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  • #381
  • Jul 27, 2013 1:40am Jul 27, 2013 1:40am
FXOjafar seems to be trying to please the traders so I will do some testing over there as well as Pepper.

What rubs me up the wrong way is the spread widening at opening and closing of positions, in what is always promoted as a multi 'trillion dollar market'.

Next step for me if I can't get a fair game, is quit like many others.
My comments are not to be taken as trading advice, not a financial advisor
  • #382
  • Jul 27, 2013 7:04pm Jul 27, 2013 7:04pm
and now i question, is any broker really honest? or is this an industry with foul play at every corner?
  • #383
  • Jul 27, 2013 10:30pm Jul 27, 2013 10:30pm
Well it's an industry where for one trader to win, another has to lose, but generally not a trader that loses.

Brokers, banks, commercials etc. have better tools within their reach and are closer to the action, so at the very end of the scale is the retail trader, with tools mostly supplied to the market either to get you to sign up, or to be used as a trailing type indicator with no effective edge.

I can only leave it to the brokers to read postings like this, and like any retail market let them decide if they want to offer better trading conditions than the next broker.

I think high spreads on opening and closing positions is maybe one of the remaining income sources that brokers were hoping traders would not pick up on, (stealth scalping you might say) but thanks to some good tools out there we can now measure their actions.

Quote
foul play at every corner?
Well largely unregulated, with brokers mostly only accountable and answerable after the fact, if you have the evidence. But it does seem most of the 'account destroying' action is carried out by hedge funds and whales now, whether these guys have their own brokerage at the retail end, most cases I'd say yes, if you go far enough down the line.

ECN's have their own pitfalls, liquidity problems, which brings us back to the retail market maker.
My comments are not to be taken as trading advice, not a financial advisor
  • #384
  • Jul 28, 2013 1:35am Jul 28, 2013 1:35am
so what you say is that they act sometimes like a market maker?? how often it happens? can you post here the tools you use ?
trading is not an addiction. it's a profession.
  • #385
  • Jul 28, 2013 3:15am Jul 28, 2013 3:15am
Quote
they act sometimes like a market maker?
Who knows, but in ECN everyone are mini market makers also, fundamentals drive the main direction. All I was referring to was to get no spread widening on opening and closing positions a market maker may be the only option, but they make it up somewhere else anyway.

I just use the regular tools and skills learn't over 15 years, but for monitoring I use 4xTrader tools.
My comments are not to be taken as trading advice, not a financial advisor
  • #386
  • Jul 28, 2013 10:04am Jul 28, 2013 10:04am
just wondering, then is it possible that there is a reasonable explanation for doing this?
  • #387
  • Edited 1:12pm Jul 28, 2013 10:30am | Edited 1:12pm
Picking faults with IC Markets really don't change anything except to add few more slander pages to this thread. You guys and I are all long-time clients of IC Markets so please evaluate (using the same tools) and recommend a BETTER broker so we can move there. Otherwise feedback the issues directly to Angus W so he can be aware and have these addressed immediately.

Calling them scam or trying to prove they are dishonest don't really solve anything (all brokers are dishonest??). Unless you tell me there is a BETTER broker to move to.

Quoting cogs
FXOjafar seems to be trying to please the traders so I will do some testing over there as well as Pepper.
Please also include Global Prime ECN to your testing of FXOpen AU ECN and Pepperstone ECN.
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #388
  • Aug 1, 2013 2:17am Aug 1, 2013 2:17am
Posted in another forum:


Important update from IC Markets.


Dear forum users,

Please check your VPS's to ensure your MT4 platforms are connected are running build 509 of MT4.

Metaquotes surprised us with a notification last night that from August 1, 2013 MetaTrader 4 desktop client terminals older than build 500 will be no longer supported. This limitation does not apply to the mobile terminals.

In this regard, we strongly recommend all our clients to install the updates and encourage traders to update their trading terminals to build 509 as soon as possible.

What does this mean?

Some clients using trade copiers and running old builds of the MT4 platform may have difficulty connecting to the server. The terminal will show the "Old Version" message in the bottom right corner.

Please contact us on live chat if you require assistance
  • #389
  • Aug 9, 2013 4:43am Aug 9, 2013 4:43am
Well I'm getting similar results with Pepperstone. Spread spikes on trade fills. Part and parcel of the industry I guess. Note these are market orders, so there should be no need to spike the spreads, but if 'allow slippage' is off server side (which is what most people complain about), then something else has to give.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurjpy pepper wide spread.png Size: 21 KB
My comments are not to be taken as trading advice, not a financial advisor
  • #390
  • Edited 7:06pm Aug 9, 2013 8:51am | Edited 7:06pm
Quoting mmaker
{quote} Expected results even if you tested on FXOpen AU or Global Prime. Vendors selling these software tried to play on people's perception of the unscrupulous broker who are out to scam your money. Maybe that "spread spike on trade fills" is a technicality of market order execution and latency in reporting the actual fill. What is your opinion of funding currency? If USD is going to lose value over time, what do you think if I should fund my accounts in AUD or SGD?
I don't think that I could have given a better explanation myself "mmaker". Very well said. there at too many 3rd party applications out there capitalizing on "fear" just to get a sale, in reality they are built by people who have no idea of the true mechanics of the market.
  • #391
  • Aug 9, 2013 6:03pm Aug 9, 2013 6:03pm
I have total confidence in the software and have seen the results are accurate. What the data from the brokers can't show is the spread prior to and after the trade fill which Gaurdian measures. I have posted the same anomaly but better illustrated in graphical form, on some other postings here on FF using 4xSentinel, just that I used Gaurdian fin this instance.


In all, they are only minor spread jumps, I just have to send a big thanks to the creators of this type of software as it assists in keep the brokers honest, and as I have said before brokers are not the main concern for retail traders, the hedge funds, insto's who push the mega stop runs who are working in contrary to the retail trader are the ones to watch out for.


In case you doubted the spread spiking on trade fills have a simple chart illustration showing my stops hit on Pepper but the spike never even occurred on ICMarkets chart (first image). It really doesn't get any more conclusive than this.

How do I/we trade with these types of anomalies? I think they will always be there an exacerbated by low volume, but the only solution seems to be a strategy factoring in wide spreads.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurjpy stopout no spike ICM live.png Size: 96 KB
Attached Image
My comments are not to be taken as trading advice, not a financial advisor
  • #392
  • Aug 11, 2013 5:10am Aug 11, 2013 5:10am
Quoting cogs
I have total confidence in the software and have seen the results are accurate. What the data from the brokers can't show is the spread prior to and after the trade fill which Gaurdian measures. I have posted the same anomaly but better illustrated in graphical form, on some other postings here on FF using 4xSentinel, just that I used Gaurdian fin this instance. In all, they are only minor spread jumps, I just have to send a big thanks to the creators of this type of software as it assists in keep the brokers honest, and as I have said before brokers...
Looks like the end of day boogeyman got you. I thought pepperstone turned off their feed at this time?

What I don't get is your comment about the insto's being baddies and moving the market to take out retail's stops. Why would they give 2c about a few micro lots?

and If your theory has some merit why wouldn't you do as they do and go for stops?

lastly, when do you trade? if you're getting spread spikes at two different brokers then I dount we're getting the whole story..







i
  • #393
  • Aug 11, 2013 5:36am Aug 11, 2013 5:36am
That whole 1minute bar is 23 pips tall. I only checked fxpro and price resembles ic (no spike down bar) Now if you would have price travelling 150 pips across any other broker with 200 pip spread, that would be problematic in my eyes, it is however unusual. What did Pepperstone say? I assume you complained?
  • #394
  • Aug 11, 2013 6:50am Aug 11, 2013 6:50am
Quote
What I don't get is your comment about the insto's being baddies and moving the market to take out retail's stops. Why would they give 2c about a few micro lots?
I didn't say the insto's were baddies, only that their actions are of greater concern than the minor spikes.
Quote
and If your theory has some merit why wouldn't you do as they do and go for stops?
I can't move the market as they do, I am small fish. Stop runs occur all the time and if you think they are fiction you really need to get involved with how the fx market really works. Fundamentals drive it, but there is flexibility within the intended range.

Quote
lastly, when do you trade? if you're getting spread spikes at two different brokers then I dount we're getting the whole story..
I trade any time, as I should with brokers advertising 'tight spreads' etc. etc.

Quote
What did Pepperstone say? I assume you complained?
No, I am not going to complain about that spike with pepperstone (such a small move), I am well aware such moves can happen, but to a lesser extent now days. I could complain one day and have it resolved to some extent, then only to have it occur again the next week. I make these test trades all the time to gauge the market, as do bots. After all it's a business, it takes expenses to make profits.

I only post this info on this forum to assist in keeping better deals for retail traders, I could care less really, but imagine if there were no forums?? Now then you would see some spikes, yikes
My comments are not to be taken as trading advice, not a financial advisor
  • #395
  • Aug 11, 2013 7:19am Aug 11, 2013 7:19am
Quoting cogs
{quote} I can't move the market as they do, I am small fish. Stop runs occur all the time and if you think they are fiction you really need to get involved with how the fx market really works. Fundamentals drive it, but there is flexibility within the intended range. {quote}
I was implying you should trade the stop runs with the instos as opposed to writing about them in a forum. I imagine that would take some skill beyond that of a commercial EA though...

Quoting cogs
{quote}I trade any time, as I should with brokers advertising 'tight spreads' etc. etc.{quote}
I guess this is secret squirrel stuff so no one in the forum can see how, when and why you're trading to understand the 'foul play' with the trades with ICM and Pepperstone.

with the above in mind, can you explain how the above information can assist in a better deal for a retail trader?
  • #396
  • Aug 11, 2013 7:33am Aug 11, 2013 7:33am
Quote
I was implying you should trade the stop runs with the instos as opposed to writing about them in a forum. I imagine that would take some skill beyond that of a commercial EA though...
Tell me when they are lining up a stop run and I'll trade it.

Quote
I guess this is secret squirrel stuff so no one in the forum can see how, when and why you're trading to understand the 'foul play' with the trades with ICM and Pepperstone.
Really!
Quote
with the above in mind, can you explain how the above information can assist in a better deal for a retail trader?
I mean really??!!

Mate you are bright enough to type on a forum, you are really delving into troll territory now, I'm not wasting any more time with this. I am sure it has helped others who are bright enough to use the info however they see fit.

Later.
My comments are not to be taken as trading advice, not a financial advisor
  • #397
  • Aug 11, 2013 7:46am Aug 11, 2013 7:46am
Quoting cogs
{quote} Tell me when they are lining up a stop run and I'll trade it.
There are dozens of threads on forex factory about order flow trading. Darkstar wrote a book about it which I bought and read...

Quoting cogs
{quote}Mate you are bright enough to type on a forum, you are really delving into troll territory now, I'm not wasting any more time with this. I am sure it has helped others who are bright enough to use the info however they see fit.
No you haven't helped anyone. traders are now worse off after the information you've posted about IC Markets and Pepperstone. I feel so strongly about it I just started a thread. its aimed more at developers of EAs rather than whinging traders but you should have a read.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=441582
  • #398
  • Aug 11, 2013 8:12am Aug 11, 2013 8:12am
Quoting cogs
{quote} No, I am not going to complain about that spike with pepperstone (such a small move), I am well aware such moves can happen, but to a lesser extent now days.
I believe that trading ECN and ECN like environments is quite different from market maker environments. For example, fxpro usually don't have spread bigger then 8 pips on GBPJPY at news, while maintaining general spread for this pair at 4.2. Pepperstone's spread is arround 1.6 generally (+ commission), but on news it can spike 25 pips and more. So first thing you need to do when trading ECN is to increase SL and trade longer time frames. Scalping on ECN will bring you many surprises.
  • #399
  • Aug 11, 2013 8:28am Aug 11, 2013 8:28am
Quoting IndigoPingvi
{quote} I believe that trading ECN and ECN like environments is quite different from market maker environments. For example, fxpro usually don't have spread bigger then 8 pips on GBPJPY at news, while maintaining general spread for this pair at 4.2. Pepperstone's spread is arround 1.6 generally (+ commission), but on news it can spike 25 pips and more. So first thing you need to do when trading ECN is to increase SL and trade longer time frames. Scalping on ECN will bring you many surprises.
IMO ECNs are betting for scalping and intraday trading. if you buy and sell 100x @ market at an ECN broker and compare this to the same trade at a market maker broker with wider spreads you will find the ECN broker wins hands down.

if you hold a scalping trade during high impact news or rollover then chances are its not scalping...
  • #400
  • Aug 13, 2013 7:18pm Aug 13, 2013 7:18pm
I recently opened an account with IC Markets and I wired money to them on August 6 (Tuesday) through Royal Bank of Canada (Their Bank)...and I have an account with the same Bank. Today is August 13 and no money in my trading account...I have sent emails to support and accounts department...so far, no response from IC markets. Few minutes ago, I sent an email to a guy called Angus Walker (Head of Trading Desk at IC Markets) to help follow up on my account...let see how long it will take to hear from him.

I got an email from Angus Walker (IC Markets Rep)...my account still not credited. Wire transfer to IC Markets is more than 6 business days...with their own bank!!!

I am getting emails from IC Markets people calling me a loser. Anyone looking to trade with IC Markets and reading all this BS will see their true colors. There is a reason why I made a small deposit...just to try you fake brokers out...and I intend to expose as many as I can. So far, TRADERS WAY, NORDFX, PFD, 4RUNNER, 1PIPFIX, AJAX FINANCIAL are fake brokers in my book and I am about to include IC MARKET if they keep up with this BS.

In four weeks of my research, I find DUKASCOPY, ATC BROKERS, MB TRADING and HANTEC MARKETS to be an okay Brokers. In few days, I will try out EXNESS...hopefully they will be better than IC MARKETS.

I sent the wire transfer to IC Markets with their instructions...and Royal Bank Of Canada does not make mistakes when wiring money. At least I know with this email...that this error did not originate from Canada. Please read the email I got from IC Markets representative....

Hi Hxxxx,

I just left a voicemail for you regarding your local bank transfer.

We believe the reason for the delay with the transfer of your funds is due to a mismatch at Global Collect. As I explained earlier today Global Collect is an international payment gateway who collect funds on behalf of IC Markets (+ thousands of other clients). This is why you send funds to Global Collect BV Limited rather than an IC Markets client trust account with NAB, our primary banking partner here in Australia.

The mismatch has occurred as your original transfer description that was submitted through the client portal was for $0.00, I have attached a screenshot showing this information. Whilst the payment reference will match at Global Collect, the amounts will not. Under these circumstances Global Collect will hold the funds in suspense as a measure against money laundering.

IC Markets accounts department is contacting Global Collect with a copy of your transfer receipt to retrieve your funds. Whilst they are taking all measures to ensure this is done as soon as possible, we cannot guarantee the arrival of the funds in your trading account within the next few days.

I have also investigated why you did not receive a response to your emails. The support inbox did not receive any emails from you, it appears the emails were actually sent to [email protected] (a no reply email) and our accounts department. Whilst accounts should have responded sooner, they try to maintain an SLA of 24 hours (one business day) which they appear to have been within. I should point out that our support team also use ZenDesk so an automated reply is sent every you send them an email.

In any event we appear to have dragged the chain a little with your query. For this reason I have received approval from management to have the commission reduced on your account to $5 USD/lot.

Please reply to this email with any questions you have about this transfer.

Kind regards,

Angus Walker | Head of Trading Desk | IC Markets
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