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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #1,161
  • Nov 30, 2013 7:55am Nov 30, 2013 7:55am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Your are the only one in the world who can achieve 80% win rate and 200% account growth a month while still too busy doing something else. You are beyond special, and you should get on it straight away instead of here arguing. I hope not everyone in this thread is like you. Otherwise the federal reserve won't be able to print money fast enough to cover your winnings. There will be nothing left for anyone else.

Markets shut dude, only fight trolls and scammers at the weekend, what time I have spare in the week goes to trading.

200% is easy on a $500 account, dont worry it will reduce as the account grows so won't own the world, get the account to 20k then 20%-30% per month which I will withdraw and spend most likely.


$2 per pip is to damn scarey for me at the moment lol
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,162
  • Nov 30, 2013 8:19am Nov 30, 2013 8:19am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Markets shut dude, only fight trolls and scammers at the weekend, what time I have spare in the week goes to trading. 200% is easy on a $500 account, dont worry it will reduce as the account grows so won't own the world, get the account to 20k then 20%-30% per month which I will withdraw and spend most likely. $2 per pip is to damn scarey for me at the moment lol
I have a better idea for you. Why not stop gambling and go find work ? While you are freshly out of work, it would be easier to find new work. Once you are out in the cold for 6 months, things are going to be difficult. To turn trading into a wage earner takes a great deal of capital, serious diversification, and a lot of time. Unfortunately your account is missing at least 3 trailing 0's, and your awareness of the market after at least 2 years of trying is at best minimal. All odds are against you. Your $500 won't last more than a week if you gamble $2 a pip. It won't matter what size stop you use.
  • #1,163
  • Nov 30, 2013 8:29am Nov 30, 2013 8:29am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I guessed you would benefit from that link. Anyone learns to trade this way will ultimately be a success.
The key ingredient in that is compartmentalization of risk. This is what allowed him to go big, paradoxically by going small. I think most strategies can benefit from this approach. Although I think this approach involves countless break-even stop knock outs. So it will suit someone with great energy and great patience. I am not patient, but I think the benefit is worth it. I will make this more interesting by maintaining a large portfolio. Then something will always be happening somewhere.
  • #1,164
  • Nov 30, 2013 8:30am Nov 30, 2013 8:30am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} That programmer must be an idiot. Pass this message to him if you can. Tell him to write program for bank using this simple formula: buy low, sell high. It will defeat all humans and software, and it wouldn't matter if they use 50 SMA or S/R, R/R, or any Blah/Blah. Also tell him other banks are already using this formula. So his bank is falling behind on the tech.



Inserted Code
if (PRICE_CLOSE=Low) return (buy);
if (PRICE_CLOSE=High) return (sell);

It's so simple, why didn't I think of this before?


Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #1,165
  • Nov 30, 2013 8:34am Nov 30, 2013 8:34am
Quoting Magix
It's so simple, why didn't I think of this before?
I think it's because you are not in my league.
  • #1,166
  • Nov 30, 2013 8:39am Nov 30, 2013 8:39am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I think it's because you are not in my league.
More like, not from the same Ward!

Buying Low and Selling high are perspectives. You cannot simple tell software to do this without a reference point.

Moron!
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #1,167
  • Nov 30, 2013 8:45am Nov 30, 2013 8:45am
Quoting Magix
{quote} More like, not from the same Ward! Buying Low and Selling high are perspectives. You cannot simple tell software to do this without a reference point. Moron!
That's due to your weak coding skills. The correct coding is thus:

if noob_opening_trade then

Accept trade;


if noob_closing_trade AND ( noob_buy_price > noob_sell_price ) then

Accept trade;

Else

Move price against noob;

  • #1,168
  • Nov 30, 2013 8:50am Nov 30, 2013 8:50am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} That's due to your weak coding skills. The correct coding is thus: if noob_opening_trade then Accept trade; if noob_closing_trade AND ( noob_buy_price > noob_sell_price ) then Accept trade;Else Move price against noob;


Now that's the best thing you have probably posted at FF.

Buwahahahahahah!!!

Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #1,169
  • Nov 30, 2013 9:00am Nov 30, 2013 9:00am
Attached Images
  • #1,170
  • Nov 30, 2013 9:10am Nov 30, 2013 9:10am
Quoting GDR3k
{image} {image}
I'd add more...but I haven't used a stop loss in years.

Not that I think they are a bad thing, I just trade in a time frame and range where they are not required.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #1,171
  • Nov 30, 2013 9:30am Nov 30, 2013 9:30am
Quoting Magix
{quote} I'd add more...but I haven't used a stop loss in years. Not that I think they are a bad thing, I just trade in a time frame and range where they are not required.
There is no right or wrong way to trade the markets, whatever works for you is all that matters. For the way I trade, well positioned stops are essential as I scalp mostly. Again, that is what works for me.
  • #1,172
  • Nov 30, 2013 9:55am Nov 30, 2013 9:55am
Quoting GDR3k
{quote} There is no right or wrong way to trade the markets, whatever works for you is all that matters. For the way I trade, well positioned stops are essential as I scalp mostly. Again, that is what works for me.
Care to share with us how to well position the stops ? I have in my time tried random stops. They were no more effective against the bank algo than any other kind of stops. The only way I can see stops working is to be persistent in replacing knock-out trades and hope events will eventually take the bank's focus on the stops to elsewhere.
  • #1,173
  • Nov 30, 2013 10:08am Nov 30, 2013 10:08am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Care to share with us how to well position the stops ? I have in my time tried random stops. They were no more effective against the bank algo than any other kind of stops. The only way I can see stops working is to be persistent in replacing knock-out trades and hope events will eventually take the bank's focus on the stops to elsewhere.
I base all my entrys off cartain candles, if I have an order waiting that means I expect price to drop or rise to that level and obviously bounce away, so I have my stop above or below the candle in question.
  • #1,174
  • Nov 30, 2013 10:19am Nov 30, 2013 10:19am
I just finished reading this hilarious thread which I really enjoyed

So that's how this comedy began:

Quoting dare123
{quote} Is there anyone making it big without stoploss. If yes, share with us how you are doing it.
Why, the hell, did you stop using SL if you still lose?

And then BegginerJoe's homonym posted something great, check it out:
Quoting Beginer3
I don't use stop loss. I've used it 3 times and lost all 3 (it was 25-50 pips wide). Now I trade without it
Fair enough!


But before BegginnerJoe it wasn't that funny, nobody was putting here such a load of crazy crap. But when he started, the stupidity began to go up exponentially.

Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} You get more ludicrous with each post. You were planted here as a joke... right??? At any rate..... you sure are funny.
By the time I reached that post I had that exact thought in my head.

Seems to me banks somehow got to know your secret strategy by planting a spy here (maybe that's RJ, insidious stop-lover, so obscenely using side accounts to track you) but don't worry

Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} Believe it.... or don't. Mr. Snowden is listening.
He'll take care of it.


Now the funny part, here we go:

Quoting jmn5611
{quote} BeginnerJoe is not going to give away the golden goose, and he shouldn't either.
First I thought that was the joke, actually. But turned out - no...

Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Indeed I have. I have the holy grail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4PmvVFe2TY">
Inserted Video


Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} So, I spent hours last night devising a new plan. After sleeping on it, I now have it. I will now trade long and short to capture all moves in the market. As my technique is highly cash generative, I will have double the cash generation power than before that will allow me to afford the additional cost of trading long and short. To start, I am now permanently long and short in eur/usd. If this works to my satisfaction, I will roll this out to other pairs. For now, the other pairs will be traded as they were. Naturally, no stops will be involved....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmXHvGZiSY">
Inserted Video


Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} No my study is like a pile of gold to me. How you see it is not relevant.

Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} My study was based on my forum use over the years. I have yet come across a single one who was convincingly profitable.
Heh...

Now a very sad part actally:
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} The evidence is showing Samer's account has not been destroyed because of lack of stops. He's doing something special that you will eventually learn to do if you survive long enough.
Point is you definitely won't


Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} The only fraud I can see is your claims to be able to predict losses will continue indefinitely. You have no such ability.
One doesn't have to be a medium to conclude that yours will.


Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I don't have multi-year losses. But others claim I would have if I don't use SL. I do have the capacity to carry a loss for years.
You really don't need that long - you'll blow up a lot faster. Anyway have you ever thought that you can actually grab those pips instead of enhancing "the capacity to carry a loss for years"


Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I don't read books.
I'd be amazed if you said you did. You made me laugh really good so friendly advice (question to think of): maybe you should?
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #1,175
  • Nov 30, 2013 10:20am Nov 30, 2013 10:20am
Quoting GDR3k
{quote} I base all my entrys off cartain candles, if I have an order waiting that means I expect price to drop or rise to that level and obviously bounce away, so I have my stop above or below the candle in question.
Yes I see. Trading short term gives you an advantage. Generally, I find, the price will drift towards the stops when there's no particular focus in the market. I imagine you would no longer be in the market when that happens because you would have taken your scalp and all done.
  • #1,176
  • Nov 30, 2013 10:28am Nov 30, 2013 10:28am
Quoting Mikkk01
Anyway have you ever thought that you can actually grab those pips instead of enhancing "the capacity to carry a loss for years"

Yes, I have. I concluded I like capacity better.
  • #1,177
  • Nov 30, 2013 10:31am Nov 30, 2013 10:31am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Yes, I have. I concluded I like capacity better.
Point is, as I have said you won't survive that​ long anyway, really sad you don't get it
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #1,178
  • Nov 30, 2013 11:13am Nov 30, 2013 11:13am
@Mikkk01
I believe it's you that's actually not getting what BJoe is saying there. Now, I can't support everything that BJoe's said, but in this case, I think I get it.

If a trade he's had to 'lock up' with a hedge (using 20% of equity?) ends up outside of the current market range, he can allow the market to move away by a hundreds of pips and not worry about it. Then lets say the market moves around and by some point in the next year or so, the market moves back up within range of that trade again. By this time, he's probably increased his overall capital, so perhaps the equity used by the trade is now only about 10%. He is quite able, financially, to absorb the loss by taking the trade off in one piece - but lets just say he's being stubborn about it (as he's waited this long, what's a few more weeks or months).

Finally, as few weeks/days go by, the market moves up to where he can remove some or all of the hedge parts of the trade. Then, later, the trend continues and eventually his original trade can be removed - at a profit.

Low and behold, the margin and a profit are credited to the account and he continues on his merry way, with a nice thought of saying 'told you so' to all his detractors.

Now, perhaps this delay seems extreme or just plain ridiculous. But from the nearly countless comments of people posting in this forum (about having SL's taken out by spikes, drawdown on accounts, getting too many losing trades (obviously due to SL's), etc.), I really don't see the issue with a concept that allows you to manage your trading and significantly reduce the loss of capital.

If I have to realise the loss of one, fully hedged trade out of about 20 or 30 trades, what's the problem?

As people have said, if the way you trade works, then go ahead and do that. So why does the fact that some of us do trade successfully without SL's* attract such negative feedback?

*(Once again, this is specifically SL's used to cover the downside when setting new trades - SL's are/can be used for taking profit)
  • #1,179
  • Nov 30, 2013 11:22am Nov 30, 2013 11:22am
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} Point is, as I have said you won't survive that​ long anyway, really sad you don't get it
I said to the others as I say to you. You have no ability to make this prediction, especially that you have no idea what my capacity is.
  • #1,180
  • Nov 30, 2013 12:15pm Nov 30, 2013 12:15pm

Quoting Nefser
@Mikkk01 I believe it's you that's actually not getting what BJoe is saying there. Now, I can't support everything that BJoe's said, but in this case, I think I get it. If a trade he's had to 'lock up' with a hedge (using 20% of equity?) ends up outside of the current market range, he can allow the market to move away by a hundreds of pips and not worry about it. Then lets say the market moves around and by some point in the next year or so, the market moves back up within range of that trade again. By this time, he's probably increased his overall...

Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I said to the others as I say to you. You have no ability to make this prediction, especially that you have no idea what my capacity is.

Buddies, you didn't get it, did you?

What you write doesn't make any, ANY sense - you ask why - you've been answered - I bother reading the thread before posting (sounds crazy, ha?) and won't write obvious stuff again.

I'm not gonna argue with you [crazy guys], no-no you won't get it

I just enjoyed reading this nonsense cause one… muppet seems to be the best word, thanks RJ for it, [BeginnerJoe] is really funny.

You've been given all the info needed, really put in the mouth to get your ungrateful ass "out of shit", so to speak still, you ain't gonna swallow. It’s absolutely YOUR RIGHT -
We become what we believe

By the way, your capacity is, undoubtedly, hell of a something – couldn’t ignore it. Banks wouldn't hold such a conspiracy for the sake of it.

The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
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