10 day Average Daily Range of only 65 points. This means if I want to extract any real result, I'm going to have to hold onto it for a day or more. But, not to be outdone I have drawn in trade lines anyway, showing the two trades we may have taken for a +28 and +67 result. There was a very pretty entry for +48 but it fired at 23:54 and even sentient beings like ourselves (this is tongue in cheek for those who missed an earlier comment by Mingary) need to sleep.

My current spread on EURUSD is 0.5 so I can largely ignore it as its a cheap pair.

Again, green is up and red is down.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screen Shot 2013-12-01 at 20.09.33.png Size: 188 KB


Perhaps you could pick a currency pair and a day at random and we can compare more?
The single point I hope to make, is with the correct strategy, good software and a level of intelligence we DO make consistent money on Forex. Which was the original question.

If any other member want to have a look at other pairs on other days, please don't be shy, I shall be happy to post.

HP
In life you get 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
  • #65
  • Dec 1, 2013 3:25pm Dec 1, 2013 3:25pm
Quoting HedgePiglet
Back you knave...The single point I hope to make, is with the correct strategy, good software and a level of intelligence we DO make consistent money on Forex.
The knave was caught hiding in the nave of the church... probably to get away from a margin call...

1) there is no correct strategy
2) good software .. you mean a trading system? Ouch.. Don't you know a profitable one does not exist ?
3) a level of intelligence ... not true, as opposed to success in the real world, the dumber the better in trading.
  • #66
  • Dec 1, 2013 3:36pm Dec 1, 2013 3:36pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} The knave was caught hiding in the nave of the church... probably to get away from a margin call... 1) there is no correct strategy 2) good software .. you mean a trading system? Ouch.. Don't you know a profitable one does not exist ? 3) a level of intelligence ... not true, as opposed to success in the real world, the dumber the better in trading.
I suggest the usefulness of our discussion has ended.

If replying with your hands clamped over your ears and shouting "it doesn't work it doesn't work" makes you happy then I have no response.

I simply do not agree but thank you for your thoughts. I see no point in trying to construct a serious reply.

HP
In life you get 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
  • #67
  • Dec 1, 2013 3:45pm Dec 1, 2013 3:45pm
Quoting HedgePiglet
{quote} I suggest the usefulness of our discussion has ended. If replying with your hands clamped over your ears and shouting "it doesn't work it doesn't work" makes you happy then I have no response. I simply do not agree but thank you for your thoughts. I see no point in trying to construct a serious reply. HP
Not a problem at all, thank you for your time and effort.
  • #68
  • Dec 2, 2013 7:54pm Dec 2, 2013 7:54pm
Quoting verti
Hello everyone. This is my first post on this forum. Before I started writing this I read a lot of the threads and discussions here and people's opinions, etc. I'm extremely new to Forex trading. I just started reading babypips.com and getting acquainted with the terminology and fundamentals. It's very interesting and I like it. I plan to learn as much as I can for a while by reading forums and sites that have information, after which I will be opening a demo account and play around for a few months to really learn what this is all about. I'm going...
Hello Verti,
Can normal people, with small capital ($1000-3000) make money and live off trading Forex? NO, in my opinion 50k but less if you live in India. Can people make money? Yes. Knowledge does help and you can do get better with experience and yes doing the hard work does make a difference. In playing poker if your definition of luck is preparation + opportunity. Then yes forex is similar.
Preparation of a Trader:
Develop a systematic trading approach in terms of strategy.
Develop a systematic money management scheme
Spend time in a Forex Tester backtesting gathering data. Like winning %, losing %, mean risk/reward multiples and peak to trough drawdown.
Forget about goals of "x" pips per day, "x" % per day, ect.
Put all your focus and energy into executing your system without fail.

Spend alot of time backtesting your trading systems. Then use a demo account to learn to execute all the entry, exit, stop loss and take profit rules of you system. Try to make you decisions as mechanical as possible. In my opinion demo trading success does not translate to live trading performance, but is good for learning the trading platform and practicing the rules of your trading system.

Then open a small forex live account and trade small lots of 1% or less consider 0.5%. The purpose is to see if your live trading can verify your backtesting results not about making a huge sum of money. Take 1 to 3 months to do this. Then add to you account and increase your position %. I recomend 1% and no more than 2%.

It is realistic to create trading strategy with a 50% winning, 1 to 2 risk/reward, a trade frequency of 5 per week or one per day, risking 2% per trade
1 trade per day x 22 trading days in an average month = 22 trades per month
At 50/50 win/loss 11 trades will lose you 2% each, and 11 trades will make you 4% each.
(risk/reward is 1 to 2) = total monthly profit of 22%
risking 1% per trade monthly profit of 11%

Hope this helps, good trading
  • #69
  • Dec 25, 2013 9:33pm Dec 25, 2013 9:33pm
Read kathy lien millionaire traders, it is filled with successful traders who started from nothing and turned it into a full-time gig
  • #70
  • Dec 26, 2013 3:45am Dec 26, 2013 3:45am
Quoting GrassrootTdr
Read kathy lien millionaire traders, it is filled with successful traders who started from nothing and turned it into a full-time gig
Kathy Lien - and many like her have a vested interest in perpetuating the lie.
  • #71
  • Dec 26, 2013 7:01am Dec 26, 2013 7:01am
Quoting atoppofx
You probably won't be able to make a living from forex trading by having such a small account. You will have to build you account slowly. If you are a beginner I would advice you not to open a very large account because you will most likely blow up the account. Instead only risk an amount that you are comfortable losing, so that you can get your feet wet in trading.
Yes, all new traders should start with a micro..and move on to mini and so on. Working out the intricacies of fx trading on the first go is just not possible for a beginner..
  • #72
  • Edited 2:39pm Dec 27, 2013 7:18am | Edited 2:39pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Kathy Lien - and many like her have a vested interest in perpetuating the lie.

Relax nothing more than a suggestion, new member so if you plan on bashing please explain why someone like kathy is interested who is currently involved in her own fund would do that?, outside of the obvious book sales reason because I doubt her book made the best sellers list.
  • #73
  • Dec 27, 2013 12:10pm Dec 27, 2013 12:10pm
Quoting GrassrootTdr
{quote} Relax niothing more than a suggestion, new member so if you plan on bashing please explain why someone like kathy is interested who is currently involved in her own fund would do that?, outside of the obvious book sales reason because I doubt her book made the best sellers list.
Is it not obvious ?
(Don't ask me, ask her)
  • #74
  • Dec 27, 2013 1:18pm Dec 27, 2013 1:18pm
Well first of all, Traders who are really successful and can live from trading certainly do not post in an internet forum like this, because this is way below their level. I mean,why wasting time with the unsuccessful crowd?
Forex is a losers game.
  • #75
  • Jan 9, 2014 3:10pm Jan 9, 2014 3:10pm
Quoting HedgePiglet
The short answer to your question is yes. I am in a team of 3 and we all generate a comfortable income from trading forex. We have different appetites for risk and reward but there are those in our team who fly their own helicopters and drive limited edition performance cars. All these assets are paid for. This is not an impossible. I hope this encourages you. HP

Quoting Mingary
{quote} We are so grateful that you have chosen to come down from trading-heaven to impart some hope on the less fortunate. Now would you be so kind as to show us the way oh, you-who-made-it.
Herein lies the problem with these forums. Countless threads are started like this - Can one make a living trading Forex? Then someone who is doing it pipes in and the trolls descend like white on rice telling him that's BS and it can't be done or asking him to devulge his system. Why do people get angry and hostile when someone says they are successful and making a living trading Forex but don't feel the need or responsibility to tell others how they do it? No wonder so many successful traders don't want to answer these questions.

My take is yes you can earn a living and a very comfortable one but I think you need some decent capital to get started. I went live Jan 1st of last year with $30,000 and in a year's time grew that to $165,000 and have since incorporated my trading business for the various tax advantages. I've since added funds to my account as I'm making more trading Forex than my equity investments. This is not a get rich quick scheme. This is my business and I am very serious about it. After 25 years in the corporate world I am doing something I love and living a very comfortable life from Forex.

I see so many starting with small under capitalized accounts hoping to double down their way to fame and fortune. It just doesn't work that way. Now I'm not going to get into the specifics of what I do because no matter what some TROLL will get hostile - Hell I'm sure someone will anyway just for me saying I'm making money trading Forex and most don't believe that to be reality. The only thing I'll say is my style is very different than the herd and how the majority of the herd is trained. There are several ways to skin a cat. Find one that works for you and treat this as a business - not a hobby.

Hope this helps to encourage
  • #76
  • Jan 9, 2014 3:37pm Jan 9, 2014 3:37pm
Quoting yazzie
Herein lies the problem with these forums. Countless threads are started like this - Can one make a living trading Forex? Then someone who is doing it pipes in and the trolls descend like white on rice telling him that's BS and it can't be done or asking him to devulge his system. Why do people get angry and hostile when someone says they are successful and making a living trading Forex but don't feel the need or responsibility to tell others how they do it.
Hi Yazzie,
I dwelt (dwelled?) in here for less than a week and was initially upset by the reactions I got, but it has since converted to bemusement.
I made several offers of sharing what we do, and actually enjoyed abusive private emails for my troubles. Sadly you are right. People hate the idea that a system works, unless it's them who is being advantaged. Interestingly, I reported my experiences to my trading partners and we decided to approach the 'inventor' of the foundation of our system and he has personally endorsed what we do and has asked for the rights to distribute our system in his home geography.

So the vitriol that drove me away from these forums actually has galvanised what may be an early retirement for our team. If we can find our way 'down to earth'.
To those handful of people who troubled to ask what we are doing, who have subsequently seen better trading results, you know who you are and I thank you for helping us sharpen it even more.
In life you get 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
  • #77
  • Edited 6:49pm Jan 9, 2014 6:11pm | Edited 6:49pm
Quoting HedgePiglet
{quote} Hi Yazzie, I dwelt (dwelled?) in here for less than a week and was initially upset by the reactions I got, but it has since converted to bemusement. I made several offers of sharing what we do, and actually enjoyed abusive private emails for my troubles. Sadly you are right. People hate the idea that a system works, unless it's them who is being advantaged. Interestingly, I reported my experiences to my trading partners and we decided to approach the 'inventor' of the foundation of our system and he has personally endorsed what we do and...

Hello All (not trolls suckers)

I understand why some guys makes those silly/hurtful comments. It's weak minded people (maybe 20 maybe 40 but acting as someone who is 10) and also who have lost lots of money and hence, angry.

Please keep sharing. I am the latter btw...lost lots , but not because of that i treat others (potentially successful people ) like crap. I asked this question many times and I must say I found absolutely no proofs anybody /anywhere lives off Forex.

So, I still don't think is possible, but would be delighted to be proved wrong. I believe there are companies yes, that do achieve this goal. Of course i am talking about individuals. Without having powerful servers and crazy algorithms (as I heard some companies have) that will trade news in a way only a machine can do it.
  • #78
  • Jan 9, 2014 6:35pm Jan 9, 2014 6:35pm
I guess the 'make a living' value is subjective. It may be easier to put it in perspective.

There are now 4 members of our team, and the average account size is in the £100,000 region. One has just recently joined and has substantially less than this.

In an effort to put it into perspective, and realising I'm going to get trolled again for it, I shall put it this way: the AVERAGE DAILY CASH INCREASE between the 4 of us is circa £4,000 per day. That's each day each member trades. We do not all trade every day, perhaps 3 days per week each.

The 'biggest' member in the team with a larger account does an average £16,000 per day.

That may be peanuts for some reading this. That may be a lot, what I can confirm is this is enough for us. Our 'biggest' week last year (the record if you like) was made at £164,000 in 5 days by one member. I understand the national average income pre-tax in the UK is £20,800 per year. That's around $30,000 in round numbers. Against this, $270,000 is a respectable week.

Our worst consecutive losing days in a row last year was 7 and represented LESS than 10% of any individual account.

I hope this helps.

HP
In life you get 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
  • #79
  • Jan 9, 2014 7:03pm Jan 9, 2014 7:03pm
Hi Mate

What are you able to share to prove your story? i mean, the numbers are more than great, but just numbers right? I heard and read this in many places....then suddenly we get the "....and if you join us now ...for a mere xxx$ a month....bla bla bla"

I joined 3 so far (won't do anymore). They got my money, I got nothing from 2. I did got knowledge from 1 here in Aussie land, but their approach, as all systemic preaching selling companies out there, just won't work.

I put this as the golden egg goose (i think that's the translation of our golden egg chicken in Spanish) example: If a system was profitable, then you can code it, make it run every day (automate it) and see your account get bigger and bigger every week from a laptop laying down on some beach Paradise .

This is a fallacy. I mean, is like generating energy from void. Yet, every thing is done in a way that (as in las Vegas) you see what they want you to see. It seems possible...smart people can't argue these FX theories easily, can they? they just don't trade based more or less on what I just said above (there is no golden goose, no money without effort)

Even a monkey can code a profitable system, I did many times ... until... until that year when everything goes against you and your Drawdown is double the predicted one....(usually the year you start trading) That is, back testing is just a nice illusion (necessary, and better than blind trading, but nothing else)

My point is that i imagine that a combination of many factors can create a real trader, I just wonder what those factors are...is just what you read every where (mindset, backtesting, bla bla) ??? or are only companies who can do this? by analyzing tons of live data in microsecond and making a couple of pips (that multiplied by 124113312312313) make a profit?
  • #80
  • Jan 9, 2014 7:19pm Jan 9, 2014 7:19pm
Quoting thewriter30
Hi Mate What are you able to share to prove your story?
Why someone would have to prove his (live) profitability here on FF ?

Except if something is being sold, there would be absolutely no reason to prove anything.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
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