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Mastering the Art of Trading

  • #1,021
  • Oct 7, 2013 9:39am Oct 7, 2013 9:39am
Quoting Oakwoodinc
{quote} A good execution plan might be to change to teh Daily or 4H chart and look for a pullback to the last point of resistance to get a better CRV What do you think?
Hi Oak,

Saw your post just now. That is exactly what I did I never had the retrace entry in mind, but when I saw the retrace happening, I made an entry immediately. I placed the stop loss above the high of the 8 hr pinbar. Right now my stop loss has been knocked off. Shucks.

Neytiri
  • #1,022
  • Oct 7, 2013 10:00am Oct 7, 2013 10:00am
Quoting ghous
{quote} Apologies for the delay. Eid's approaching here really fast and understandably there is quite a lot beyond charts that occupying me. Anyway here's the video (turned out to be longer than I thought so had to break it up in 2 parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryetG...wlzhw1C50yna7W http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRRGZ...N_uA_YgxdfIYLI g.
Thank you very much.
This was very informative.
You are right - we dont need to overcomplicate things. Pros usually dont buy on the top, and dont sell @ the bottom. - This and this only thing explains me all the underlying OF of Inverted pinbars.
And a very great point - we should always look at the bigger picture - we might see an IPB, and trying to go short, while great traders (james16) sees price retesting a former S/R and forming a pinbar.

Thank you
It's all psychology...
  • #1,023
  • Oct 7, 2013 12:25pm Oct 7, 2013 12:25pm
Quoting Neytiri
WTF. Look at what happened in XAGUSD (Alpari). Flash crash. Nothing like this seen in charts of other brokers (LQDMetatrader, AvaMetatrader). It would be disaster for those who were long. Neytiri {image}
Yeah just bucket shop brokers with crap feeds.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #1,024
  • Oct 7, 2013 12:27pm Oct 7, 2013 12:27pm
Quoting vickym
USD CHF Anyone long on USD/CHF? The weekly had a fakey, I entered long on the restest of today's daily bar. TP just around the FTA {image}
I am looking at this very keenly myself. I didn't take a blind long on the pull back to the LLS, but prefer to see the daily close showing me a good day's action refusing to make a move below the LLS (i.e looking for a daily close above the LLS)

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g.
I believe . . .
  • #1,025
  • Oct 7, 2013 12:30pm Oct 7, 2013 12:30pm
Quoting needtolearn
{quote} I think in this case the fakey is way too insignificant because the momentum behind it is just too small. I may be wrong though.
Hey there,

We are operating in a choppy market, so its ok to be expecting price to dance around a bit. It makes these situations tricky but tradable if you know what you're doing. Not A+ of course because they aren't in the "no brainer" league because of their dancing around

g.
I believe . . .
  • #1,026
  • Oct 7, 2013 12:38pm Oct 7, 2013 12:38pm
Quoting Neytiri
Hi Ghous and everybody, I am in this trade now. 1. Weekly fakey 2. 8 hr chart - price closes below brn 156 followed by a retest 3. sl 156.1, target -154.3 4. major concerns - consolidation at the extreme left may mess up the trade, yet took it because of the clear price flip that happened previously- is this valid reasoning? {image} {image}
I do believe that the story so far seems geared towards the retest of the 154 region, but that said it just wasn't strong enough for me to look to trade it.

My only concern is that tight stop you have based of the 8H bar. If this is a setup you spotted on the weekly, isn't it unfair to go for that tight a stop and kill the trade for breathing space?

When trading with multiple time frames this is a balance that needs to be struck - and very well too. If a setup impresses you on the weekly, you have to really think about using an 8H bar as your stop loss, as price may just take it out and might still work out pretty well on the weekly time frame.

Just a little food for thought.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #1,027
  • Oct 7, 2013 12:39pm Oct 7, 2013 12:39pm
Quoting digu
{quote} I'd love that bullish engulfing bar formed at Friday. But I am to afraid to buy since price dragging and consolidate before approaching to LLS. {image}
Hey Digu, I am glad you were able to spot that out.

Price accumulating and then thrusting forward (like a caterpillar) is what creates the choppiness and lack of space for a trade back into that kind of movement.

Brilliant!

g.
I believe . . .
  • #1,028
  • Oct 7, 2013 12:44pm Oct 7, 2013 12:44pm
Quoting str8
{quote} What do you think of entering at the retracement that happened today and target that trouble area?
Yes. That's always a smart thing to do. Even better if you can drop down a time frame to watch a few bar closes to confirm the LLS (in this case) holding and then simply use a bullish bar as your trigger bar all the way up to that target area.

That gets you so far ahead in being able to manage the trade well. Where trader A who went long at the close of that big bullish bar is biting his nails off when price reaches that nearby target area because of the entry being so close and the stop so far off, whereas a trade down there near the LLS gives you that edge in being comfortably in the green as price approaches the major trouble area which allows decision making nice and easy.

That said, price actually missed the LLS here I see and if it fails to do that by the end of the day, then that's insufficient of course...

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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g.
I believe . . .
  • #1,029
  • Oct 7, 2013 12:50pm Oct 7, 2013 12:50pm
Quoting str8
{quote} Do you want to say that we can use lower time frames stop losses if the stop loss is too big on higher time frames? How about using entries on 4hr, stop losses and take profits using daily levels (instead of putting take profit or stop loss at a level on 4hr that seems minor on daily to put tp/sl at a more important level from daily)?
Yes it can be done. Though I force myself to not over do it as that is easy to do (its natural to want to go in with as tight a stop as possible to boost R:R). I like to keep my time frames independent but in the situations that I do use a lower time frame I prefer to use the closest available lower time frame. So the combination goes something like weekly/daily, daily/4H, 4H/1H. Again not set in stone but the idea is that obviously if you have a weekly setup, fine tuning down to the 1H is like expecting the "weekly setup" to work out to the pip and really very well which can at times prove costly because the setup may well play out on the weekly with multiple lower time frame spikes and irregular activity that could lead to perhaps multiple losses on the lower TFs.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #1,030
  • Oct 7, 2013 12:51pm Oct 7, 2013 12:51pm
Quoting str8
{quote} This is based on what % risk / trade?
1%-2% with the risk being more skewed towards 1% for the most part.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #1,031
  • Oct 7, 2013 8:03pm Oct 7, 2013 8:03pm
Quoting digu
{quote} I'd love that bullish engulfing bar formed at Friday. But I am to afraid to buy since price dragging and consolidate before approaching to LLS. {image}
Same view fpr me tooo.. price seems to be heading in to lot of traffic with minimum space.....
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80% effort, 20% luck
  • #1,032
  • Oct 7, 2013 10:57pm Oct 7, 2013 10:57pm
Quoting KOS-fx
{quote} Same view fpr me tooo.. price seems to be heading in to lot of traffic with minimum space..... {image}
I was really hoping for a daily close a little bit further above the LLS on yesterday's bar. Not to be. Closed way strongly as a bearish bar. Pass for me.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #1,033
  • Oct 7, 2013 11:33pm Oct 7, 2013 11:33pm
This is a trade I am currently in:

GASOLINE

1. 4 H fakey
2. price formed huge buob and closed above brn 2.6
3. placed a stop order few pips above the high of the buob bar
4. target 2.64 or the trendline
5. major concerns - price has been trending down in the daily chart. the bearish pressure might prevent price from hitting the trendline. I took the trade because in the process of making lower lows price had been hitting the trendline

Neytiri
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  • #1,034
  • Oct 7, 2013 11:49pm Oct 7, 2013 11:49pm
May I ask u about behind price mechanism?

It's about how can price moved.
Eg. current situation at EUR/USD

Trader wants to spend his money to "Buy" 1 EUR with 1.3580 USD
So, market (and/or broker) will accept his order if another Trader wants to "Sell" his 1 EUR for 1.3580 USD.
At the end the deal price for 1 EUR to be 1.3585 (commission, spread, etc)

Is my example above correct? We can only "Buy" if there is another person want to sell and accept our "Buy Price"?

So how can the price moved up?? Is that transaction (or a huge amount of Buy) at that price that makes price climb? Is there another buyer following? Or there are another events that make price moving?

Because it's different with a traditional market, eg. boy "wants to Buy" a toy with 1.3580 USD, seller doesn't want to sell it yet, he already had another bids from several potential buyers. Then seller just simply ask higher price for that toy.
I can accept this cause so that price can climb.

Ok, that is my question (in bold)

Thank you
  • #1,035
  • Oct 8, 2013 4:28am Oct 8, 2013 4:28am
Quoting ghous
{quote} Yeah just bucket shop brokers with crap feeds. g.

Ghous,

This will wipe out a person's account. Is it legal?

By the way, which broker do you use for live trading?

Neytiri
  • #1,036
  • Oct 8, 2013 5:51am Oct 8, 2013 5:51am
Quoting Neytiri
This is a trade I am currently in: GASOLINE 1. 4 H fakey 2. price formed huge buob and closed above brn 2.6 3. placed a stop order few pips above the high of the buob bar 4. target 2.64 or the trendline 5. major concerns - price has been trending down in the daily chart. the bearish pressure might prevent price from hitting the trendline. I took the trade because in the process of making lower lows price had been hitting the trendline Neytiri {image}
Wow I have never seen a gasoline chart before...which broker has this?
  • #1,037
  • Oct 8, 2013 6:46am Oct 8, 2013 6:46am
Quoting digu
May I ask u about behind price mechanism? It's about how can price moved. Eg. current situation at EUR/USD Trader wants to spend his money to "Buy" 1 EUR with 1.3580 USD So, market (and/or broker) will accept his order if another Trader wants to "Sell" his 1 EUR for 1.3580 USD. At the end the deal price for 1 EUR to be 1.3585 (commission, spread, etc) Is my example above correct? We can only "Buy" if there is another person want to sell and accept our "Buy Price"? So how can the price moved up?? Is that transaction (or a huge amount of Buy)...

Digu...simple answer.

You want to buy 5 lots of Eur/Usd. Price is at 1.3580. You place a limit order at that price but no one wants to sell to you at that price. So you change to a market order.

Seller "A" has 2 lots he's willing to let go at 1.3582. You're filled for 2 lots. You still have 3 on a market order.
The next offer to sell is seller "B" who wants 1.3584. He has 1 lot. Because you have a market order you are filled at the next offer...1.3584. Still 2 lots to fill.
Next seller "C" has 4 lots available but he wants 1.35888. Yikes. But your market order goes ahead and gets that fill for 2 lots at 1.3588

So price moves to balance out the supply with the demand. Obviously your or my 5 lots aren't going to move the price like this example but that's why market makers can't just dump 500,000,000 into the market and expect to get a the price they want. They would consume all the available lots at the current price and their order would have to go "find" the next available bid/offer.
  • #1,038
  • Oct 8, 2013 8:15am Oct 8, 2013 8:15am
Quoting cemfx
{quote} Wow I have never seen a gasoline chart before...which broker has this?
avafx
  • #1,039
  • Oct 8, 2013 12:04pm Oct 8, 2013 12:04pm
Quoting digu
May I ask u about behind price mechanism? It's about how can price moved. Eg. current situation at EUR/USD Trader wants to spend his money to "Buy" 1 EUR with 1.3580 USD So, market (and/or broker) will accept his order if another Trader wants to "Sell" his 1 EUR for 1.3580 USD. At the end the deal price for 1 EUR to be 1.3585 (commission, spread, etc) Is my example above correct? We can only "Buy" if there is another person want to sell and accept our "Buy Price"? So how can the price moved up?? Is that transaction (or a huge amount of Buy)...
Hey Digu,

You got a good response from Spyderman,

Just to add on . . .

Price rises as a result of the imbalance between buyers and sellers or demand and supply. So if there are more buyers than sellers at a particular price level its impossible to consume all that buyside liquidity by the sellers on that particular price level. As a consequence these buyers will want to look for more sellers to buy from and they must do it at a higher price. Again remember the general notion in the market is to sell high and buy low. In the light of this logic its easy to see that if buyers want more sellers than are currently available at the particular price level, they will need to bid up their prices in the hunt for that liquidity they need because its more likely that a higher price level will attract some sellers into selling the underlying to the buyers.

This is essentially why you see price "spiking" often as in the case of a genuine fake out. Price will always rise/drop sharply when there is a dearth of liquidity. Price will only move when it has an incentive to do so. Thankfully us humans are never satisfied for long enough with what we have which results in enough conflicts of interests to keep us speculators in business

Please ask any further questions if you have them.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #1,040
  • Oct 8, 2013 12:12pm Oct 8, 2013 12:12pm
Quoting Neytiri
{quote} Ghous, This will wipe out a person's account. Is it legal? By the way, which broker do you use for live trading? Neytiri
Yes it can. And of course its illegal. What I am saying is in the event where one does get caught up in this mess, and of the broker is honest, you can always file a case and drop down on them to have your money restored. But then again, it shouldn't happen in the first place.

I trade with FXCM and Dukascopy.

PS I don't endorse either and nor is this supposed to provide any kind of advise on brokerage for readers. I only mentioned this because you asked. I am normally very circumspect with explicitly stating brokerage preferences due to obvious reasons.



g.
I believe . . .
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