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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #1,041
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:21pm Nov 24, 2013 3:21pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} You know what is a even greater loser system? A system that guarantees to sell at LOWEST and buy at HIGHEST when the trader gets margin-called because he refused to take those losses when they were small.
Ok, I take your word for it. Who is using this system then ?
  • #1,042
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:22pm Nov 24, 2013 3:22pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Pretty sure that was you, busy so not going back to check. We are trying to help you dude!! Over all, are you in profit or loss ?? ( don't bother answering, just ask yourself that question )
Actually no I'm not trying to help him. I actually believe he can think for himself and knows what he is doing, but I feel that it's unjustified to criticise people who use SLs (and to encourage everyone to trade without stops) because there can be good reasons for doing so and he does not want to recognise those reasons.
Build good relationships with others.
  • #1,043
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:23pm Nov 24, 2013 3:23pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Pretty sure that was you, busy so not going back to check. We are trying to help you dude!! Over all, are you in profit or loss ?? ( don't bother answering, just ask yourself that question )
No, I don't post trades. Occasionally I post the direction I am interested. You are mixing me up with someone else.
  • #1,044
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:25pm Nov 24, 2013 3:25pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} Actually no I'm not trying to help him. I actually believe he can think for himself and knows what he is doing, but I feel that it's unjustified to criticise people who use SLs (and to encourage everyone to trade without stops) because there can be good reasons for doing so and he does not want to recognise those reasons.
You are failing to recognize buying high and selling low is bad for you.
  • #1,045
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:27pm Nov 24, 2013 3:27pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} You are failing to recognize buying high and selling low is bad for you.
Ok please define high and low for me.
Build good relationships with others.
  • #1,046
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:29pm Nov 24, 2013 3:29pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} If you can PREDICT the market *WOW we have a fortune teller here* then why are you even here posting on FFactory? Shouldn't you be counting your billions somewhere on an island.
I am not the only one to be able to predict. You too predicted the market behaviour earlier when you said banks fill orders (buy orders, sell, orders, stop orders, etc).
  • #1,047
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:30pm Nov 24, 2013 3:30pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} Ok please define high and low for me.
Where you buy 10 stop 5:

High = 10
Low = 5
  • #1,048
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:30pm Nov 24, 2013 3:30pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I don't see any point in convincing you. You can offer no value in return.
You can't convince me with nothing, and that's all you've got. Since we have been conversing you have made 2 calls....both of which IMMEDIATELY went against you. You have offered no charts, no system, no common sense....nothing!!!

Why is that?

Because you have nothing.......period!!!

When you open a live account and trade for real, you'll look back on what everyone has been telling you and realise that you were/are just a muppet!!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #1,049
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:30pm Nov 24, 2013 3:30pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I am not the only one to be able to predict. You too predicted the market behaviour earlier when you said bank fill orders (buy orders, sell, orders, stop orders, etc).
Ok, but at what point do you say your 'prediction/hypothesis' is wrong? and if it is indeed wrong, then why not exit the market? and if you were going to exit the market when that point is reached, what's wrong with a trader setting a stop to do that job for him?
Build good relationships with others.
  • #1,050
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:31pm Nov 24, 2013 3:31pm
Sorry might have been SAMER1970 who was posting the 1000's of trades maybe with a EA of sorts ??


I can't see BJ posting any proof or anything on how he actually trades except he doesn't use SL's.


BJ tell us, how you trade, why you take a trade, why you take a profit!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,051
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:32pm Nov 24, 2013 3:32pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Where you buy 10 stop 5: High = 10 Low = 5
Ok, let's say you buy at 10, and price drops to 5.

So at P = 5, I can say 5 is high and 1 is low right? Shouldn't I be selling high here (i.e. closing my position AKA exiting the market with a stop loss)???

Or should buy again because P = 5 is LOW relative to 10???

And then only to see it drop to 1 and then buy again because 1 is low relative to 5???
Build good relationships with others.
  • #1,052
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:34pm Nov 24, 2013 3:34pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} Ok, but at what point do you say your 'prediction/hypothesis' is wrong? and if it is indeed wrong, then why not exit the market? and if you were going to exit the market when that point is reached, what's wrong with a trader setting a stop to do that job for him?

To be fair, SL's are a bit crazy in ways, your better off watching and exiting when the time comes manually than using some number, which was relevant at the time but isn't any more, yes sometimes you'll hold for a bigger loss, others you'd take a smaller loss, both of which might turn on you straight after ofcourse, but I for 1 haven't got the time to do that or the balls.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,053
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:36pm Nov 24, 2013 3:36pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} To be fair, SL's are a bit crazy in ways, your better off watching and exiting when the time comes manually than using some number, which was relevant at the time but isn't any more, yes sometimes you'll hold for a bigger loss, others you'd take a smaller loss, both of which might turn on you straight after ofcourse, but I for 1 haven't got the time to do that or the balls.
I am just playing the devil's advocate here. In fact I trade with very large stops (extreme risk stops) or no stops (does not equal NO EXIT strategy) and just manually exit my trades.

But I can easily see someone setting stops because he cannot be at the screen, or if his systems has predefined parameters and he can still be profitable.
Build good relationships with others.
  • #1,054
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:36pm Nov 24, 2013 3:36pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} Ok, but at what point do you say your 'prediction/hypothesis' is wrong? and if it is indeed wrong, then why not exit the market? and if you were going to exit the market when that point is reached, what's wrong with a trader setting a stop to do that job for him?
Stop orders more or less always get filled by the banks as you already know that. This would suggest all your trades are more or less buying higher than you would sell.

I would abandon a trade when the prospect of a profit is no longer there.
  • #1,055
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:39pm Nov 24, 2013 3:39pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} I am just playing the devil's advocate here. In fact I trade with very large stops (extreme risk stops) or no stops (does not equal NO EXIT strategy) and just manually exit my trades. But I can easily see someone setting stops because he cannot be at the screen, or if his systems has predefined parameters and he can still be profitable.

That is the best way, SL hits from Spikes which reverse are a real PAIN!!!


Wish I could do that, took me years to stop moving my SL's and in doing so destroy my account LOL so don't think I should go back to no SL's
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,056
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:40pm Nov 24, 2013 3:40pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} Ok, let's say you buy at 10, and price drops to 5. So at P = 5, I can say 5 is high and 1 is low right? Shouldn't I be selling high here (i.e. closing my position AKA exiting the market with a stop loss)??? Or should buy again because P = 5 is LOW relative to 10??? And then only to see it drop to 1 and then buy again because 1 is low relative to 5???
When you bought high at 10, selling at 5 is selling low, and selling at 1 is still selling low. I am shocked you need this to be explained to you. Money is just not safe in your hands. Do you have a guardian you can give you money to for safe keeping ?
  • #1,057
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:42pm Nov 24, 2013 3:42pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Stop orders more or less always get filled by the banks as you already know that. This would suggest all your trades are more or less buying higher than you would sell. I would abandon a trade when the prospect of a profit is no longer there.
Ok cheers. I would agree with that.

If no one used stops orders, market will go crazy as intra-day you will see spikes everywhere because banks have trouble sourcing for liquidity to start a large move (fill a large order).
Build good relationships with others.
  • #1,058
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:42pm Nov 24, 2013 3:42pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Stop orders more or less always get filled by the banks as you already know that. This would suggest all your trades are more or less buying higher than you would sell. I would abandon a trade when the prospect of a profit is no longer there.

That all depends on how good a trader you are, in most cases as 99% of people on here aren't profitable then yes ofcourse.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,059
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:43pm Nov 24, 2013 3:43pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} When you bought high at 10, selling at 5 is selling low, and selling at 1 is still selling low. I am shocked you need this to be explained to you. Money is just not safe in your hands. Do you have a guardian you can give you money to for safe keeping ?
But if you weigh that prices are more likely to go to 1 than go back to 10, shouldn't you sell at 5 since it's higher than 1? (in other words, like you said, profit potential is no longer there)
Build good relationships with others.
  • #1,060
  • Nov 24, 2013 3:44pm Nov 24, 2013 3:44pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} Ok cheers. I would agree with that. If no one used stops orders, market will go crazy as intra-day you will see spikes everywhere because banks have trouble sourcing for liquidity.
But 99.9% of the people use stops. We have a big SL fan here realjumper who will be happy to give you all the liquidity you need.
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