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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #921
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:08pm Nov 22, 2013 5:08pm
One needs to understand why the way BeginnerJoe does what he does is not truly a hedge.

Nor does it necessarily have to be done without a fixed stop loss.

It's just better that way...

It's all there in what he said, if you look close enough.

The thinking will do you good!



Just how many people do you think I am?

Or for that matter, me?
  • #922
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:24pm Nov 22, 2013 5:24pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} If we are to run it like a business, then everything we do should be by design and with specific goals in mind. .
So from what I gather, you "slept" on it and decided to change your strategy?


Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote}After sleeping on it, I now have it.
I will now trade long and short to capture all moves in the market. As my technique is highly cash generative, I will have double the cash generation power than before that will allow me to afford the additional cost of trading long and short.
So what happened to your "specific design". They change overnight? Where is your "specific goal" when you
let trades run and simply seem to hope?

Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote}
I will now trade long and short to capture all moves in the market/quote]

Anyway.... good luck with that........... BTW, wouldn't thatbe called "the holy grail"?



When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #923
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:26pm Nov 22, 2013 5:26pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
{quote} So much for being a businessman. Seems to me like you are one of those casino gamblers you always love to mention. {quote} I find it hilarious that jmn5611 was just mentioning how your strategy is so wonderful and how you shouldn't give up "the golden goose" for nothing. Only for you to write this. Hilarious. It's especially funny since you two are the same person. {quote} (yawn) Nothing new. This has been tried many times before. There are dozens of threads about it on this website alone. If only it was this easy. Hedging...
Real businessmen adapt their plan when there's is an advantage.

jmn5611 is not me. What you are doing is projecting, that you believe other people are like you and do what you do. Unlike you, I don't have a website to peddle, and so I don't need to pretend to be someone else.

I am not hedging. No use telling me about hedging. My plan is to capture all moves, with a secondary aim of maintaining an elastic balance in the two directions. The balance gives some semblance of hedging. But the primary goal is value generation and not value protection. This stuff is highly complex for newcomers. I don't expect you to understand it.

Your experience is such that you are only capable of looking at the protection angle. Maybe one day you will develop sufficiently to see beyond protection. That's when you ceases to be a casino player. A casino player will always end up losing no matter how much protection he puts in place. You may lose slowly, but you will lose the lot in the end.
  • #924
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:28pm Nov 22, 2013 5:28pm
(got the "quote" a little wrong there somewhere but can't seem to edit)

Oh well

have a happy
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #925
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:31pm Nov 22, 2013 5:31pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} So from what I gather, you "slept" on it and decided to change your strategy? {quote} So what happened to your "specific design". They change overnight? Where is your "specific goal" when you let trades run and simply seem to hope? {quote}
Who said I changed strategy ? I have a new strategy. The old strategy remains and in use all day today.

I don't hope. I know. But you don't know and you see hope. That isn't my problem.
  • #926
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:32pm Nov 22, 2013 5:32pm
Quoting Rap Skallion
One needs to understand why the way BeginnerJoe does what he does is not truly a hedge.... It's all there in what he said, if you look close enough.
If you look close enough you will see he states he is going both long and short simultaneously on EUR/USD.

Quoting Rap Skallion
Just how many people do you think I am? Or for that matter, me?
Apparently three now.
  • #927
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:35pm Nov 22, 2013 5:35pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
{quote} If you look close enough you will see he states he is going both long and short on EUR/USD.
Ok captain obvious. I am not going long and short. I am long and short, although the balance is currently skewed to the short side. I see no immediate need for rebalancing. See ? Hedge, what hedge ?
  • #928
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:39pm Nov 22, 2013 5:39pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Who said I changed strategy ? I have a new strategy. The old strategy remains and in use all day today. I don't hope. I know.
Why the new strategy if the old one is so good? Why not devote all your resources to the one that works best? You never make any sense. You keep trying to dig yourself out of the hole, but you only make it worse for yourself.
  • #929
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:42pm Nov 22, 2013 5:42pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
{quote} Why the new strategy if the old one is so good? Why not devote all your resources to the one that works best? You never make any sense. You keep trying to dig yourself out of the hole, but you only make it worse for yourself.
The answer would have been apparent if you bothered to read the posts. But since you are only here to argue, I don't suppose it mattered.
  • #930
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:46pm Nov 22, 2013 5:46pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I don't hope. I know.
So what exactly is it that you know? That you can let losses run? Of course you can.
From what I've gathered, you believe that you can take tiny profits and let large
losses accumulate yet this is not "gambling"

First and foremost, any kind of financial endeavor that you undertake is, in some way,
a "gamble". Unless your outcome is 100% guaranteed then there's a "gamble". A risk.

So get off the "casino" bandwagon.
OR, are you saying that you have a method where this is absolutely no "gambling"
involved ??
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #931
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:51pm Nov 22, 2013 5:51pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Real businessmen adapt their plan when there's is an advantage. jmn5611 is not me. What you are doing is projecting, that you believe other people are like you and do what you do. Unlike you, I don't have a website to peddle, and so I don't need to pretend to be someone else. I am not hedging. No use telling me about hedging. My plan is to capture all moves, with a secondary aim of maintaining an elastic balance in the two directions. The balance gives some semblance of hedging. But the primary goal is value generation and not value protection....
What a load. You sound like someone who just started a course in Business Terminology 101 at TAFE. You speak some serious bullshit.

You had no credibility to begin-with, but if you did have you slayed it the moment you started talking about being long and short one pair. You are clearly a disciple of bob, or should be. Are you just taking a break from knobwood's forum and slumming it with us "simple" folk here? Is that what's happening?

Please, use more terminology to say nothing. I can see you standing at the front of a class giving a presentation showing a chart with profit projections, and then someone in the class points-out that your chart is upside down.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #932
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:53pm Nov 22, 2013 5:53pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} So what exactly is it that you know? That you can let losses run? Of course you can. From what I've gathered, you believe that you can take tiny profits and let large losses accumulate yet this is not "gambling" First and foremost, any kind of financial endeavor that you undertake is, in some way, a "gamble". Unless your outcome is 100% guaranteed then there's a "gamble". A risk. So get off the "casino" bandwagon. OR, are you saying that you have a method where this is absolutely no "gambling" involved ??
Anything that resembles a casino red/black bet is a gamble. Anything that allows you some influence over the outcome is less than a gamble.
  • #933
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:59pm Nov 22, 2013 5:59pm
Quoting nubcake
{quote} What a load. You sound like someone who just started a course in Business Terminology 101 at TAFE. You speak some serious bullshit. You had no credibility to begin-with, but if you did have you slayed it the moment you started talking about being long and short one pair. You are clearly a disciple of bob, or should be. Are you just taking a break from knobwood's forum and slumming it with us "simple" folk here? Is that what's happening? Please, use more terminology to say nothing. I can see you standing at the front of a class giving a presentation...
Yes, I know of a bob on the internet. But he's in a different field and he hated me. Don't know who knobwood is.

Others here believes I am someone else on this forum. You believe I am someone else on a different forum. Why do people believe I need to be someone else ? Can I not just be me ?

As for credibility, why do I need it ?
  • #934
  • Nov 22, 2013 6:05pm Nov 22, 2013 6:05pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Anything that resembles a casino red/black bet is a gamble. Anything that allows you some influence over the outcome is less than a gamble.
There are those who've tried to explain to you that YOU have NO influence in a 5 $ trillion market.
How do you propose that you will be allowed any kind of influence.

And how exactly do you distinguish between a red/black bet (in trading).

C'mon Joe.... give us some real answers rather than your usual BS
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #935
  • Nov 22, 2013 6:10pm Nov 22, 2013 6:10pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} There are those who've tried to explain to you that YOU have NO influence in a 5 $ trillion market. How do you propose that you will be allowed any kind of influence. And how exactly do you distinguish between a red/black bet (in trading). C'mon Joe.... give us some real answers rather than your usual BS
When you place a bet and wait a while to see if you have won, that's playing casinos.

When you actively engage in activities that counter the market, that is influencing the outcome.
  • #936
  • Nov 22, 2013 6:30pm Nov 22, 2013 6:30pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} When you actively engages in activities that counters the market, that is influencing the outcome.
So if I actively engaged in buying (for example) AUD/USD this week that "counters" the market,
was not gambling and was also influencing the outcome.

Am I beginning to get it ??

Problem is............ I'm down some big pips because I tried to "counter" the market
and I just can't see where my "influence" came into play.

Wouldn't it have been easier to "bet on red" as that's what the "house" was showing ???
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #937
  • Nov 22, 2013 6:59pm Nov 22, 2013 6:59pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} So if I actively engaged in buying (for example) AUD/USD this week that "counters" the market, was not gambling and was also influencing the outcome. Am I beginning to get it ?? Problem is............ I'm down some big pips because I tried to "counter" the market and I just can't see where my "influence" came into play. Wouldn't it have been easier to "bet on red" as that's what the "house" was showing ???
Maybe you didn't counter the market correctly and so you resorted to gambling. Taking on excessive risk is another sign of gambling.

When careful consideration is given to taking on the correct amount of risk, that would be less gambling and more influencing the outcome. Had you done that, you would be down less pips. Therefore the outcome would have clearly been influenced. Going from being a gambler to being a business changes the level of influence you have on the outcome.

A business would take active measures to change the outcome. A gambler lets the spinning wheel decide. But unfortunately the forex spinning wheel is particularly risky. Even if you bet red, you would have likely ended up losing anyway because you have not considered the possibility that the entity on the other side of your bet is a businessman, or a software proxy for him, who engages in activities to change the outcome to his benefit. The moment you assign your influence of the outcome to the other side like a gambler would, the game is lost.

So why are you down so much pips ? Didn't anyone teach you to use stops ? Gambles are best done with stops. These will not prevent your going bust, but they will delay it. Whether a cancerous slow death is better than an instant decapitating death is, of course, down to personal taste .
  • #938
  • Nov 22, 2013 7:28pm Nov 22, 2013 7:28pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Going from being a gambler to being a business changes the level of influence you have on the outcome. .
OK............. the only influence I could have is if I raised enough capital via becoming a business.
In this business, that might mean "hedge fund" or something similar.

But YOU win.
Although, I think you're in the wrong profession. You have a knack for sidestepping
any real questions and concentrating on your endless BS.

I think you should run for president. What you do is what politicians excel at.
And we could sure use another president that doesn't know shit from shinola.

There's some historical evidence that it's a fact.

So... I'll vote for ya' , Joe

You could let the World get right by doing nothing and sticking to your BS.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #939
  • Nov 22, 2013 8:03pm Nov 22, 2013 8:03pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} OK............. the only influence I could have is if I raised enough capital via becoming a business. In this business, that might mean "hedge fund" or something similar. But YOU win. Although, I think you're in the wrong profession. You have a knack for sidestepping any real questions and concentrating on your endless BS. I think you should run for president. What you do is what politicians excel at. And we could sure use another president that doesn't know shit from shinola. There's some historical evidence that it's a fact. So... I'll...
You are not getting it. My saying of being a business is just a metaphor for getting things done differently. Imagine you are running a burger/hotdog stall on the street. Imagine further that the guy who supplies you with the raw burgers/hotdogs is on drugs or something. So each day he sells stuff to you at wildly different prices. How will you make your business a success given this unpredictability ? Buying and selling forex is a bit like that. If you don't have a head to solve this burger business problem, there's no way for you to solve forex.

If you continue to take casino bets, the outcome will be obvious because the casino always wins in the end.

Both 2+2 and realjumper claim to have ways to win and they are willing to share. Why don't you follow them and see if you win consistently ?
  • #940
  • Nov 22, 2013 8:04pm Nov 22, 2013 8:04pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} When you actively engage in activities that counter the market, that is influencing the outcome.
What activities are you engaged in to counter the market? For example, the UJ was moving higher today. What might you do to counter the market's move higher? Maybe start with a clear definition of "counter the market". When you say influence the outcome, do you mean the outcome of the markets move or the outcome of your sell trade as the market moves against you (to follow the example of the UJ today)? Finally, instead of trying to counter the market, have you considered the benefits of trading with the market?
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