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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #128,021
  • Oct 11, 2013 12:46am Oct 11, 2013 12:46am
Quoting dan89
{quote} Hey mate, thanks for the kind words, really appreciate it Dude I cant believe you remembered one of my post, I thought all my posts went un noticed hence i dont really post that many charts or my setups etc. Yeah I used to get sooo frustrated and just pissed off that I couldnt trade profitably AT ALL. Mike knows, I used to be member of the PF and he couldnt sense it in my posts over there But its only been one month live so far, and this month seems to be going well for the time being backtesting has been very good though...
  • #128,022
  • Oct 11, 2013 1:24am Oct 11, 2013 1:24am
Thanks for the replies guys, apprecaite it

btw in that post you quoted I was meant to type Mike could sense it in my posts, not couldnt , sorry for the mistake Mike and others.

Take care
Dan
  • #128,023
  • Oct 11, 2013 2:07am Oct 11, 2013 2:07am
Hi
I analyse charts of this thread. I see, James16 and other Traders use in his charts EMA 150 and EMA 365 on Weekly, Daily, H4, H1 time frames simultaneously. Please explain me, for example, why you don`t use EMA or SMA 200 on Daily charts ? Why these EMA 150 and 365 are so miraculous ? Why you don`t use, for example, EMA 8 and EMA 21 on Daily chart ? Thank you in advance.
  • #128,024
  • Oct 11, 2013 4:57am Oct 11, 2013 4:57am
Quoting Friend1975
Hi I analyse charts of this thread. I see, James16 and other Traders use in his charts EMA 150 and EMA 365 on Weekly, Daily, H4, H1 time frames simultaneously. Please explain me, for example, why you don`t use EMA or SMA 200 on Daily charts ? Why these EMA 150 and 365 are so miraculous ? Why you don`t use, for example, EMA 8 and EMA 21 on Daily chart ? Thank you in advance.
James found these levels worked for him. They are not "magical" since you cannot use them to blindly take a trade simply because price is at one of those moving averages. You have to use them as PART of a DECISION MAKING process-a discretionary process- where these tools merely aid YOUR decision making. When price reaches these indicators what does it mean? Confluence etc? What will you do at these points ? What else is price doing?
You clearly have to read from the beginning couple of hundred posts or so, where these matters are discussed in detail. Then come back here for further clarification.
Good luck.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #128,025
  • Oct 11, 2013 5:46am Oct 11, 2013 5:46am
A trade i am in...


Jibson


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Still trying to get to meet myself...
  • #128,026
  • Oct 11, 2013 5:51am Oct 11, 2013 5:51am
Quoting jibson007
{quote} Dan just hold on to Mike's handle i am right behind you. I guess magestic too. Its painful how the market deals with newbie with little knowledge, gives streak of trade losses. A growing account is a symptom of sound market knowledge. Trying to treat symptoms in med. diagnosis don't work but treating the cause of an ailment solves the problem fast. If one concentrate on understanding how the system market system works, a consistent profit taking with adequate discipline will automatically follow because then you know the reseason you are...
All true. Mike is a great person. He gave a hint and inspired lot of people here, and of course we can called him true Jim's successor.
If not up, then down, otherwise sideways :-)
  • #128,027
  • Oct 11, 2013 5:56am Oct 11, 2013 5:56am
Quoting jibson007
A trade i am in... Jibson {image}{image}
WOW, you cought a runner. For me personally the space between touches of TL you draw is just too big, thats why I pass.
If not up, then down, otherwise sideways :-)
  • #128,028
  • Oct 11, 2013 7:12am Oct 11, 2013 7:12am
Quoting jibson007
A trade i am in... Jibson {image}{image}
Great trade Jibson. I was also looking that pair on the 4h, but missed it. It is interesting how good previous wedge trendline is acting as support. As I said.. if I would see it right time, I would take it

Mike, what do you think about this setup?
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  • #128,029
  • Oct 11, 2013 12:21pm Oct 11, 2013 12:21pm
Here was an email I sent out to the group yesterday that I want to post here also. I would love to also hear NON member ideas of what they want to see on our guest side, or what they hope to see when they join. All input is good input. Please PM me or email me with anything you've got! We are very excited about the next phase of the group


Well I know you guys have heard us say it many times, but like all things
James has done here we do things slowly and try to make sure we get them
right along the way and at the right time.

The new site as well as the return of Mr.James16 himself is almost here(not
almost like we have said before, but literally around the corner).

James being away for the last year or so was much needed for him. For his
health and sanity. After 20 hour days 7 days a week(I can attest to this
believe me), burn out had set in and he just needed some time to recharge
the old batteries(yeah I said it old LOL). The new site will help relieve
those 20 hr 7days a week, and prevent that burn out from setting in. No one
wants to be back more than James, I promise you guys that as I never lost
touch with him over this period of time but he just needed to recharge his
battery. James is excited about many things including bringing a formal
real estate section to the site as well as a great charity section. We
plan to donate a certain percentage of what the site makes to charities and
communities close to our members hearts. These are part of the goals of
the new site . To change lives for the better and not just financially.

With that said James and myself are knee deep in it now and we would like
to get some feedback from you all as we are in the process of rolling out
the new site.

Note: This process will be an evolution even as we release the new site.
We expect bumps along the way and this will be ongoing as we get things the
way we want for ourselves and more importantly for you all in this next
phase of the group.

What we are asking is for some more input now while we are in the process
of building the site. We want any and ALL(no matter how crazy you think
the idea is) to be sent. We will of course not be able to use all your
suggestions but we GREATLY want to hear them as always. As we build the
new site we want to know what are things YOU guys want to see. What have
been things you wish you had? Tools? Sections? Layout? ANYTHING. We
will try to integrate them into the site either now or later on as we go.
ANYTHING GOES NO IDEA IS SILLY.

As always I know I can speak for James in saying that this has been a wild
ride. An unexpected one in many ways but truly an awesome one. We
appreciate all of you and we continue to hope to prove to you that we are
committed to continuing to making this the BEST site out there it can be
with the best information. You all are integral in that as we truly have
the best members(family) out there. Thank you for sticking with us and we
are REALLY excited for the next step in the James16 group journey with you
all.

Look forward to hearing your comments!
Mike
  • #128,030
  • Oct 11, 2013 12:33pm Oct 11, 2013 12:33pm
Quoting mbqb11
Here was an email I sent out to the group yesterday that I want to post here also. I would love to also hear NON member ideas of what they want to see on our guest side, or what they hope to see when they join. All input is good input. Please PM me or email me with anything you've got
You really wanna win the record of received PM per day and saturate FF servers

Excellent !!!!
Now, to our keyboard
Slow & steady
  • #128,031
  • Oct 11, 2013 1:39pm Oct 11, 2013 1:39pm
Quoting dan89
{quote} Hey Mike thanks for the kind words mate On edge is the perfect way to describe how I used to be, plus I would constantly look at the lower TF (<H1), which didnt help at all Now it seems I can comfortably go a whole month only taking 2-3 trades. One issue I still have is looking at setups that I have already exited and seeing how price has continued in 'my' direction - thinking 'hmm I could of made so much more if I just help on, did not reduce stop so early etc etc. Here is an updated chart showing price continuing to run up....
Dan
That first break of the Wedge -why didn't it take off?
Was it not close enough to the end of the wedge or was there resistance too close to the first break?
Stops - I think Mike posted somewhere about going to break even and using support/resistance etc.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #128,032
  • Oct 11, 2013 4:28pm Oct 11, 2013 4:28pm
Quoting mbqb11
Here was an email I sent out to the group yesterday that I want to post here also. I would love to also hear NON member ideas of what they want to see on our guest side, or what they hope to see when they join. All input is good input. Please PM me or email me with anything you've got! We are very excited about the next phase of the group Well I know you guys have heard us say it many times, but like all things James has done here we do things slowly and try to make sure we get them right along the way and at the right time. The new site as well...
Heartwarming!

Mike - I really thank you for all the effort you put into the site / FF thread.
Your videos and posts are mindblowing. (I'm still watching them!)

You asked for some notices - here they go:
- I would love to see some more Order Flow aspect. After learning OF for month I actually know now, why many of my trades didn't work, and the others did. I think it would be great to bring it down to a deeper level - im sure there are some who would like to see how the engine works --> (However as I know Ghous is going to fill this leak )
- I also missed the low time-frame trades. (From james also.) I was able to spend some weeks on the lower TFs and I noticed things work there much different. You might want to consider making some low TF videos, or tell people, why those pattern are not reliable on lower TF...
- Future / Stocks games

Honestly thats all - which means you guys made a VERY good job. (I think i'm good at spotting holes in a business / idea, but I don't see much there.) You guys provide something that is actually packed and ready for delivery. All we need to do is to take things step by step and with effort be profitable.

Wishes you the best:
Stephen
It's all psychology...
  • #128,033
  • Oct 12, 2013 3:56am Oct 12, 2013 3:56am
Quoting dan89
{quote} Hey Mike thanks for the kind words mate On edge is the perfect way to describe how I used to be, plus I would constantly look at the lower TF (<H1), which didnt help at all Now it seems I can comfortably go a whole month only taking 2-3 trades. One issue I still have is looking at setups that I have already exited and seeing how price has continued in 'my' direction - thinking 'hmm I could of made so much more if I just help on, did not reduce stop so early etc etc. Here is an updated chart showing price continuing to run up....
Its not a habit. Its instinct.

We are all in this for the money and no matter how hard we try it always "feels" to get out of a trade when it was worth for more, or hang on to a setup when it was worth for less.

In the end, its natural to feel bad because of the illusion of the gap we see between how we are performing and how we should have been performing (on a trade by trade basis). I say its an illusion because we are making our decisions in real time with limited information and "feeling" afterwards in hindsight with the complete information. With limited information you can only "guestimate", and "anticipate". This is where risk comes into the equation. To mitigate it, and to keep things manageable we need general guidelines and consistent systems.

There is no trade management method or a system that will allow you to consistently munch on the bulk of the pips offered by each and every setup - or even most of the setups. This is because every setup is different, and the circumstances unique. Through trial and error and a lot of testing we eventually design our systems the way our personalities and trading approaches require. These will still, never be as good as to allow you to milk the markets that accurately most of the times.

The feeling of under achievement in the cases where you follow your trade plan (which is logical and consistent) and in hindsight can see how the result on the trade could have been better, is a direct result of misaligned expectations and the inability to see how real time visuals are so vastly different than looking at the same thing in hindsight.

The real deal for a trader is to always feel great when he has followed his trade plan and done everything exactly how it needed to be done based on the limited amounts of information available at the decision making node. The result on that one trade doesn't matter. It could be a winner, a loser or a breakeven. A trade is a winning trade (in most respects) if you nailed your trade management.

In the end it all comes to down whether you are still trading in the long term and that will depend not on worrying how to milk every trade to the max, but will depend entirely on how you can keep your cool and look beyond individual trade results' to work out the bigger picture built on the rules of probability and larger samples of bundled up trades.

Getting affected in any way by the result on your last 1, or "X" trades is one of the biggest reasons why people find themselves in vicious psychological spiral traps, losing streaks, or plain inconsistency.

That said, a huge congrats to you Dan for your improvements and developments. You're such a huge inspiration to many here.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #128,034
  • Oct 12, 2013 4:02am Oct 12, 2013 4:02am
Quoting LamerTrader
{quote} Heartwarming! Mike - I really thank you for all the effort you put into the site / FF thread. Your videos and posts are mindblowing. (I'm still watching them!) You asked for some notices - here they go: - I would love to see some more Order Flow aspect. After learning OF for month I actually know now, why many of my trades didn't work, and the others did. I think it would be great to bring it down to a deeper level - im sure there are some who would like to see how the engine works --> (However as I know Ghous is going to fill this leak...
I was trading order flow here without even consciously knowing about it until I dug deep into the order flow threads here at FF and other resources. I think the J16 group and the instructors here have a great way of drilling down the basics using all the order flow logics and reasoning without the technical jargon or explicitly going into the order flow concepts themselves. It has been important to ensure things were kept simple and digestible.

But I see the point your making. It could be helpful to know why the BUOB low needs to be protruding beyond the preceding swing low as opposed to just memorizing the concept. Only thing is, it can very easily get advanced for new people and since majority of our audience here is in that category I think at best we need to be touching only the very basics of order flow and market dynamics.



g.
I believe . . .
  • #128,035
  • Oct 12, 2013 4:10am Oct 12, 2013 4:10am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Dan That first break of the Wedge -why didn't it take off? Was it not close enough to the end of the wedge or was there resistance too close to the first break? Stops - I think Mike posted somewhere about going to break even and using support/resistance etc.
Hey mate, As do why the first break didnt take off, I dont really have an exact answer for that, but this does happen from time to time, decent patterns tend to take off at the first break, excellent patterns take off so fast you dont even get a chance for an entry some patterns like this one will walk the retested trendline before taking off. However whether a patterns blasts off from the first break or 2nd 3rd retest is irrelevant if you think about it, its where you make your entry, where you place your stop and when you move your stops to breakeven (which to be is important because I consider these to be 'free' trades- and who doesnt want a free trade )

Now depending on your entry criteria, If you wait for a PA bar like Mike does (which is probably the best way btw) for confirmation that there wouldnt be a trade all all on this pattern. This is NOT a bad thing, staying in the market for as long as possible doesnt mean that we will be more profitable. I sometimes wait for a PA bar or I touch trade, it really depends on the setup and how im feeling about it.

On this particular setup I was looking for a TT off the first retest of the trendline, now if I was at the charts at this point of would of absolutely taken the trade, and from looking at the chart I would of been stopped out at BE. Remember if your trading a TT your stops will be tight, otherwise it defeats the purpose of a TT (price should shoot off from the TT entry with very little drawdown). The entry I took was further up at the 97.47 level, which is alot riskier because its nowhere near the retest of the trendline pattern, but it was a clear PPZ. As Mike and James teaches we use PPZ as areas to manage a trade we are are currently in e.g. moving stops to breakeven, reducing risk, taking full or partial profits. Or we can use the area to take a trade from.

But yeah, Like you mentioned I nearly always look for an entry at or very near to the break and retest of the pattern. To me thats the whole purpose of pattern trading. Wow just looked at my post and im sorry for all the rambling, hope this helps mate

Take care
Dan
  • #128,036
  • Oct 12, 2013 4:47am Oct 12, 2013 4:47am
Quoting dan89
{quote} Hey mate, As do why the first break didnt take off, I dont really have an exact answer for that, but this does happen from time to time, decent patterns tend to take off at the first break, excellent patterns take off so fast you dont even get a chance for an entry some patterns like this one will walk the retested trendline before taking off. However whether a patterns blasts off from the first break or 2nd 3rd retest is irrelevant if you think about it, its where you make your entry, where you place your stop and when you move your...
Excellent post, as usual Dan. Your reply was very helpful. Many thanks.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #128,037
  • Oct 12, 2013 4:47am Oct 12, 2013 4:47am
Hi guys, how is the weekend going, hope we are doubling up for the coming week. Mike, Ghous this question am about to ask is suppose to be for next week but i guess i must be ahead of my schedule. When you say order flow what do you mean. Though i will not assume i don't know anything about it but i believe there is still a lot to it and having a good understanding of it might be the key to this sophisticated device. I have really being concentrating on the materials here @ jame16 but i am scared of digging too deep into other things as i dont want to risk any deviation from what i am presently learning. Pls where can i get useful information about the subject without any 'methodical fornication' in addition to the insight you are going to give. Thanx



Jibosn
Still trying to get to meet myself...
  • #128,038
  • Oct 12, 2013 7:21am Oct 12, 2013 7:21am
Quoting jibson007
Hi guys, how is the weekend going, hope we are doubling up for the coming week. Mike, Ghous this question am about to ask is suppose to be for next week but i guess i must be ahead of my schedule. When you say order flow what do you mean. Though i will not assume i don't know anything about it but i believe there is still a lot to it and having a good understanding of it might be the key to this sophisticated device. I have really being concentrating on the materials here @ jame16 but i am scared of digging too deep into other things as i dont want...
Hey Jibson,

Its the common notion that order flow trading has to be the key to the treasure box and the missing piece to the big puzzle of consistency and success in this business. Some of this is true. Yes, learning about order flow gives you an in depth understanding of market dynamics and helps you understand what's going on behind the bars, but where a lot of people go wrong is when they think they absolutely need it to be successful. You don't need to know about every technical detail about what happens when you push the accelerator on your car and why does that get the car moving, to be able to drive like a champ. Yes knowing that is always cool and good but its not a necessary condition to be able to drive.

Because this thread is meant to get get the newbies on track there is very little merit to going into order flow in depth because it is a HUGE thing in its own. Quite frankly I am no order flow expert myself as I just use a part of the order flow concepts for my trading, but I do know that if we start putting up order flow concepts here in the most explicit manner it will confuse many as well as distract them from the basic tools they need to be playing and practicing with.

If you know you need to be spotting your BEOBs and Strong bearish pin bars at swing highs, know the idea of confluence and picking out sweet locations and are aware of the concept of space/traffic you are already trading well in line with the order flow concepts. This is essentially why we always ask new people to consider the basic stuff as their bible in the initial stages. Once you've drilled down the basics there is always room for more learning and modifications and spin offs which is the ripe time to then start looking into order flow concepts and material. It was quite a shock for me when I actually did dwell into order flow teachings that being at the J16 thread and working with the material I already was trading order flow without even knowing it. The very core principles and ideas were vivdly taught to us through the concepts of "confluence", "bar patterns", understanding "space vs traffic" etc.

You're doing great Jibson, and I am thoroughly impressed by your eloquent nature of learning and your dedication to learning via sticking to the basics. Its the right and the easiest way. Taking your learning process step by step, is crucial to your smooth progress.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #128,039
  • Oct 12, 2013 7:48am Oct 12, 2013 7:48am
Quoting ghous
{quote} Taking your learning process step by step, is crucial to your smooth progress. g.


Thanx Ghous. I did appreciate your comment and advise. Glad i have people like you and others here to look up to.




Jibson007
Still trying to get to meet myself...
  • #128,040
  • Oct 12, 2013 9:09am Oct 12, 2013 9:09am
Quoting nejcb1
{quote} Great trade Jibson. I was also looking that pair on the 4h, but missed it. It is interesting how good previous wedge trendline is acting as support. As I said.. if I would see it right time, I would take it Mike, what do you think about this setup? {image} {image}
Hey mate, Yup decent patterns will show trendlines holding as support/res on the pullback as you mentioned

I was looking at this pair on the daily timeframe a week or so ago I believe. I didnt take the trade myself because I prefered the USD/JPY. For me, If i see a setup on a particular timeframe, I will take the trade and manage the setup on the same TF. For me, the whole multi timeframe analysis approach was just too much, not that it doesnt work. I just prefer to keep things as simple and stress free as possible. But each to their own

Just out of interest which is the current setup on the EUR/JPY that you see. Where would your entry, stop etc ?

Take care
Dan
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