What do you think about 300-500% annual profit? | Forex Factory

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What do you think about 300-500% annual profit?

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 26, 2013 11:22am Oct 26, 2013 11:22am
Hi all!One experience trader said me he had achieved consistly 300-500% profit per year!But I think it's impossible because the most sucessful traders in the world only gain 20-30% per year for 20 years!How do you guys think about this thing?
  • #2
  • Oct 26, 2013 11:26am Oct 26, 2013 11:26am
Doesn't matter what people say ... Concentrate on your own trading and try to do your best.

BTW, everything is possible ...
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #3
  • Oct 26, 2013 12:24pm Oct 26, 2013 12:24pm
let's reverse engineer the 500% .
if the trader achieves monthly profit and compounds then how many trades and what profit factor should it have?

1. 12 months for a year . the first month starts with 0 gains.
if compounded then we should have the 12 root of 5.that means 1.14 and translated to monthly results is 14%.
2. profit factor should be at least 1.7 in order to be stable.
3. based on this things we can estimate the number of trades that the trader should have in order to reach the desired objective.
loss=profit/1.7. profit - loss=16% > loss=22% and profit = 37% . number of trades= (loss+profit)/risk per trade
if it is high winrate you go with 2% . if it is high reward /risk you go with 1%.
so at 2% you are going to need (22+37)/2 -> 30 trades

so if you can get 30 trades per month at 70% winrate and reward/risk=0.7 you should be able to achieve 500% per year.
  • #4
  • Oct 26, 2013 12:42pm Oct 26, 2013 12:42pm
Quoting deltatrade
let's reverse engineer the 500% . if the trader achieves monthly profit and compounds then how many trades and what profit factor should it have? 1. 12 months for a year . the first month starts with 0 gains. if compounded then we should have the 12 root of 5.that means 1.14 and translated to monthly results is 14%. 2. profit factor should be at least 1.7 in order to be stable. 3. based on this things we can estimate the number of trades that the trader should have in order to reach the desired objective. loss=profit/1.7....
Do u made a mistake?It should be 500/12=40,17% profit per month!
  • #5
  • Oct 26, 2013 12:59pm Oct 26, 2013 12:59pm
Quoting kaka_ht
{quote} Do u made a mistake?It should be 500/12=40,17% profit per month!
no. if you have a winning trading system you compound each month. therefore it is not 500/12 it is the 12 root of 5=1.143
1.143 ^12=4.97
each month you calculate the risk based off the previsious month .
it is way better this way.
  • #6
  • Oct 26, 2013 1:57pm Oct 26, 2013 1:57pm
Check out how many on this list are making those types of returns.

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/funds/currency/
  • #7
  • Oct 26, 2013 1:59pm Oct 26, 2013 1:59pm
Quoting kaka_ht
Hi all!One experience trader said me he had achieved consistly 300-500% profit per year!But I think it's impossible because the most sucessful traders in the world only gain 20-30% per year for 20 years!How do you guys think about this thing?

It is possible if you are experienced, disciplined, take great RR trades, cut losers short etc.

Consider this, If you Have a 1k account and make a nice 100 pips each week trading with .1 lots, even if your goal was a simple 25 pips on 4 trades (2 50 pip trades) or (1 100 pip trade), you have made 10% of said account,
so as the account grows, your goal of 25 pips does not need to, yet your risk would need to increase gradually to maintain the desired % return structure.

The 20-30% per year is true of INSTITUTIONAL traders and large cap specs, yet it is with good reason.

If you are trading multiple millions of dollars or even say 10 standard lots at a clip you are taking on enormous risk at any given trade,
yet your gains are staggering!

So there is absolutely no need to shoot for 300 to 500 % per year.

Also, I don't recommend any one with a 1k account trade .1 lots. It should be .01 lots to start especially if you have little to no live trading experience, any real system technically, or any rationale and understanding of fundamentals and lastly how to trade news.

EDIT: and I should add that for any reasonable trader, the demand to perform at 300-500% each year will eventually take it's toll and you WILL have

a time that you lose. Everyone does. No one is perfect - nor is the market readable with a crystal ball.


So, be realistic as Ferru said.


Quoting FerruFx
Doesn't matter what people say ... Concentrate on your own trading and try to do your best.

Quoting FerruFx


BTW, everything is possible ...


XAU-XAG/USD_Gold n Silver Trader's Thread = Technicals, Fundamentals & News
  • #8
  • Oct 26, 2013 2:19pm Oct 26, 2013 2:19pm
Quoting kaka_ht
Hi all!One experience trader said me he had achieved consistly 300-500% profit per year!But I think it's impossible because the most sucessful traders in the world only gain 20-30% per year for 20 years!How do you guys think about this thing?
possible but only for few imo.
it is what I aim for, but even the 20-30% a year is a good profit. all depends on time you spend at fx, your system, mm, risk and many more
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #9
  • Oct 26, 2013 2:21pm Oct 26, 2013 2:21pm
Quoting Dopey
Check out how many on this list are making those types of returns. http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/funds/currency/
after seeing few of the funds I must say I'd rather to invest in stock indices or even keep my money in bank then give my money for them
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #10
  • Oct 26, 2013 9:39pm Oct 26, 2013 9:39pm
Quoting Eur Usd
{quote} after seeing few of the funds I must say I'd rather to invest in stock indices or even keep my money in bank then give my money for them
I think so like you!
  • #11
  • Oct 27, 2013 11:15am Oct 27, 2013 11:15am
Quoting deltatrade
{quote} no. if you have a winning trading system you compound each month. therefore it is not 500/12 it is the 12 root of 5=1.143 1.143 ^12=4.97 each month you calculate the risk based off the previsious month . it is way better this way.
Hi delta!I don't really so much the way you calculate!Can u explain more clearly?
  • #12
  • Oct 27, 2013 11:35am Oct 27, 2013 11:35am
Quoting kaka_ht
{quote} Hi delta!I don't really so much the way you calculate!Can u explain more clearly?
10% means that amount=1.1* initial capital.
you start with 2000 usd account.
you can manage 10% monthly and you risk per trade 2% of 2000 usd= 40 usd
end of month nr 1. you will have 2000usd*1.1=2200 usd
begining of the month 2 you will have 2200 and you risk 2% of the new amount 44 usd per trade
end of month 2 you will have 2200*1.1=2420 usd in the account
begining of month 3 you will start with 2420 and you will have 48 usd per trade risked.
end of month 3 you will end with 2420*1.1=2662 usd.

so if you start with amount x with 10% per month and you want to know how much money you're going to have at month n all you have to do is y=1.1^n*x.
so at end of month 12 with 10% and starting account of 2000 usd you will have y=2000*1.1^12=2000*3.13=6276
  • #13
  • Oct 27, 2013 11:56am Oct 27, 2013 11:56am
Quoting FerruFx
Doesn't matter what people say ... Concentrate on your own trading and try to do your best. BTW, everything is possible ...
Very well said.

Btw, the number deltatrade arrived at seems about right. 300% to 500% yearly return should be possible by compounding from 12.3 to 16.2% monthly return (14.25% avg).
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #14
  • Oct 27, 2013 5:13pm Oct 27, 2013 5:13pm
300-500% is annual is very possible. Super hard to handle the psyche if one is new to trading though. From my experience, trading for losses kills the compounding interest machine (obviously). I try to focus on just making positive #'s. No averaging losers, keep the wins running as long as possible, never let a winner turn negative.
  • #15
  • Oct 27, 2013 11:27pm Oct 27, 2013 11:27pm
the only accounts i've seen that have this type of return,

  1. use small lot size (equates to lunch money)
  2. or, use demo (equates to fantasy)
  3. or, take too much risk (equates to high risk of/inevitable ruin)


i'm yet to see a "high return" account (>150%pa) that doesnt demonstrate at least one of these criteria

in fact i've only ever seen one public account at FF that impressed me (ie. wasnt doing any of the 3 dot points), it's @ 80% or so this year

  • #16
  • Oct 28, 2013 3:06am Oct 28, 2013 3:06am
Quoting kaka_ht
Hi all!One experience trader said me he had achieved consistly 300-500% profit per year!But I think it's impossible because the most sucessful traders in the world only gain 20-30% per year for 20 years!How do you guys think about this thing?
Did he show you his Profit and Loss statements? Has he been achieving the same level of return for many years?

To get 300 to 500 percent return annually, you have to trade large position size (risk maybe like 10 to 50 percent or more of your account size a trade), take a lot of trades. Does doing those sound like what a successful trader might do to you?
'For the market to work, it needs people who think that they can beat it.'
  • #17
  • Oct 28, 2013 3:51am Oct 28, 2013 3:51am
example of good profits: http://www.forexfactory.com/wuza#75
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #18
  • Oct 28, 2013 4:58am Oct 28, 2013 4:58am
i ever feel that i can do 2% a day, when i trade 5 cent a pip ,but that also include the obligation to increase the lot size,
and when i reach $0.4 a pip, my mentality is broke down.
and it is down hill after that.

my suggestion is, maintain comfortable trading size,
  • #19
  • Oct 28, 2013 5:01am Oct 28, 2013 5:01am
how about 1000% in 2 weeks? i've seen this from a guy. He also could made 100K to 1 Milion in 5 days.
  • #20
  • Oct 28, 2013 5:22am Oct 28, 2013 5:22am
Quoting jampang
how about 1000% in 2 weeks? i've seen this from a guy. He also could made 100K to 1 Milion in 5 days.
it is possible, but as fast as he earns it as fast he may lose - too risky for me
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
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