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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #941
  • Nov 22, 2013 8:20pm Nov 22, 2013 8:20pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
Both 2+2 and realjumper claim to have ways to win and they are willing to share. Why don't you follow them and see if you win consistently ?
I have made no such "claim". I have presented a system that works for me, and showed many, many 'live' trades. What have you shown?....

You however, claim to be able to counter the market. Show us an example or two. So far all you have shown is how to go underwater right from the start.

So please.....lets see something other than your evasive and childish yappin....show us where we have all ( remember 99.9%) gone wrong, and we are all headed for the poor house. Please show us how YOU....alone.....can counter the market.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #942
  • Nov 22, 2013 8:29pm Nov 22, 2013 8:29pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
{quote} So much for being a businessman. Seems to me like you are one of those casino gamblers you always love to mention. {quote} I find it hilarious that jmn5611 was just mentioning how your strategy is so wonderful and how you shouldn't give up "the golden goose" for nothing. Only for you to write this. Hilarious. It's especially funny since you two are the same person. {quote} (yawn) Nothing new. This has been tried many times before. There are dozens of threads about it on this website alone. If only it was this easy. Hedging...
Whoaaa there 4ex, accusing posters of being other posters is a bit........paranoid.

Joe does have a great strategy because it is immune to market swings. pipEasy came thru here a couple years back to try to tell the casino players the same thing. He even went so far as to say that the entry method one uses does not matter, and it doesn't. As least the way I trade. A winning trader is much more of a money manager than they are a trader.

Anyway, trade well, and don't let the conspiracy theories get the best of ya!
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #943
  • Nov 22, 2013 8:29pm Nov 22, 2013 8:29pm
What a lot of a sad bullshit poor Joe tries to peddle here.
Ey Mate get a few cans of cheap beer and shoot to some ducks at your paddle :-) This will get you good :-)
Then come back on Monday and tell us another if your revelations - poor sod.
If you want to be profitable you need to quit drugs/alcohol whatever you are using and trade when you sober up. (not mentioning growing up) this should come a bit later.
Take this advice from an old fart - costs you nothing as oppose your medical bills one day can
  • #944
  • Nov 22, 2013 8:33pm Nov 22, 2013 8:33pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} So what exactly is it that you know? That you can let losses run? Of course you can. From what I've gathered, you believe that you can take tiny profits and let large losses accumulate yet this is not "gambling" First and foremost, any kind of financial endeavor that you undertake is, in some way, a "gamble". Unless your outcome is 100% guaranteed then there's a "gamble". A risk. So get off the "casino" bandwagon. OR, are you saying that you have a method where this is absolutely no "gambling" involved ??
I will help you here.

I believe that BeginnerJoe knows that you can take tiny losses and let winners run. Those tiny positions become quite large after a period of time. So large that they dwarf losses. This has been discussed at the factory before, in great detail in fact.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=245149
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #945
  • Nov 22, 2013 8:43pm Nov 22, 2013 8:43pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} What activities are you engaged in to counter the market? For example, the UJ was moving higher today. What might you do to counter the market's move higher? Maybe start with a clear definition of "counter the market". When you say influence the outcome, do you mean the outcome of the markets move or the outcome of your sell trade as the market moves against you (to follow the example of the UJ today)? Finally, instead of trying to counter the market, have you considered the benefits of trading with the market?
Trading with the market is good. But buying at market top has its risks. You can counter this market by not doing anything or by trading with it. Going against it can also work if the market turns. So it all depends on your starting disposition and things you do with it to make it viable. The things you do are the active measures. So the question is do people have active measures that would increase the chance of their trade being a success ? If they have none then there can be no influence on the outcome of the trade. In that case the banks decide. If these people have some measures, then the outcome of the trade is not completely decided by the banks, therefore the outcome of the trade could be considered to have been influenced.

People who use stops usually leave the decision on the outcome of the trade to the banks. Often that means the banks take the money.

Trading with the market at one moment could be contrary to it the next. Chopping and changing trades could be prohibitively expensive. Given the swinging nature of the market, keeping the trade could be a cheaper alternative.

Are you able to always trade with the market ? If so I am happy to take your word for it. I find it to be notoriously difficult. Hence I need do things to counter the market. Countering the market is not to say going contrary to it, but to make the trade more survivable.
  • #946
  • Nov 22, 2013 8:56pm Nov 22, 2013 8:56pm
Quoting realjumper
{quote} I have made no such "claim". I have presented a system that works for me, and showed many, many 'live' trades. What have you shown?.... You however, claim to be able to counter the market. Show us an example or two. So far all you have shown is how to go underwater right from the start. So please.....lets see something other than your evasive and childish yappin....show us where we have all ( remember 99.9%) gone wrong, and we are all headed for the poor house. Please show us how YOU....alone.....can counter the market.
Can you also make it work for slim ? He's in need of help I think.

Are your live trades done with demo ?

I will show an example if I ever make a thread like yours. Right now I have no such plans.
  • #947
  • Nov 22, 2013 8:57pm Nov 22, 2013 8:57pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} You are not getting it. My saying of being a business is just a metaphor for getting things done differently. Imagine you are running a burger/hotdog stall on the street. Imagine further that the guy who supplies you with the raw burgers/hotdogs is on drugs or something. So each day he sells stuff to you at wildly different prices. How will you make your business a success given this unpredictability ?
Well, Mr. president, I would NOT base my business on a guy who supplies me with burgers/hotdogs at
wildly different prices. If he's "on drugs or something" is not for me to judge.

You're simply not considering the fact that burger chains (read McDonalds, et al) sell burgers every day
of the week/year at fairly stable prices.

Your "saying of being a business is just a metaphor for getting things done differently" is just another
load of BS.

Do successful restaurant chains buy product from a "guy on the street"


Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote}How will you make your business a success given this unpredictability ?
I wouldn't always equate a restaurant/burger stand with forex trading. Though there are similarities, it is
not all the same.

However,,,,,,,,,,,,, successful burger chains (if you would notice) have modeled their business enough to
allow others to participate. It's called a franchise.
Sure, they change a bit from time to time, based on the market, but the basic "method" remains the same.

So.... if you were REALLY a business person you would realize that "unpredictability" should not be a part
of your business activity.

Right??
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #948
  • Nov 22, 2013 9:03pm Nov 22, 2013 9:03pm
Quoting pakiestra
What a lot of a sad bullshit poor Joe tries to peddle here. Ey Mate get a few cans of cheap beer and shoot to some ducks at your paddle :-) This will get you good :-) Then come back on Monday and tell us another if your revelations - poor sod. If you want to be profitable you need to quit drugs/alcohol whatever you are using and trade when you sober up. (not mentioning growing up) this should come a bit later. Take this advice from an old fart - costs you nothing as oppose your medical bills one day can
Shooting ducks ? I am no expert on ducks, but I think they are out of season right now, aren't they ? Maybe it's the cheap beer doing the talking.

I am not peddling anything. I am here chatting about trading and maybe the philosophy of it.
  • #949
  • Nov 22, 2013 9:06pm Nov 22, 2013 9:06pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} Well, Mr. president, I would NOT base my business on a guy who supplies me with burgers/hotdogs at wildly different prices. If he's "on drugs or something" is not for me to judge. You're simply not considering the fact that burger chains (read McDonalds, et al) sell burgers every day of the week/year at fairly stable prices. Your "saying of being a business is just a metaphor for getting things done differently" is just another load of BS. Do successful restaurant chains buy product from a "guy on the street" {quote} I wouldn't always equate...
Yes, I think some kind of a trading franchise could work for you. Have a word with realjumper. He seems to have something going.
  • #950
  • Nov 22, 2013 9:19pm Nov 22, 2013 9:19pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Yes, I think some kind of a trading franchise could work for you. Have a word with realjumper. He seems to have something going.

Joe................. why is it that you simply carry on (seemingly dumfounded) but you cannot answer ANY
of the questions that were asked of you.
You seem like a zombie. Simply repeating yourself over and over while no sense whatsoever.

Tons of people have asked you real questions and you do not have the ability to give a real reply.

I was thinking of voting for you if you ran for president but I'm beginning to
believe that was wrong.

I withdraw my vote.

More importantly, why CAN'T you answer some of the questions that have been presented
to you.

Because you CAN'T !!!
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #951
  • Nov 22, 2013 9:41pm Nov 22, 2013 9:41pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Trading with the market is good. But buying at market top has its risks. You can counter this market by not doing anything or by trading with it. Going against it can also work if the market turns. So it all depends on your starting disposition and things you do with it to make it viable. The things you do are the active measures. So the question is do people have active measures that would increase the chance of their trade being a success ? If they have none then there can be no influence on the outcome of the trade. In that case the banks...
Thanks for the reply, I am just trying to understand. The only active measures I can take, once a trade is in, is to exit part of it, add to it, do nothing and let it run, or exit all of it. Although I am in the USA, my broker will let me "hedge" (the definition typically used here in FF where I can have both buy and sell orders in at the same time in on the same pair), so I could try to mitigate a bad buy position by entering a sell position, for example. If the sell position gained momentum, I could add to it and ride the new move down, and even though the buy trade was increasingly going negative, the positives from the added sell positions net as a positive to my margin account. Once the sell move is over, you would expect the market to square up, likely back to the original price level where I went long, and as the market moved back to my original price, I could add more buy positions as the sell/down move corrected. If the market does not square and continues to run south, I can continue to take sell positions that would add to my margin account, even though I had the one buy trade that is increasingly negative, but as long as the size of the sell positions are larger than the original buy trade, I am making money. Is this the basic idea?

Yes, I only trade with the market within the confines of market structure. If I do this, I rarely lose.
  • #952
  • Nov 22, 2013 9:54pm Nov 22, 2013 9:54pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Shooting ducks ? I am no expert on ducks, but I think they are out of season right now, aren't they ? Maybe it's the cheap beer doing the talking. I am not peddling anything. I am here chatting about trading and maybe the philosophy of it.
As I see it, you're not an expert at shooting ducks (else you'd know you're shot)
No expert at peddling anything or even drinking cheap beer.

You like to chat about trading but you're really no good at it.

Is that a "succinct summation" of your activity ??
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #953
  • Nov 22, 2013 10:11pm Nov 22, 2013 10:11pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Thanks for the reply, I am just trying to understand. The only active measures I can take, once a trade is in, is to exit part of it, add to it, do nothing and let it run, or exit all of it. Although I am in the USA, my broker will let me "hedge" (the definition typically used here in FF where I can have both buy and sell orders in at the same time in on the same pair), so I could try to mitigate a bad buy position by entering a sell position, for example. If the sell position gained momentum, I could add to it and ride the new move down,...
If you are making money then that is definitely the idea. You clearly have plenty of counter measures for the market. My definition of active measures fits you perfectly. I have been advocating occasionally that taking opposite direction trades while keeping the original trade is the way to go if the market is perceived to have changed direction. But it is difficult to identify when the market is turning. Also it's not always possible to take the opposite trade because of sleeping, down time, etc. So my latest big idea is to take the opposite trade at all times. That way I don't have to worry about the direction and can focus only on ensuring the bi-directional trades are generally well balanced. As for precisely how this balancing is done, that would be proprietary info. I am currently at the early stage of testing this approach. Only time will tell if this will work.
  • #954
  • Nov 22, 2013 10:13pm Nov 22, 2013 10:13pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} If you are making money then that is definitely the idea. You clearly have plenty of counter measures for the market. My definition of active measures fits you perfectly. I have been advocating occasionally that taking opposite direction trades while keeping the original trade is the way to go if the market is perceived to have changed direction. But it is difficult to identify when the market is turning. Also it's not always possible to take the opposite trade because of sleeping, down time, etc. [u][b]So my latest big idea is to take the...
Are you trolling?
Build good relationships with others.
  • #955
  • Nov 22, 2013 10:15pm Nov 22, 2013 10:15pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Joe does have a great strategy because it is immune to market swing
I would not want to be immune to market swings. I would rather ride them.

Nonetheless, all no stop guys admitted to use of stop loss techniques. Their stops are just huge and likely allow greater risk per trade than eventually collected reward.

The trading style is likely closer to trading stocks where many use buy and hold expecting that the market will eventually swing into profit (especially during bull markets).
  • #956
  • Nov 22, 2013 10:18pm Nov 22, 2013 10:18pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
Can you also make it work for slim ? He's in need of help I think.
Slim can look after himself.....as evidenced by his more than 200 charts posted. All I see from you is more yappin



Quoting BeginnerJoe
Are your live trades done with demo ?
If you read even a little of the thread you would have the answer to that question.



Quoting BeginnerJoe
I will show an example if I ever make a thread like yours. Right now I have no such plans.
No, of course you don't....you're real big on yappin, but tiny at backing up your mouth with evidence.....

So now...back to my question.....please show us how you alone (the self professed 0.1% of all traders who are profitable....still waiting on evidence to support this claim), can counter the market.

It's a simple question, and an expert such as yourself should be able to explain this, together with a few supporting charts, to us 99.9% losers.

Please......show us where we are all going wrong.....with supporting charts.

Don't make me ask the question again
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #957
  • Nov 22, 2013 10:21pm Nov 22, 2013 10:21pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote}So my latest big idea is to take the opposite trade at all times. That way I don't have to worry about the direction and can focus only on ensuring the bi-directional trades are generally well balanced. As for precisely how this balancing is done, that would be proprietary info. I am currently at the early stage of testing this approach. Only time will tell if this will work.
So you teach us something you do not even know yourself.

Does the following formula describe what you are doing?

1 - 1 - spread < 0
  • #958
  • Nov 22, 2013 10:27pm Nov 22, 2013 10:27pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
I am currently at the early stage of testing this approach. Only time will tell if this will work.
It's evident to anyone with common sense and a lick of insight that you are at the early stage of testing any approach. You say too many silly things with seeming sincerity for this to not be true.

Over the course of a week or so you've managed to include every newbie trading trope into your texts under the guise of it all being "smart business", as though you saying it makes it so.

I'm starting to feel sad for you.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #959
  • Nov 22, 2013 10:28pm Nov 22, 2013 10:28pm
Quoting grin
{quote} So you teach us something you do not even know yourself. Does the following formula describe what you are doing? 1 - 1 - spread < 0
No, I don't understand this formula. Feel free to explain.

As I haven't stated what my technique is, I see no reason to believe your formula would describe it.
  • #960
  • Nov 22, 2013 10:30pm Nov 22, 2013 10:30pm
Quoting grin
{quote} I would not want to be immune to market swings. I would rather ride them. Nonetheless, all no stop guys admitted to use of stop loss techniques. Their stops are just huge and likely allow greater risk per trade than eventually collected reward. The trading style is likely closer to trading stocks where many use buy and hold expecting that the market will eventually swing into profit (especially during bull markets).
I am not a no stop loss guy. I use stops, but they are not in the market.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
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