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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #1,181
  • Nov 30, 2013 12:37pm Nov 30, 2013 12:37pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I have a better idea for you. Why not stop gambling and go find work ? While you are freshly out of work, it would be easier to find new work. Once you are out in the cold for 6 months, things are going to be difficult. To turn trading into a wage earner takes a great deal of capital, serious diversification, and a lot of time. Unfortunately your account is missing at least 3 trailing 0's, and your awareness of the market after at least 2 years of trying is at best minimal. All odds are against you. Your $500 won't last more than a week...

Why cause I've been programming for 26 years was it time to get outta that crap mainly, with more time I should be able to turn $500 into a wage before the cash runs out ( clients pay 3 months down the line so got 4 - 5 months of cash coming in )

And sorry, but the opinion of a mad man, is worth absolutely nothing to me, I am not the gambler you are, I've studied and worked on real methods with real edges for years when I get time for when work finally runs out.

Accounts already lasted way more than a week at $2 per pip, about a year and it's going up nicely so proved that wrong yet again!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,182
  • Nov 30, 2013 12:56pm Nov 30, 2013 12:56pm
Quoting Turveyd
Accounts already lasted way more than a week at $2 per pip, about a year and it's going up nicely so proved that wrong yet again!!
After trading $2 a pip for a year and you still have only $500 in account. Things just don't add up. What makes you think suddenly you are going to turn your $500 into 20k, because you had 4 winners on Friday ?
  • #1,183
  • Nov 30, 2013 1:35pm Nov 30, 2013 1:35pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} After trading $2 a pip for a year and you still have only $500 in account. Things just don't add up. What makes you think suddenly you are going to turn your $500 into 20k, because you had 4 winners on Friday ?
Cause I nearly have a very profitable method perfected almost, but I lack time, if main client loses contract then I can devote 3 to 4 days a week to trading.

I started at 400 dropped to 200 and back upto 500.

I can add another 500 then full time ish, 6 months to 20k should be fairly easy.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,184
  • Nov 30, 2013 6:19pm Nov 30, 2013 6:19pm
Quoting Nefser
@Mikkk01 I believe it's you that's actually not getting what BJoe is saying there
In fact BJ is not saying anything.....at all.....other than " Buy low sell high". Oh he's making a lot of noise and countless posts, but all he has actually said are those 4 words.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #1,185
  • Nov 30, 2013 6:39pm Nov 30, 2013 6:39pm
Quoting realjumper
{quote} In fact BJ is not saying anything.....at all.....other than " Buy low sell high". Oh he's making a lot of noise and countless posts, but all he has actually said are those 4 words.
And by the power of grey skull, I mean random entries and no SL every trade will eventually get into a profitable situation.

He's also said, you need to trade REALLY REALLY small and if you plan to make more than 7% per year then your gambling.


So if you want to earn just a bit more than a high interest bank account for 100's of hours of trading time and considerable risk, then BJ is your man, send him a PM and Paypal over some cash and he'll tell you exactly this errmmmm yeah!!


Alternatively wait a while and he'll create a new ID and a new plan to be rich then give that ID money instead, hey maybe both, fall for the same scammer twice.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,186
  • Nov 30, 2013 6:56pm Nov 30, 2013 6:56pm
Quoting Mikkk01
I just finished reading this hilarious thread which I really enjoyed So that's how this comedy began: {quote} Why, the hell, did you stop using SL if you still lose? And then BegginerJoe's homonym posted something great, check it out: {quote} Fair enough! But before BegginnerJoe it wasn't that funny, nobody was putting here such a load of crazy crap. But when he started, the stupidity began to go up exponentially. {quote} By the time I reached that post I had that exact thought in my head. Seems to me banks somehow...
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This is one of the best posts I've ever read on FF -- well done!
  • #1,187
  • Dec 1, 2013 4:26am Dec 1, 2013 4:26am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} [/url] This is one of the best posts I've ever read on FF -- well done!
Well, thank you,
but it would never be that good hadn't that clown given me such a laughable material which is even more comic considering he's serious
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #1,188
  • Dec 1, 2013 6:12am Dec 1, 2013 6:12am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} In fact BJ is not saying anything.....at all.....other than " Buy low sell high".
No, what I actually said was: don't buy high sell low. Because this was what was guaranteed by stops. But what I said was irrelevant, since you were only here to argue about anything or nothing.
  • #1,189
  • Dec 1, 2013 6:28am Dec 1, 2013 6:28am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} No, what I actually said was: don't buy high sell low. Because this was what was guaranteed by stops. But what I said was irrelevant, since you were only here to argue about anything or nothing.

If a SL is guaranteed to fill, how come 20% of my trades hit the SL ? ( i close some trades at a loss manually )

I'm a 20-30 SL kinda guy to.


See you can't trade with stops, therefore you believe it's impossible and nobody can, right ?

Ever consider your just not a very good trader? Isn't that more likely?
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,190
  • Dec 1, 2013 6:30am Dec 1, 2013 6:30am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} No, what I actually said was: don't buy high sell low. Because this was what was guaranteed by stops. But what I said was irrelevant, since you were only here to argue about anything or nothing.
Hey, man, you seem to have sclerosis. I won't even look for quotes in this thread I just read it there's plenty - you said that even in other ones.

Quoting JR97
I'm very curious about the nature of how trader's approach their trading business. If you could, take a minute to think about and answer these three questions: 1) What's the most important activity in your trading business? 2) Do you have any pain associated with that activity and why? (ie pain in the ass, emotional/mental pain, time consuming, etc.) 3) What tools are associated with your most important activity and what about them do you wish were better? If answered honestly, I'm 100% sure that there will be a lot to learn from each other's answers....

Quoting BeginnerJoe
1. Buy low sell high. Nothing beats the importance of this.

My condolences, buddy...
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #1,191
  • Dec 1, 2013 6:49am Dec 1, 2013 6:49am
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} Hey, man, you seem to have sclerosis. I won't even look for quotes in this thread I just read it there's plenty - you said that even in other ones. {quote} {quote} My condolences, buddy...
You should apply for a job at ff if you like merging threads that much. Posts from different threads are done according to different context. This thread is about stop losses and the resulting buying high and selling low.
  • #1,192
  • Dec 1, 2013 6:52am Dec 1, 2013 6:52am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} If a SL is guaranteed to fill, how come 20% of my trades hit the SL ? ( i close some trades at a loss manually ) I'm a 20-30 SL kinda guy to. See you can't trade with stops, therefore you believe it's impossible and nobody can, right ? Ever consider your just not a very good trader? Isn't that more likely?
I don't remember saying stops were guaranteed to fill. I do remember saying stops were guarantees given to banks to buy high and sell low to them. Given the advantageous nature of these guarantees, there is little or no reason for the banks to not exercise them. Although that is not to say they always will.

I think reading comprehension is a problem for people here. Hands up anyone who dropped out before high school, so that I can get some stats on what I am dealing with.
  • #1,193
  • Dec 1, 2013 7:36am Dec 1, 2013 7:36am
Good day all!

If you can bear SWAP at it's best then only go for without stop-loss friend.

Though I am so much offensive but know few successful traders those who don't put stop loss rather can judge the outcome mostly on their favor and it's working good for them!

There is nothing like success unless you get trapped!
  • #1,194
  • Dec 1, 2013 7:44am Dec 1, 2013 7:44am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} No, what I actually said was: don't buy high sell low. Because this was what was guaranteed by stops. But what I said was irrelevant, since you were only here to argue about anything or nothing.
You said it right there, ownly a few posts up doh!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,195
  • Dec 1, 2013 7:49am Dec 1, 2013 7:49am
BJ's balancing offsets are fancy tools to cut loss without closing losing position.

He does not use stop loss to close the position. He may use stop order to open a hedge trade to stop further bleeding.

At support, he will take profit on the hedging trade and probably average down on the original trade expecting at least average of those two to close at profit on bounce.

If averaged trade is still losing, he will do another hedge - already on those 2 trades. Accumulation of losing trades may lead to increase in unrealized loss beyond where BJ wishes to manage these with offsets. He said that in some cases he realized losses.

If one of the two got profitable he may close one profitable before the averaged trade got into profit then hedging only one trade again. After couple or so trades this style the loss on the original trade may be recovered while it is still negative. He may close it at loss, but in his mind it will not be a loss, as extra trades in the same direction offset it.

The process requires quite a bit of management, but apparently it is more comfortable way for him to trade rather than realizing a loss and reversing. Brings to mind adjustments which option traders do. This is probably the core of his secret methodology.
  • #1,196
  • Dec 1, 2013 7:50am Dec 1, 2013 7:50am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I don't remember saying stops were guaranteed to fill. I do remember saying stops were guarantees given to banks to buy high and sell low to them. Given the advantageous nature of these guarantees, there is little or no reason for the banks to not exercise them. Although that is not to say they always will. I think reading comprehension is a problem for people here. Hands up anyone who dropped out before high school, so that I can get some stats on what I am dealing with.

Basic logic is a problem you have!

Unless your trading through a ECN ( even then ?? ) Stops aren't posted or visible to anyone, there a level on your brokers server, which when hits fires a market order to exit the position, so not visible.

Ofcourse they now where SL's will be placed and if they can manipulate a little spike down to hit a bunch of them, then they will do, your trading like 99% of retail and falling for the traps, which is why you lose then why you assume anyone who uses SL's is stupid and will lose like you lose.

Lies think everyone else is as liar.
Thief's think everyone else is a thief.
Idiots think everyone else in an idiot.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,197
  • Dec 1, 2013 7:54am Dec 1, 2013 7:54am
Quoting grin
BJ's balancing offsets are fancy tools to cut loss without closing losing position. He does not use stop loss to close the position. He may use stop order to open a hedge trade to stop further bleeding. At support, he will take profit on the hedging trade and probably average down on the original trade expecting at least average of those two to close at profit on bounce. If averaged trade is still losing, he will do another hedge - already on those 2 trades. Accumulation of losing trades may lead to increase in unrealized loss beyond where BJ wishes...

It's possibly his method, not that he'll ever say without handing over your paypal account details anyway.

Hedging is just all of the hassle with no actual profit as the 1 cancels out the other, better to of flipped sides that sit there effectively flat what ever happens.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,198
  • Dec 1, 2013 8:10am Dec 1, 2013 8:10am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} You said it right there, ownly a few posts up doh!!
Then let me say it for you once again so that you can quote me a few posts down: Stops guarantee buying high and selling low. It's at the banks' discretion to decide when or if the guarantee is exercised. An exercised guarantee is not the same as an unexercised guarantee. My suggestions is for people to avoid giving banks unexercised guarantees, because the banks would then have an easy way to identify where assured profits are.
  • #1,199
  • Dec 1, 2013 8:13am Dec 1, 2013 8:13am
Quoting Turveyd
Lies think everyone else is as liar. Thief's think everyone else is a thief. Idiots think everyone else in an idiot.
And losers think everyone else is a loser. Since you have already stated you are not profitable, we know where you stand.
  • #1,200
  • Dec 1, 2013 8:31am Dec 1, 2013 8:31am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Then let me say it for you once again so that you can quote me a few posts down: Stops guarantee buying high and selling low. It's at the banks' discretion to decide when or if the guarantee is exercised. An exercised guarantee is not the same as an unexercised guarantee. My suggestions is for people to avoid giving banks unexercised guarantees, because the banks would then have an easy way to identify where assured profits are.

Interesting bit of double talk there, so it's a guarantee with a conspiracy theory the banks are out to get you exception, interesting!!

It's not even remotely close to how the markets work, the banks aren't sitting there going where are the stops, ohhhh we'll hit those, for the most part the market is merely doing what the market does, the effect of millions of people all over the world pushing and pulling on it.

Banks don't even directly make profits from a retail trader taking a loss, most retail brokers accept your going to lose money over all and don't even send your trades to the market, they just pretend they do and keep the entire loss for themselves, it's the smart side to be on.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
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