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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #241
  • Nov 7, 2013 11:22pm Nov 7, 2013 11:22pm
Quoting Gwan
it is old story, but some broker offer swap free account for religious reason, you can hedge using this to get free swap, ,and yes it is illegal or breaking term of service because you ask for swap free account to get swap. (if somehow proven, your account will be closed)

if i have opened a trade with +ve swap and it is losing for 10 days for example, but the swap is working for me, then after day 14 the market goes to my trade take profit and i made profit from the swap and from the deal itself, then why the broker will close my account ???
if this broker closing my account , then this is meaning this broker is a garbage non legalized ........

then why the good brokers will get from you -swap when the deal has it, and make you lose money for the -ve swap., is it fair to get from me and not to pay for me if my trade is profitable from the +ve swap.

the good broker who is NDD , and giving you the hedging, the EA is allowed, he is taking his commission, legal and authorized and regulated and showing the swap in its correct formula, then this is the good broker, and i found all of these items in alpari, ,.... i am not making here an advertisment for them, but , they are supporting me a lot here in dubai office , and at the same time there office in UK is cooperating with all of my requirments and clarifications and they are taking from me commission ...then why should i be worried.
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #242
  • Nov 8, 2013 12:56am Nov 8, 2013 12:56am
Quoting Samer1970
{quote} the good broker who is NDD , and giving you the hedging, the EA is allowed, he is taking his commission, legal and authorized and regulated and showing the swap in its correct formula, then this is the good broker, and i found all of these items in alpari, ,.... i am not making here an advertisment for them, but , they are supporting me a lot here in dubai office , and at the same time there office in UK is cooperating with all of my requirments and clarifications and they are taking from me commission ...then why should i be worried.
All is perfect, life is great, just a few flash crash style 140 pip spikes out of blue.

Your own screenshot: http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...3&d=1383339004
  • #243
  • Nov 8, 2013 1:45am Nov 8, 2013 1:45am
No stop loss = no stop to the loss

Why would anyone want to keep losing money without putting a stop to it?
  • #244
  • Nov 8, 2013 5:25am Nov 8, 2013 5:25am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
No stop loss = no stop to the loss Why would anyone want to keep losing money without putting a stop to it?
Why would you guarantee to buy high and sell low and expect to make money ? For instance buying high at 10 and stopping low at 5 is to make such a guarantee.

People who buy high and sell low will always lose. If all you think about is how to lose money, you will. Winners are those who can get out of that vicious circle. Prices are meant to fluctuate. It's quite normal for price to go high, then go low, and then go high, and so on. Just because the price is at the low end of the fluctuation, doesn't mean the money is lost.
  • #245
  • Nov 8, 2013 5:55am Nov 8, 2013 5:55am
Quoting grin
{quote} All is perfect, life is great, just a few flash crash style 140 pip spikes out of blue. Your own screenshot: http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...3&d=1383339004
BECAUSE OF THAT GOD CREATED SOMETHING CALLED MATHEMATICS + MONEY MANAGEMENT + SSII FIRST RULE ( KEEP 40% OF YOUR ACCOUNT FOR SAFETY )

AHH, I FORGET TO SHOW YOU MY RESULTS ..... IN 26 DAYS , THE LOST TRADES ARE 3% OF 1028 TRADES .... AND SMOOTH INCOME ON DAILY BASIS WITHOUT THE STOP LOSS

ENJOY

SSII

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 85 KB
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #246
  • Nov 8, 2013 6:18am Nov 8, 2013 6:18am
I AM TRADING WITHOUT STOP LOSS, MY SYSTEM IS DEPENDING ON 40% SAFETY FOR MY TRADES AND THE PAIRS I CHOOSE AND THE LOCATION OF THE PRICE PLUS THE SWAP AT NIGHT.
IF YOU MIX THESE ALL IN A FOREX REACTOR, YOU WILL GET SSII STRATEGY ,
THE TRADES MAXIMUM FLOATING LOSS IS REACHING SOME TIMES 30% OF MY ACCOUNT, BUT NO ISSUES AS THE OTHER REMAINING CONDITIONS WILL PROTECT THE ACCOUNT... SO WHY I GIVE MY HARD INCOME MONEY BY A STOP LOSS TO THE MARKET...

AND BECAUSE OF STOPLOSS HUNTS, I DO NOT HAVE THESE VALUES...

OK!! >>>
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #247
  • Nov 8, 2013 6:25am Nov 8, 2013 6:25am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
No stop loss = no stop to the loss Why would anyone want to keep losing money without putting a stop to it?
WHY ? yes this the question, the answer might be.... the brokers created the stop loss to make the small traders like you and me to loose thier money by the idea of "PROTECT YOUR ACCOUNT "

I DO BELIEVE THAT THE HUGE FIRMS SUCH BANKS HAVE SYSTEMS WORKING FOR FOREX AND STOCKS WITHOUT ANY SINGLE STOP LOSS ON ANY TRADE...

THEY JUST OPEN THE TRADE AND KEEP IT, THEN THEY MAKE HEDGING AND SO ON, WHY ? BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE THAN 50% SAFETY OF THEIR ACCOUNTS BOOKED TO PROTECT THE OPEN TRADES....

I WAS TRADING STOCKS BEFORE LONG ..LONG TIME AND IN STOCKS ...FOR SURE YOU WILL NOT HAVE STOP LOSS.... I MEAN IF YOU TRADE THESE STOCKS DIRECTLY IN THE STOCK MARKET AND NOT THROUGH THE INTERNET BROKERS.......SO... WHY AT THAT TIME THE CREATOR OF STOCK MARKETS DID NOT ADD STOP LOSS TO THE STOCKS....

BECAUSE SIMPLY, IT IS A NEW DEFINITION BY THE FOREX BROKERS TO MAKE YOU LOOSING YOUR MONEY BY HUNTING THESE POINTS....
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #248
  • Nov 8, 2013 6:35am Nov 8, 2013 6:35am
here is my swap live value for the opened trades from yesterday, on daily basis, my account is well protected by 15$ to 25$ ,,,
yes this vakue is small, but do not forget that my account is micro, that is my lots are factor of 0.01
so by simple math

yes math...

Attached Image

i will assume 21$ daily swap in average income to my account as per the ssii rules, then
if i have 3 floating loss trades of size 0.01 lot each for example

then 3*0.01 lot = 0.03 lot = 0.3$ ..................................correct me if i am wrong

then 21/0.3 = 210/3 = 70 pips safety i gain for these three trades on that day......

this is my personal way of doing mm and thank you
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #249
  • Nov 8, 2013 6:42am Nov 8, 2013 6:42am
I hv 2 types of trading methods, eye open (short term, within a day) and eye closed (mediem long term, week and longer)
Those trades with eye closed didn't set SL, but the scale is about 1/8 of short term.
The market is different from the past, it can swing more than 1000 pips in couple of minutes. It can easily burst your account if no SL.
Face both Win and Lose bravely
  • #250
  • Nov 8, 2013 7:25am Nov 8, 2013 7:25am
Reducing size will easily counter a bursting account. SL's needn't have a look-in.

Skill in trading has a lot to do with betting small to win big. Practically anyone can bet big to win big. But that would be a formula to disaster. Large order with a SL is simply a large piece of guaranteed free meat. It will be gobbled up. The probability of losing money goes up when the size of the guaranteed profit for the market goes up. You'd make it so much more enticing.
  • #251
  • Nov 8, 2013 8:57am Nov 8, 2013 8:57am
Hello Guys,

I'm kinda new on this forum. So today I was trading nfp. I set my stoploss at 40 pips.
When I got back to check, My position was closed while the position had turned only 7 pips against me and i took a loss.
At closed psoitions it read "profit call".
So I don't understand what is going. Why was my position closed after already 7 pips? why did it say "profit call" when it was an actual loss.
Has the spread anything to do with it?

I hope anybody has the answers since I am very confused.
(My broker is plus 500)
  • #252
  • Nov 8, 2013 12:29pm Nov 8, 2013 12:29pm
Quoting tommmaso
hello guys, i'm kinda new on this forum. So today i was trading nfp. I set my stoploss at 40 pips. When i got back to check, my position was closed while the position had turned only 7 pips against me and i took a loss. At closed psoitions it read "profit call". So i don't understand what is going. Why was my position closed after already 7 pips? Why did it say "profit call" when it was an actual loss. Has the spread anything to do with it? I hope anybody has the answers since i am very confused. (my broker is plus 500)

hi, in the huge market feed international releases such as the nfp, the spread will be increased too much if your broker gave you a non fixed spread account.

yes, on today my spread for example for usd/try was in range of 3 pips and on the release of the nfp reached to more than 16 pips , why i know, because i had a loss trade of 0.01 lot , the profit should be 15 pips, and i did not add stop loss, so when the spread gone crazy , i had a loss of 1.7$, due to large spread.

the spread was too much larger than my profit then it closed the deal with a profit -$1.7 ( yes minuse sign ) the system configured it as a profit because the spread expended and touched the take profit point and as it is larger than the profit it gave a profit with -$1.7.
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #253
  • Nov 8, 2013 2:11pm Nov 8, 2013 2:11pm
Quoting tommmaso
Hello Guys, I'm kinda new on this forum. So today I was trading nfp. I set my stoploss at 40 pips. When I got back to check, My position was closed while the position had turned only 7 pips against me and i took a loss. At closed psoitions it read "profit call". So I don't understand what is going. Why was my position closed after already 7 pips? why did it say "profit call" when it was an actual loss. Has the spread anything to do with it? I hope anybody has the answers since I am very confused. (My broker is plus 500)
As Samer explained, it is not really as simple as you think. You actually closed at profit. Congrats!
  • #254
  • Edited 3:39am Nov 9, 2013 3:23am | Edited 3:39am
Quoting Samer1970
{quote} WHY ? yes this the question, the answer might be.... the brokers created the stop loss to make the small traders like you and me to loose thier money by the idea of "PROTECT YOUR ACCOUNT " I DO BELIEVE THAT THE HUGE FIRMS SUCH BANKS HAVE SYSTEMS WORKING FOR FOREX AND STOCKS WITHOUT ANY SINGLE STOP LOSS ON ANY TRADE... THEY JUST OPEN THE TRADE AND KEEP IT, THEN THEY MAKE HEDGING AND SO ON, WHY ? BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE THAN 50% SAFETY OF THEIR ACCOUNTS BOOKED TO PROTECT THE OPEN TRADES.... I WAS TRADING STOCKS BEFORE LONG ..LONG TIME AND IN...
This way of thinking is wrong and your post is nonsense. The brokers don't want you to use a stop loss. It would take forever to lose your account by placing trades with a stop loss and a conservative max loss, such as 2% per trade. Without a stop loss they will have your account in no time. Unless you trade super small position sizes to survive a margin-call-sized drawdown. If your position sizes are that small you might as well go buy bonds and save yourself time and stress. You also won't get trapped in a drawdown that takes years to overcome by investing in fixed return instruments.

The flaw in your mentality is that you don't realize that unrealized loss and realized loss is the same. Unrealized loss is actually worse because you have less available margin to attack other opportunities.
  • #255
  • Edited 4:20pm Nov 9, 2013 3:39am | Edited 4:20pm
Quoting Samer1970
here is my swap live value for the opened trades from yesterday, on daily basis, my account is well protected by 15$ to 25$ ,,, yes this vakue is small, but do not forget that my account is micro, that is my lots are factor of 0.01 so by simple math yes math... {image} i will assume 21$ daily swap in average income to my account as per the ssii rules, then if i have 3 floating loss trades of size 0.01 lot each for example then 3*0.01 lot = 0.03 lot = 0.3$ ..................................correct me if i am wrong then 21/0.3 = 210/3 = 70...
This is another trap inexperienced traders fall into. The amount of swap/interest you receive is small in comparison to value per pip of movement. The amount of swap you receive obviously depends on the pair you are trading and broker, but it's always less than 1 pip. Now figure out how long it would take to recover from a 2,000 pip (or more) drawdown. Which will surely happen if you trade without a stop loss.

I don't know about you, but I would be very disappointed if I traded profitably for some time and then lost it all in a blink of the eye.

Learn to trade with a stop loss and you will be free.
  • #256
  • Nov 9, 2013 5:22am Nov 9, 2013 5:22am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
You also won't get trapped in a drawdown that takes years to overcome by investing in fixed return instruments.
How come you are so good at predicting how long it takes for drawdowns to recover ? If you are that good at predicting the market, how come you are unable to make money from it, that you have to peddle your website here ?
  • #257
  • Nov 9, 2013 8:55am Nov 9, 2013 8:55am
Quoting dare123
{quote} 78 pips today on EU without exposing my account to external forces of the market.I am in control!!!
Dare123 Hi, I'm also trying to it Find a strategy without SL, think Dare123 she could put here is written as his strategy, because if does not put its own strategy here, as other traders you want they can share yours? Or even give suggestions about their strategies?
Write here as you do, so that we can all understand why you have opened this topic?

jvbs
Work very hard until you get there (excuse my english)
  • #258
  • Edited 4:22pm Nov 9, 2013 11:48am | Edited 4:22pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} How come you are so good at predicting how long it takes for drawdowns to recover ? If you are that good at predicting the market, how come you are unable to make money from it, that you have to peddle your website here ?
No one can predict the market correctly 100% of the time. Predicting the market correctly even 70% of the time (within a reasonable time frame) is nearly impossible. Let's assume each and every trade you make has an equal risk to reward ratio of 1:1. For this example let's use 100 pip take profit and 100 pip stop loss. You will need to predict (or estimate/speculate/guess, however you want to call it) correctly about 52% of the time in order to break even (due to spread). But guess what? You need to have a stop loss! Otherwise, you will have to increase your win rate dramatically from 52% in order to profit. Why? Because you have to compensate for those few trades that fall into the abyss of deep drawdown. If 2 or 3 trades account for -2000 pips of drawdown, you now have to win a higher percentage of trades (at 100 pip take profit) to make up for those open losses. As aforementioned, it's nearly impossible to predict with 70% accuracy. So you're basically putting yourself in a bad situation where even more trades may fall into the abyss and exponentially increase your total loss. It's a situation that will take years just to break even, or eek out a small profit if you're lucky. You may be able to avoid a large loss for some time without a stop loss, but you are just delaying the inevitable.

So that's why you use a stop loss. Because you cannot correctly predict the market 100% of the time. And lets say you could predict it correctly 99% of the time, you can't let that 1 trade out of 100 kill all the profits of the 99 good trades. There's good money to be made in trading, but it requires that you learn how to take losses the same way as you take profit. There's no way around it.

Does this make sense to you now?

As for my website, it's not an attempt to peddle or compensate for a lack of success in trading. I do okay in my trading, not that it should be of any concern to you. I can also assure you that the website does not generate much income. As you can see I am not selling anything on there. I have a website because I enjoy trading, I enjoy creating websites myself, and I find it prudent to try different things which may someday have higher potential (should I decide to take it further). By your logic one should stop trying new things because they have found success in one thing. That sounds like something a foolish person would say, if you ask me.
  • #259
  • Nov 9, 2013 12:21pm Nov 9, 2013 12:21pm
Quoting jvbs
{quote} Dare123 Hi, I'm also trying to it Find a strategy without SL, think Dare123 she could put here is written as his strategy, because if does not put its own strategy here, as other traders you want they can share yours? Or even give suggestions about their strategies? Write here as you do, so that we can all understand why you have opened this topic? jvbs
My suggestion is to learn how to trade with a stop loss. See my previous post as to the reasons why. The problem most people have is that their expectations are unrealistic. There are people on here that believe they can make 50% return every month. That is not going to happen long-term - especially without a stop loss. You are extraordinary if you can average a monthly profit (including open losses) for at least 1 year. If you can average 5% monthly (including open losses) you are in elite company.
  • #260
  • Nov 9, 2013 12:27pm Nov 9, 2013 12:27pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
{quote} No one can predict the market correctly 100% of the time. Predicting the market correctly even 70% of the time (within a reasonable time frame) is nearly impossible.
Yet you are able to predict with great accuracy the market will make a multi-year move against the other guy. Maybe you want to ask him what bet he is making. Then you take an opposite bet. It will be an easier way to make money than your 123 system.
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