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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #281
  • Nov 9, 2013 6:38pm Nov 9, 2013 6:38pm
Quoting vox dei
{quote} Clever, very clever from you. But, what if a worst case scenario, where price defies all probability and goes against you, were to happen. Certainly you consider the possibility, although you find it highly improbable. Would you eventually take the loss, or let it run?

It will not happen, because i will never take a trade at this level.
  • #282
  • Nov 9, 2013 6:39pm Nov 9, 2013 6:39pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} Holy grail maybe? Maybe they are not 100% right, but when they are wrong, they can get out at a VERY small loss or at break even consistently.
Ah, but that case, I would consider it trading using a stop loss, because there's a line in the sand that when crossed one says: I'm wrong, gtfo. Live and trade another day.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #283
  • Nov 9, 2013 6:42pm Nov 9, 2013 6:42pm
Quoting vox dei
{quote} Ah, but that case, I would consider it trading using a stop loss, because there's a line in the sand that when crossed one says: I'm wrong, gtfo. Live and trade another day.
Yes. it is important to draw that line.

FYI I trade without a stop-loss, and I struggle with drawing that line sometimes but the better I do it, the more profitable I am. It comes with practice.

Honestly I find it funny how the Scalpeur guy is talking about not trading at those levels and pointing to his DEMO account as proof that trading without SL is profitable. My response to that is, any level might be the next ten year low or high - you simply don't know. the odds are super low but it can happen!
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  • #284
  • Nov 9, 2013 6:44pm Nov 9, 2013 6:44pm
Quoting scalpeur
{quote} It will not happen, because i will never take a trade at this level.
Sorry, I find your answer insufficient. The market can do whatever it wants whenever it wants, and nobody can predict 100% of the time.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #285
  • Nov 9, 2013 6:45pm Nov 9, 2013 6:45pm
Here are two timeless quotes from jesse livermore.


~Being wrong – not taking the loss – that is what does the damage to the pocket book and to the soul.

~Instead of hoping he must fear; instead of fearing he must hope. He must fear that his loss may develop into a much bigger loss, and hope that his profit may become a big profit.
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  • #286
  • Nov 9, 2013 6:47pm Nov 9, 2013 6:47pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} Yes. it is important to draw that line. FYI I trade without a stop-loss, and I struggle with drawing that line sometimes but the better I do it, the more profitable I am. It comes with practice. Honestly I find it funny how the Scalpeur guy is talking about not trading at those levels and pointing to his DEMO account as proof that trading without SL is profitable. My response to that is, any level might be the next ten year low or high - you simply don't know. the odds are super low but it can happen!
I like your way of thinking
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #287
  • Nov 9, 2013 6:48pm Nov 9, 2013 6:48pm
Quoting vox dei
{quote} I like your way of thinking
Implicit in what I said is, the sell trade you are holding right now in EUR/USD might turn into 70k profit 10 years later. LOL
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  • #288
  • Nov 9, 2013 6:53pm Nov 9, 2013 6:53pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} Implicit in what I said is, the sell trade you are holding right now in EUR/USD might turn into 70k profit 10 years later. LOL
OR might reverse violently. One can never tell 100%. Either way it doesn't matter. It's just a demo voodoo sell. All my real money trading is either automated technical, or news.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #289
  • Nov 9, 2013 6:57pm Nov 9, 2013 6:57pm
Quoting vox dei
{quote} Sorry, I find your answer insufficient. The market can do whatever it wants whenever it wants, and nobody can predict 100% of the time.
I am trading in the bollinger band, all time i am in i am good, nothing else to explain.
  • #290
  • Nov 9, 2013 7:00pm Nov 9, 2013 7:00pm
Quoting vox dei
{quote} OR might reverse violently. One can never tell 100%. Either way it doesn't matter. It's just a demo voodoo sell. All my real money trading is either automated technical, or news.
haha OK - good for you!

Honestly, if there's anything as close to a holy grail in the markets, in my opinion is EW theory. I think in terms of big picture, it points you to the large opportunities. But the real useful part is in giving you entries on all time frames. All the stuff like divergences, harmonic patterns, traditional technical patterns and indicators are imo all derivations from elliot wave theory.

I'm not entirely sure why it works, but when used with stuff like pivot levels, whole numbers, other areas of confluence it tends to work more than a little well in providing well-timed entries...

Maybe I will do a PhD research on it - currently studying economics

But anyway, the point of this thread I think is to distinguish between

Stop-loss orders as an order TYPE versus the concept of stopping your losses (i.e. getting out of the market when you are wrong).

I am against stop-loss orders but I am totally for stopping your losses.
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  • #291
  • Nov 9, 2013 7:18pm Nov 9, 2013 7:18pm
Quoting scalpeur
{quote} I am trading in the bollinger band, all time i am in i am good, nothing else to explain.
It is working for you and you're happy. Nothing left to explain. I'm sure you can live without my approval. Best wishes of continuous success
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #292
  • Nov 9, 2013 7:32pm Nov 9, 2013 7:32pm
Quoting vox dei
Allow me to illustrate 2+2's point: {image}
Like 2+2, you are unable to see tons of profits in shorts in your own chart. Real trading isn't like playing casinos. It's about managing positions. As for how that is done, you will never find out as you are blinded by the fear of losing more than a few pips. Maybe one day you will see the light as 2+2 did that trying to make money from running a website is easier.
  • #293
  • Nov 9, 2013 7:40pm Nov 9, 2013 7:40pm
Quoting vox dei
{quote} But, can you cope with a black swan event like the one in the chart above, should you suffer one?
I can easily cope with that and made tons more than the initial loss. It has to do with capital allocation. But obviously a typical casino player would be wiped out as he bets it all in one direction. Real traders trade in all directions that are profitable.
  • #294
  • Nov 9, 2013 7:40pm Nov 9, 2013 7:40pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} haha OK - good for you! Honestly, if there's anything as close to a holy grail in the markets, in my opinion is EW theory. I think in terms of big picture, it points you to the large opportunities. But the real useful part is in giving you entries on all time frames. All the stuff like divergences, harmonic patterns, traditional technical patterns and indicators are imo all derivations from elliot wave theory. I'm not entirely sure why it works, but when used with stuff like pivot levels, whole numbers, other areas of confluence it tends...
Imho, the closest thing to the Holy Grail is to always take things with a healthy dose of skepticism. Everything works and nothing works.

Considering stop-loss, I see them more as the concept, and less as the order. The necessary line in the sand where one accepts a trade has gone bad.

Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Like 2+2, you are unable to see tons of profits in shorts in your own chart. Real trading isn't like playing casinos. It's about managing positions. As for how that is done, you will never find out as you are blinded by the fear of losing more than a few pips. Maybe one day you will see the light as 2+2 did that trying to make money from running a website is easier.
What's with the attitude? Are we not all adults here?

I can't see any profit from that one particular sell marked on my chart. Can anyone see a profit form that sell? Can you?
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #295
  • Edited 8:31pm Nov 9, 2013 7:49pm | Edited 8:31pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I can easily cope with that and made tons more than the initial loss. It has to do with capital allocation. But obviously a typical casino player would be wiped out as he bets it all in one direction. Real traders trade in all directions that are profitable.
Real trading using stop loss. Enjoy kid.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #296
  • Nov 9, 2013 7:52pm Nov 9, 2013 7:52pm
Quoting vox dei
I can't see any profit from that one particular sell marked on my chart. Can anyone see a profit form that sell? Can you?
Why must you just have one sell ? Can you not have one sell and 5 buys ? Then when the moment is right 10 sells follow by 10 sells follow by 5 buys, and so on. But if you are talking about casino plays, then I would have to defer to your knowledge because I have practically no experience on casinos.
  • #297
  • Nov 9, 2013 7:54pm Nov 9, 2013 7:54pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Why must you just have one sell ? Can you not have one sell and 5 buys ? Then when the moment is right 10 sells follow by 10 sells follow by 5 buys, and so on. But if you are talking about casino plays, then I would have to defer to your knowledge because I have practically no experience on casinos.
Why have open trades in opposite directions on the same pair? Just close the damn trade if you are convinced it is reversing and stop feeding your broker additional commissions lol.
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  • #298
  • Nov 9, 2013 7:56pm Nov 9, 2013 7:56pm
Quoting vox dei
{quote} Real trading using stop loss. Enjoy kid. {image}
Not bad for 4% a month. But no match for my 5% for last 6 days, 3 of which had no volatility. Mine is real account of course. Not sure if yours is demo.
  • #299
  • Nov 9, 2013 7:58pm Nov 9, 2013 7:58pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Not bad for 4% a month. But no match for my 5% for last 6 days, 3 of which had no volatility. Mine is real account of course. Not sure if yours is demo.
You remind me of another BeginnerJoe on another Forex forum. I wonder if you are the same guy.
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  • #300
  • Nov 9, 2013 7:58pm Nov 9, 2013 7:58pm
Quoting shellsnail
{quote} Why have open trades in opposite directions on the same pair? Just close the damn trade if you are convinced it is reversing and stop feeding your broker additional commissions lol.
Erh, I keep positions precisely to not give brokers commissions. Why should I sell and buy back later when I have already bought ? You are not being logical.
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