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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #841
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:30pm Nov 20, 2013 8:30pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} If you believe that YOU can influence a trade in a $5 trillion per day market then you are an even greater idiot than I had imagined (and my imagination was running wild). WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU !! ??
By saying that. I would say you have no clue. So you have been eliminated as a possible candidate for a successful forex trader.

Yes, trades can be influenced.
  • #842
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:30pm Nov 20, 2013 8:30pm
Quoting realjumper
{quote} I see.....so your study was based upon in depth interviews then? Could I see the questionnaire that you gave to each interviewee please?
Refer to my interview with slim. That's the format I use.
  • #843
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:33pm Nov 20, 2013 8:33pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Refer to my interview with slim. That's the format I use.
ROFL...that's not a "format"
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #844
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:33pm Nov 20, 2013 8:33pm
Quoting nubcake
{quote} Continually using the words "business" and "businessmen" and little else does not make you any authority on... anything. Something for you to consider. You've demonstrated a lack of substance, and a sheeple mentality. bbl to see how this all turns-out.
My continuing to mention business and businessman in opposition to casino and red/black should give you a clue on what is important in successful trading.
  • #845
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:36pm Nov 20, 2013 8:36pm
Trading is primarily a business problem in managing input and output prices. I bet none of you have ever heard anything so deep.
  • #846
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:39pm Nov 20, 2013 8:39pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Refer to my interview with slim. That's the format I use.

You get more ludicrous with each post. You were planted here as a joke... right???

At any rate..... you sure are funny.

So... if you had an "interview" with me, as you so suggested, then my conclusion is
that you are unacceptable.

Sorry Joe, you'll need to go elsewhere to find what you're looking for.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #847
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:41pm Nov 20, 2013 8:41pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
Trading is primarily a business problem in managing input and output prices. I bet none of you have ever heard anything so deep.


Trading has, and always will be about inventory. No different than having a store front with inventory....
I feel you're talking semantics here.
Just because one has not done enough due diligence for a field, does not mean the rest of the world is 'not successful'.
It's attitudes like this that scare most away from these forums.
  • #848
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:45pm Nov 20, 2013 8:45pm
Quoting Benevolent
{quote} Trading has, and always will be about inventory. No different than having a store front with inventory.... I feel you're talking semantics here. Just because one has not done enough due diligence for a field, does not mean the rest of the world is 'not successful'. It's attitudes like this that scare most away from these forums.
Well obviously when people know what they are talking about, it is easily apparent. Let's say I encountered very few that are apparent. So I stick to my conclusion of the 99.9%. Plus or minus a couple makes not much difference.
  • #849
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:48pm Nov 20, 2013 8:48pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
Trading is primarily a business problem in managing input and output prices. I bet none of you have ever heard anything so deep.
And with that you show you "deep" you are. Congrats on your depth.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #850
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:54pm Nov 20, 2013 8:54pm
Quoting nubcake
{quote} And with that you show you "deep" you are. Congrats on your depth.
Ok, you win.

With that, I am done for now. The trading has dried up and no more pips are expected. Plenty aud action earlier, though.

Night, night and sweet dreams. Hope you all dream of business instead of casino.
  • #851
  • Nov 20, 2013 9:04pm Nov 20, 2013 9:04pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Well obviously when people know what they are talking about, it is easily apparent. Let's say I encountered very few that are apparent. So I stick to my conclusion of the 99.9%. Plus or minus a couple makes not much difference.
HEY JOE !!!

Perhaps your letting your self-presumed business genius
get in the way of your trading.

Trading might be a business but not the same as a "brick and mortar"
business, especially if you're an individual trader.

The original title "trading without a stop loss" is not the same as selling
hamburgers.

And apparently, neither you or I have said anything that's apparent.

"Plus or minus a couple makes not much difference.' Unless of course you
consider that.
A couple of rabbits can make a lot of bunnies.

Sorry Joe, you're getting a little boring
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #852
  • Nov 20, 2013 10:14pm Nov 20, 2013 10:14pm
Im convinced this is Brijon's alter ego LOL

Brick & Mortar...

Influencing outcomes...Wuuuuuuuuut??????

Managing input & output prices .


You make absolutely zero sense at all... Nothing you have said at all makes sense.

I just shake my head in disbelief at the sheer stupidity of everything you say.

With all the time you have posting your childish jibberish and, with correct me if im wrong, your hundreds of open trades..just how do you manage
it all..LOL


Just fer Slim shhhhhhhh
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #853
  • Nov 20, 2013 10:36pm Nov 20, 2013 10:36pm
Don't let they nay-sayers distract you. You can absolutely trade without stop loss. It's hilarious to see the 1% per trade, 2:1 RR crowd out in full force. Claiming to be accurate more than 50% of the time long term on pure speculation is laughable. Pathetic even.

Short term currency for us retail traders is random walk! A Markov process. An inefficient market! You cannot predict price. If you can you should win a Nobel prize. Give me a break.

If you can trade without a stoploss go for it. Thousands of successful traders do.
Remember, Red. Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things...
  • #854
  • Nov 20, 2013 10:50pm Nov 20, 2013 10:50pm
Quoting vox dei
{quote} Hi 2+2, Excellent post. Just a small nitpick. Hope you don't mind. Floating losses are not the same as closed losses, they are actually worse. Floating losses undoubtedly represent exposure to risk (ie, unrealized losses can grow larger) as you've mentioned, and additionally they eat up account margin. Meaning that for all practical purposes, floating losses decrease the amount of capital available to trade with at a given moment, representing effective loss of opportunity to, either profit, or worse yet to, recover from drawdown. Let me...
Well said vox. It's also a very good point that you mention how traders fall into the "over-traps". You explained it well.
  • #855
  • Nov 20, 2013 10:58pm Nov 20, 2013 10:58pm
Quoting Benevolent
I feel like this topic has become a beaten dead horse over the past year....You don't need stops to trade successfully. I've been at this for 5 years now, never once used a stop throughout my career. I now trade treasuries at a firm as of the last few months...they also DO NOT use stops. Now, that's not to say, it's not a good idea to have a broker on speed dial in case of software issues. If you feel more comfortable using stops....so be it, but it does not mean that you can't be successful without them. /deadhorse
By stops we mean cut the loss, not so much whether you are using a hard stop or manually entering an order to exit the position. For example, cut loss at 2% as opposed to letting it wipe out most/all funds.
  • #856
  • Nov 20, 2013 11:14pm Nov 20, 2013 11:14pm
Quoting ForexFury
Don't let they nay-sayers distract you. You can absolutely trade without stop loss. It's hilarious to see the 1% per trade, 2:1 RR crowd out in full force. Claiming to be accurate more than 50% of the time long term on pure speculation is laughable. Pathetic even. Short term currency for us retail traders is random walk! A Markov process. An inefficient market! You cannot predict price. If you can you should win a Nobel prize. Give me a break. If you can trade without a stoploss go for it. Thousands of successful traders do.
You don't need to predict the market more than 50% of the time. If your average reward to risk ratio is 7:1 (for example) you could profit substantially with only a 15-20% win rate. With that said, I agree that traders who approach every trade with set targets of 2:1, or 3:1, or whatever, is silly. There should be flexibility with your taking profit, but not so much with your stopping the loss.

Ironically, you cite randomness as a main reason why traders should not use a stop loss. It should be the other way around. Since price is unpredictable and could unexpectedly run against them wiping out all their equity is precisely the reason they need to use a stop loss.

Lastly, I don't agree that the markets are completely random. Monetary policy by governments and central banks affect the markets (ie inefficiences and prices) to a certain degree of predictability. It's never 100% certain, but they can be predicted with greater accuracy than pure randomness.
  • #857
  • Nov 20, 2013 11:37pm Nov 20, 2013 11:37pm
Quoting ForexFury
Don't let they nay-sayers distract you. You can absolutely trade without stop loss.
I didn't suggest that you cannot trade without a stop loss ..... I DID suggest that it is useless to try and trade
without ever "stopping" a trade versus letting it run forever against you. Even if you get that losing trade into
profit, how many weeks/months/years might it take??? Do you take into consideration the opportunity cost ?
Because of your months long draw down you can't enter another trade...........
Some here talk about 9 or 10 pips TP and nothing is wrong with that (maybe) but there's a big difference
between that or letting a trade run against you for months or years or against you for 5000 or 8000 pips
when your initial TP was 10 pips.

Perhaps some need to clarify what it REALLY means to them to trade without a stop. I've also stated that
my MM would not allow a huge drawdown because I would get a margin call long before that happens.
Maybe that makes me stupid..... maybe that makes me careful. It IS the way I like it.


Quoting ForexFury
Claiming to be accurate more than 50% of the time long term on pure speculation is laughable. Pathetic even. Short term currency for us retail traders is random walk! A Markov process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_process


So if you believe that it's really so important then you do that Mr. Fury.
Close your mind and never listen (really) to others...... only to what you BELIEVE
others have said without looking further.

That's you way.......... it seems.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #858
  • Nov 20, 2013 11:41pm Nov 20, 2013 11:41pm
Quoting bluesteele
shhhhhhhh


sshhhhhhhhhhhhh




When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #859
  • Nov 20, 2013 11:52pm Nov 20, 2013 11:52pm
Gambling
Suppose that you start with $10 in poker chips, and you repeatedly wager $1 on a (fair) coin toss indefinitely, or until you lose all of your poker chips. If http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/8/3...72e0ccde69.png represents the number of dollars you have in chips after n tosses, with http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/9/2...7443659494.png, then the sequence http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/2/a...d4a3a2753a.png is a Markov process. If I know that you have 12 chips now, then it would be expected that with even odds, you will either have 11 or 13 chips after the next toss. This guess is not improved by the added knowledge that you started with 10 chips, then went up to 11, down to 10, up to 11, and then to 12.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #860
  • Nov 20, 2013 11:55pm Nov 20, 2013 11:55pm
A non-Markov example
Suppose that you have a coin purse containing five quarters (each worth 25c), five nickels (each worth 5c) and five dimes (each worth 10c), and one-by-one, you randomly draw coins from the purse and set them on a table. If http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/8/3...72e0ccde69.png represents the total value of the coins set on the table after n draws, with http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/c...f321620ddf.png, then the sequence http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/2/a...d4a3a2753a.png is not a Markov process.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
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