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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #181
  • Oct 24, 2013 8:21pm Oct 24, 2013 8:21pm
That's quite a blanket statement, Chuck. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
There's always money in the banana stand.
  • #182
  • Oct 24, 2013 9:47pm Oct 24, 2013 9:47pm
Hey, just trying to help. If one wishes to trade without a stop, go for it. There is more than one way to skin a cut, but in every case you should watch your fingers. I stand by my statement and say all trades should have a hard stop, as trades are about risk:reward.
  • #183
  • Oct 24, 2013 11:08pm Oct 24, 2013 11:08pm
after we buy, we will sell, by closing that order, or create another sell order
what people called as hedge in the same currency pair, may expecting the equity goes up, but the floating will be negative, because a perfect hedge result is 0
the purpose of that 'hedge' is to give temporary equity boost, for good report.
as for stop loss, there is always stop loss , put by our broker, called margin call, because, if not, it will not only your loss, but also their loss, maybe broker will gives loan, but it also have limit, and leave us in deeper problem.

if we still think the trade will goes your way at current sl level, is is a bad trade anyway.
  • #184
  • Oct 31, 2013 11:46pm Oct 31, 2013 11:46pm
Quoting XTrade
There are times trading with no stop is worthwhile or just simply faster. In the first instance, if you are entering a trade with the goal of more than 500 but let's say 1000 pips meaning a move from 1.0000 to 1.1000 you should be ready and willing to take a loss (depending on how good the setup is) of at least 300 pips. All pairs have daily averages even a pair with high volatility like cable will usually move a MAXIMUM of 200 pips (and that's on the high side) more like 150+ on a great, news / event driven day and usually pairs do not move 100+...

Very well explained XTrade. Like.
Happy trading.
  • #185
  • Nov 1, 2013 3:04am Nov 1, 2013 3:04am
hi
i am trading without any stop loss at all
my strategy called ssii - here in ff
i saw many times my stop loss is being hunted many times.
i saw many cases where the market was really sleeping, and suddenly the bar line of that candle is moving without any reason for that pair 300 pips to catch some stop losses for many trades, then the bar line goes to the price original areas....

SO I DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT IT IS EVER SAID " STOP LOSS WILL PROTECT YOUR ACCOUNT "

I DO NOT BELIEVE IN "RUN YOUR WINNINGS AND CUT SHORT YOUR LOSSES "

THESE WORDS ARE MADE BY THE ........ TO HUNT OUR TRADES DOWN..
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #186
  • Nov 1, 2013 3:08am Nov 1, 2013 3:08am
Quoting Gwan
after we buy, we will sell, by closing that order, or create another sell order what people called as hedge in the same currency pair, may expecting the equity goes up, but the floating will be negative, because a perfect hedge result is 0 the purpose of that 'hedge' is to give temporary equity boost, for good report. as for stop loss, there is always stop loss , put by our broker, called margin call, because, if not, it will not only your loss, but also their loss, maybe broker will gives loan, but it also have limit, and leave us in deeper problem....

MY FRIEND, there is not something called perfect hedging in the same pair, this is called waiting your death of your trade.
in my strategy ssii i have explained in several locations that hedging is something created by the ..... to fool us and to make us loose our trades, however, there is uneven hedging for the same pair by itself, at which this will cause you some -ve floating loss but on the other hand if you play it failry with your MM , then it will return against the ........ and comes to your sake. with a profit.
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #187
  • Nov 1, 2013 9:12am Nov 1, 2013 9:12am
Trading without a stoploss has pro's and con's. It works for some very successful professional traders that I know of. Search for Karen the Super Trader on tastytrade, where Tom Sosnoff interviews Karen and you'll find that she manages close to 200 million dollars in two accounts and never uses stoplosses (which she say she hates! ;^) She watches the market like a hawk and rolls out her positions if they get close to being unprofitable. She survived the flash crash of a couple of years ago with this technique, so hard to say that it doesn't work! ;^D BUT she is a PRO, managing her own funds!

Few retail traders can survive without stoplosses, and one of the greatest pit traders, William Greenspan, who had a record of 15 months of profitability, always used stoplosses and suggested that all retail traders should do the same. He also said that he hunted stops, so uhmmmm.... Every professional is looking for an area with lots of one-sided stops! ;^D

The real secret to limiting your losses is to have an effective way of doing it, whether it's hedging or stoplosses, or watching the market like a hawk and being able to cut your losses. I would never personally trade without stoplosses unless I had a way of hedging that I was comfortable with. I prefer small, tight stoplosses that do not concern me if they get hit and a strategy that allows me to get to BE as quickly as possible. Once the market has moved far enough in one direction, it will reverse. Period. That's where I prefer to place my small bet.

To reach BE is a successful trade for me, because it keeps me in the game with the least amount of stress! But this approach requires very precise entries, which requires lots of years of experience. It's really like, well, I hate to say it, but...gambling, or playing the lottery. I want a $5 stoploss for a $500 return, so I'm not going to get it very often. But that's okay with me. I'm not trading for a living, and I personally hate the pressure of having the market move against me more than I'm comfortable with losing. Hey, it's better odds than playing the lottery! ;^D

Instead of telling someone how awful it is not to use stoplosses, and how they're going to blow their account, why not just wish them well with their new strategy and see if it works out for them? As far as newbies getting sucked into a losing strategy, well, if they get sucked in that easily, they'll get sucked in by some other dangerous, but appealing method....Martingales, or MA crosses, or something. They'll just have to learn what works for them, anyway, just like I did, and probably blow an account or two, just like I did! Sad, but unfortunately true, you can't give away wisdom, until someone is ready to learn it! ;^D
The mind thinks, the heart knows...
  • #188
  • Nov 1, 2013 11:34am Nov 1, 2013 11:34am
  •  denozi
  • | Joined Aug 2012 | Status: trade with Patient & Discipline | 82 Posts
Hi all,

I am one of the the stupid trader with no STOP LOSS at all, i have trading for about two years and i do really hate it, even narrow or large stop loss price will surely pick it up. I feel now since couple month elegance trading without it. i am happy with no stop loss. I have learned a very simple way to tarde from also stupid fiend, he has been trading for years without STOP LOSS and he never losses for one year. Yeahh..i like it
I am a new 2 Forex- Your help would be greatly appreciated
  • #189
  • Nov 1, 2013 12:34pm Nov 1, 2013 12:34pm
Quoting denozi
I have learned a very simple way to tarde from also stupid fiend, he has been trading for years without STOP LOSS and he never losses for one year. Yeahh..i like it
I doubt anyone here can trade without a stop loss and not have a losing year (including unrealized trades). Eventually they will have a losing year. Worst (and saddest) of all, that one big loss will wipe out all previous gains.
  • #190
  • Nov 1, 2013 3:52pm Nov 1, 2013 3:52pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
{quote} I doubt anyone here can trade without a stop loss and not have a losing year (including unrealized trades). Eventually they will have a losing year. Worst (and saddest) of all, that one big loss will wipe out all previous gains.
hi
refer to ssii here in ff and you will see that i am trading with a success of 97% without stop loss

simple strategy/samer00000

can any one tell me what is this ??

why the line of the candle gone crazy to south in one hour and returned back while the market is going to close for weekend ? why ?

this is a good example for stop loss hunting........


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 56 KB

http://www.forexfactory.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1304513&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1383339004
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #191
  • Nov 1, 2013 8:08pm Nov 1, 2013 8:08pm
Quoting Samer1970
{quote} hi refer to ssii here in ff and you will see that i am trading with a success of 97% without stop loss simple strategy/samer00000 can any one tell me what is this ?? why the line of the candle gone crazy to south in one hour and returned back while the market is going to close for weekend ? why ? this is a good example for stop loss hunting........ Attached Image (click to enlarge) {image} http://www.forexfactory.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1304513&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1383339004...
It must be your crazy broker widening spreads before market closes. Find new one. No spike on other charts/feeds.

While you might get around the problem with the broker by removing stops around certain times, it is not ideal and very risky if the move turns out to be genuine.
  • #192
  • Nov 3, 2013 6:33am Nov 3, 2013 6:33am
Trading without a stop loss is perfectly fine if you have the right technique. For instance Jimmy Balodimas was described by Jack Schwager as a successful trader who didn't use stops.

For the beginners thinking that not using stops is suicidal, consider this: Buying at 10 and Stopping at 5 is to guarantee buying high at 10 and selling low at 5. So the only one who is suicidal are those who likes to make this guarantee. When you guarantee a profit for the market, the market will take it. It would not be an efficient market if it didn't do that.
  • #193
  • Nov 4, 2013 6:00am Nov 4, 2013 6:00am
Watch my account closely as i trade without sl but with proper risk management.
Trading is something special.
  • #194
  • Nov 4, 2013 6:41am Nov 4, 2013 6:41am
See my join date. I have been trading without stop loss all this time. Still here. Very hard way to commit suicide, this. Of course if ALL you do is lose the stop loss, you may be in trouble, but if you are finding it difficult to make money with stop losses, Try losing them and go small, until you figure out the way to win without them.
conventional wisdom is not everything it is cracked up to be.

Don't believe me if you do not want to.
See you next year, (if you're still around..)
  • #195
  • Nov 4, 2013 7:29am Nov 4, 2013 7:29am
Trading without SL is not advisable.

If you want to control risk and apply money management, SL is an absolute necessity. How would you do otherwise if you are unable to know what's your risk on each and every trade?

Think of it this way, if you would be managing 1'000'000 USD, and make a living from this account, would you trade without a stop loss and risk to get wiped out on some unexpected events of any scale? Because it is easy to advice other traders to go without SL when you show one month old trading results trading micro lots...

The only way I see trading without SL possible is on some 'investing' strategies, with many unleveraged trades diversified across multiple uncorrelated assets in your portfolio. But if you are day trading, swing trading, or anything like that you HAVE to put SL. Think of unpredictable events like a central bank interventions (you don't have to think very far, look at SNB putting a floor on EUR/CHF and drive it up 1'000 pips in one day in 2011), earthquakes, wars, etc... Yes maybe you will survive one month, maybe one year, but sooner or later you are going to loose all your money. That's not trading, that's gambling...

But if you are OK with risking all your hard earn money, then trade without SL, and I am wishing you good luck with that.
Enter Signature
  • #196
  • Nov 4, 2013 8:15am Nov 4, 2013 8:15am
It is argument about nothing. Take profit is a stop loss. Otherwise, you should hold a positive trade either to 0 or infinity.
  • #197
  • Nov 4, 2013 9:05am Nov 4, 2013 9:05am
Quoting Samer1970
hi i am trading without any stop loss at all my strategy called ssii - here in ff i saw many times my stop loss is being hunted many times. i saw many cases where the market was really sleeping, and suddenly the bar line of that candle is moving without any reason for that pair 300 pips to catch some stop losses for many trades, then the bar line goes to the price original areas.... SO I DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT IT IS EVER SAID \" STOP LOSS WILL PROTECT YOUR ACCOUNT \" I DO NOT BELIEVE IN \"RUN YOUR WINNINGS AND CUT SHORT YOUR LOSSES \" THESE WORDS ARE...
Very much true Samer. I have seen price moving 600 /700 pips opposite of my trade and kicking me out of the trade and then I see that coming back again which could have been profitable!
  • #198
  • Nov 4, 2013 10:00am Nov 4, 2013 10:00am
To me the problem is not the stop loss itself, but the reason why you are not using one.

To start off with, I don't care for hard physical stop losses, whether it is set on your order or in your head and you are confident you will be in front of the screen then the two are equal enough.

The most concerning part about not having a stop loss is that you are entering a trade without knowing when to call it a day. If you enter a trade without saying to yourself that if price does X then I know I have made the wrong decision then you are just begging to let your losers run and wipe out your account because you are now trading on hope and the market does not care for your hopes or dreams.

A common argument is "I want to give the market room to breathe", well decide how much room you want to give it and then set your SL there.

Another thing I could never understand is all over this forum it is preached use good MM, good MM is the key. I believe it is important too, so please tell me how do you correctly calculate how many lots to trade without a SL? How can you risk 2%, 10%, 50% of your account when you don't know how far you are willing to let it go against you? Do you use 1 lot, 2 lots, 20 lots, pick a random number out of a hat?

Make no mistake, you can not set a stop loss based on what you want the market to do, if you don't set a SL with the right reasons then it will work against you more times then not.....but that is a whole other story.

Whether you set a stop loss on your actual order or whether you have one set in your mind, the important thing is that you are very clear on your exit strategy.
  • #199
  • Edited 11:32am Nov 4, 2013 10:58am | Edited 11:32am
Quoting RPropShop
But if you are OK with risking all your hard earn money, then trade without SL, and I am wishing you good luck with that.
Thanks for your wish. A 1000 pip move against me can't take me out. When it comes to successful trading for me, it's all technique, technique, technique. I am not convinced anyone even slightly experienced would risk it all. Real trading isn't like casino, you know ? It's more than just putting down a bet. You have to work it, just like if you were running a market stall buying and selling fruit and vegetables. That would be real trading. If you are putting down bets casino style, that's gambling. In that case, stop losses will only delay the inevitable.

Only recently I was formulating strategies to counter 5000 pips moves. If they only move 1000 pips, then I have been unnecessarily cautious. The largest recent move against me was 800 pips. Now I am in counter attack mode since the market condition allows it.
  • #200
  • Nov 4, 2013 2:17pm Nov 4, 2013 2:17pm
Quoting Kyle_Vee
The most concerning part about not having a stop loss is that you are entering a trade without knowing when to call it a day. If you enter a trade without saying to yourself that if price does X then I know I have made the wrong decision then you are just begging to let your losers run and wipe out your account because you are now trading on hope and the market does not care for your hopes or dreams..

This assumes that everyone only trades directionally and for a finite amount of time, as in from Point A to Point B and that's it.
There's always money in the banana stand.
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