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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #1,201
  • Dec 1, 2013 8:33am Dec 1, 2013 8:33am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} And losers think everyone else is a loser. Since you have already stated you are not profitable, we know where you stand.
It a good one. Stay away from the court of law. Any attorney will tell you this in the situation.
  • #1,202
  • Dec 1, 2013 8:34am Dec 1, 2013 8:34am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Interesting bit of double talk there, so it's a guarantee with a conspiracy theory the banks are out to get you exception, interesting!!
There is no conspiracy. A stop is a mathematical guarantee to buy high, sell low. The banks don't get you. The math does.
  • #1,203
  • Dec 1, 2013 8:36am Dec 1, 2013 8:36am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} And losers think everyone else is a loser. Since you have already stated you are not profitable, we know where you stand.

A Lie yet again....

I've been profitable or break even trader for many years

I've been moderately profitable for approx the last 6weeks, since devising a new method, still trying to improve on method / my application of Live trading to get to HUGELY Profitable, anything less than that, really isn't worth my time.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,204
  • Dec 1, 2013 8:41am Dec 1, 2013 8:41am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} There is no conspiracy. A stop is a mathematical guarantee to buy high, sell low. The banks don't get you. The math does.
You don't get it do you, the Stop isn't the issue, it's the person that places the stop, you can't trade, therefore this is your experience of stops, purely your experience.

So if I took GU long at 1.6300 and put a SL at 0.0001 would my SL be filled ?? ofcourse not ( without a nuclear war ), so that is not a guarantee.


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gu...fCFc2RhQeyooBI

Suggest you read up on what the word " guarantee " means!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,205
  • Edited 9:37am Dec 1, 2013 9:20am | Edited 9:37am
If buying 10 and stopping at 5 doesn't give you a guarantee to exit at 5 then the stop is worthless. In that case you have more reasons to not use stops. If your broker refuses to guarantee your stops, I suggest you find another broker.
  • #1,206
  • Dec 1, 2013 9:39am Dec 1, 2013 9:39am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
If buying 10 and stopping at 5 doesn't give you a guarantee to exit at 5 then the stop is worthless. In that case you have more reasons to not use stops. If you broker refuses to guarantee your stops, I suggest you find another broker.

And we ignore all logic and everything and repeat the same old shite, nice!!

It only guarantees to Exit you at Market Order* once 5 is hit, the object is to take a profit before 5 is hit. doh!!



*The Market order during news could exit at 0 or less ofcourse.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,207
  • Dec 1, 2013 9:47am Dec 1, 2013 9:47am
Quoting Turveyd
It only guarantees to Exit you at Market Orde
That's my point. It's a guarantee to sell lower than you bought. Just because you chose to sell at a different price doesn't make the stop less of a mathematical guarantee to buy high and sell low.
  • #1,208
  • Dec 1, 2013 9:52am Dec 1, 2013 9:52am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} That's my point. It's a guarantee to sell lower than you bought. Just because you chose to sell at a different price doesn't make the stop less of a mathematical guarantee to buy high and sell low.

If you have the ability to sell at a profit, then how is a SL a guarantee to sell lower ??

You don't understand SL's do you ? at all!!

Your completely mad and you'll go around in the same circle, without ever listening to anyone else EVER and you struggle with even basic logic.


Time for me to give up on you, your a hopeless cause!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,209
  • Dec 1, 2013 9:57am Dec 1, 2013 9:57am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} You should apply for a job at ff if you like merging threads that much. Posts from different threads are done according to different context. This thread is about stop losses and the resulting buying high and selling low.


he-he, keep on with that

The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #1,210
  • Dec 1, 2013 10:01am Dec 1, 2013 10:01am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} That's my point. It's a guarantee to sell lower than you bought. Just because you chose to sell at a different price doesn't make the stop less of a mathematical guarantee to buy high and sell low.
Considering that I cannot win 100% of the time, the question is, what happens when a trade turns out to be a loser? Then my stop becomes a guarantee that I will not sell lower, using your own logic.
  • #1,211
  • Dec 1, 2013 10:08am Dec 1, 2013 10:08am
Quoting Turveyd
Time for me to give up on you, your a hopeless cause!!
It's wise to abandon a lost argument. I hope in the process you have learnt what a stoploss is, and why persistently engaging in a mathematically losing game is bad for you.
  • #1,212
  • Dec 1, 2013 10:16am Dec 1, 2013 10:16am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} It's wise to abandon a lost argument. I hope in the process you have learnt what a stoploss is, and why persistently engaging in a mathematically losing game is bad for you.

LOL I've Lost LOL you really haven't got a clue have you.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,213
  • Dec 1, 2013 10:19am Dec 1, 2013 10:19am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} A Lie yet again.... I've been profitable or break even trader for many years I've been moderately profitable for approx the last 6weeks, since devising a new method, still trying to improve on method / my application of Live trading to get to HUGELY Profitable, anything less than that, really isn't worth my time.
You've been saying this exact same thing for years now. If you spent more time thinking and learning and less time repeating yourself and convincing nobody you might actually get somewhere for once. This story is tired. Retire it.

2 weeks from now: "Ah haven't get taim foh da traden, lol, me missus gots to get her hair dun. Next week i be profabull".
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #1,214
  • Dec 1, 2013 10:20am Dec 1, 2013 10:20am
Quoting Jexter
{quote} Considering that I cannot win 100% of the time, the question is, what happens when a trade turns out to be a loser? Then my stop becomes a guarantee that I will not sell lower, using your own logic.
I have pointed out numerous times previously that stops are but one of several equally valid options to deal with that situation. The argument has been that stops are the only option because the loss is predicted to run for many years, indefinitely, or any other similarly enduring lengths.

I have never stated people can't use stops. But I have consistently pointed out to people the mathematical fallacy of stops. When you put yourself in a position where you guarantee yourself a negative edge, it shouldn't be surprising that you will end up losing.
  • #1,215
  • Dec 1, 2013 10:23am Dec 1, 2013 10:23am
Quoting nubcake
{quote} You've been saying this exact same thing for years now. If you spent more time thinking and learning and less time repeating yourself and convincing nobody you might actually get somewhere for once. This story is tired. Retire it. 2 weeks from now: "Ah haven't get taim foh da traden, lol, me missus gots to get her hair dun. Next week i be profabull".

I'm getting somewhere, don't worry, just in the nick of time aswell Mr Troll!!


Maybe if you stopped Trolling, the same for you ??
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,216
  • Dec 1, 2013 10:24am Dec 1, 2013 10:24am
Quoting nubcake
{quote} You've been saying this exact same thing for years now. If you spent more time thinking and learning and less time repeating yourself and convincing nobody you might actually get somewhere for once. This story is tired. Retire it. 2 weeks from now: "Ah haven't get taim foh da traden, lol, me missus gots to get her hair dun. Next week i be profabull".
He has changed now. From now on, he is going to make 200% account growth a week. I am very hopeful for him now that he gained my insights on stops.
  • #1,217
  • Dec 1, 2013 10:28am Dec 1, 2013 10:28am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
I have no idea what kind of forex I am trading.
It's remarkable that anyone would debate someone who makes statements like this.

If you're a retail trader, your stake in the market is directly related to acceptable loss. If you set $1,000 as an acceptable loss on a 50K account, you can go in for 10 lots (or about $100 a pip) if your hard stop is 10 pips. The wider you set your stop, the lower you need to set your stake. A Martingale trader needs to set their stake at hardship levels. Someone grinding $1 a pip would need a realized gain of 1000 pips for the same profit on the same account size that can be achieved at less risk in a few minutes trading the ladder. Skill is the critical component. Without skill random walk comes into play. The longer you need to sit in the water, the more you resemble a sitting duck because the variables stack against you, at least in trading.

If you're investing then no stop is necessary. You can go down to the bank and exchange your money, and you'll never get a margin call.

This isn't a difficult concept to understand.

Investors can achieve 5% a year on relatively low risk. A fidelity outperforms most retail traders. So, as a retail trader you need a real edge, and that edge isn't achieved by stretching the boundaries of loss towards infinity.

Put your stop where the trade stops making sense. That's all there is to it. Drawing down large on a bet is for chumps. Investors project on fundamentals and don't care about timing, but timing is critical for leveraged retail trading. If your timing sucks, don't trade. Investment is a better bet. If you want to retail trade, than get your shit together on timing.

Mixing up two completely separate disciplines is a recipe for disaster.
  • #1,218
  • Dec 1, 2013 10:34am Dec 1, 2013 10:34am
Quoting Luther
{quote} It's remarkable that anyone would debate someone who makes statements like this. If you're a retail trader, your stake in the market is directly related to acceptable loss. If you set $1,000 as an acceptable loss on a 50K account, you can go in for 10 lots (or about $100 a pip) if your hard stop is 10 pips. The wider you set your stop, the lower you need to set your stake. A Martingale trader needs to set their stake at hardship levels. Someone grinding $1 a pip would need a realized gain of 1000 pips for the same profit on the same account...
Well said!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,219
  • Dec 1, 2013 10:39am Dec 1, 2013 10:39am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} I'm getting somewhere, don't worry, just in the nick of time aswell Mr Troll!! Maybe if you stopped Trolling, the same for you ??
It makes me tired just thinking about the level of mental gymnastics you must be performing to convince yourself that you are profitable, and that I'm just a troll. Truly tiring, and I'm already tired from deciphering what you pass-off as words and sentences.

Why is this thread still alive? Joe has you all transfixed with his no-stops. There is no spoon.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #1,220
  • Dec 1, 2013 10:40am Dec 1, 2013 10:40am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} He has changed now. From now on, he is going to make 200% account growth a week. I am very hopeful for him now that he gained my insights on stops.
That sounds pretty arrogant
Do you really believe that anybody except a couple of desperately needy newish newbies will even think of such a bullshitty crap complimented with your every moment escalating medical condition like of something more than a subject to laugh at?
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
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