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I don't want to pay tax

  • #41
  • Jun 21, 2006 7:13pm Jun 21, 2006 7:13pm
The way to get government spending down, is to quit giving the polititians so much money. They have a blank check in that they can raise taxes without raising taxes.

I will endevor to 'splain. No I don't have time to 'splain, so I will sum up... All that they have to do to "raise taxes" is to write a new tax break for thier favorite pals. The pal pays less tax, we all pay more. The pol has a clean voting record on taxes and his buddies and him laugh all the way to the bank.

This is the big LIE of income tax.
Nolite dormiens pungere ursum. -- Latan Proverb.
  • #42
  • Jun 21, 2006 8:25pm Jun 21, 2006 8:25pm
Thanks to all who contributed.

There are some really good points here. I am glad to see the participants contributing with great objectivity, although there was a slight digression in small number of posts.

The point is we all know that taxes are:

  1. important for economy (not everyone will agree)
  2. necessary to keep a country on growth path (some argue that most tax free countries are on growth paths!)
  3. are to be paid maybe due to an obligation (moral or other) to protect some individual or collective interests (freedom, a social way of life or economy etc)

These are all obvious points. The point is “I don’t want to pay tax” and still trade. Rusty and pipy le’ pur, thanks for ATO specific information.

Here is a 1, 2, 3 that I am thinking (just thinking yet); however someone will rip this apart into million pieces (and that’s exactly what I am looking for):
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

  1. Open an off-shore account with someone else’s name who is living in a tax free country or where there are no Forex taxes. Of course the assumption is that you are able to find this combination and they are willing to be part of your plan.
  2. You’ll do all the trading using their name with broker.
  3. Transfer money in and out using a third account (introducing another layer).

Of course receiving large sums (if trading profitably) from an overseas account will alert the tax man. If you can justify the sums being unrelated to any income earning activity, then you are safe.

Some would argue that “all you need is to justify that the money cannot be taxed” is all you want in first place. However “once you have received money without an income earning activity”, at this point, there can be numerous specific examples of how the justifications can be established. I would suggest discussing this justification item as a separate topic in another post. The amount of transfer ins/outs should be kept infrequent in this manner. No tax deductions can be made if you lose money.

Regards,

Nashanaas
<o></o>

  • #43
  • Jun 22, 2006 1:31am Jun 22, 2006 1:31am
Here is another good ploy. (I used to do movie tax shelters in the early '80's.)

1. Find a wino.
2. Set up a Corp. in his name with some of his hommies on the board. Slip them all a box of "fotties"
3. When you have the bank account set up, Have him sign a whole bunch of checks. While he is still sober enough, have him and his hommies sign the Corp meeting minutes for the next 5 years.
4. Forget about the homeless wino and his hommies.
5. Put your assets in the corp.
6. Run the Corp. Sign everything else with the Corp Seal.
7. Have fun and don't pay taxes. Who they gonna arrest? The wino that they can't find? Your name isn't on anything. You just work here.

(don't forget the smileys, there are newbies lurking about)
Nolite dormiens pungere ursum. -- Latan Proverb.
  • #44
  • Jun 22, 2006 4:51am Jun 22, 2006 4:51am
Quoting MrWhipple
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>
Quoting MrWhipple
2. Set up a Corp. in his name with some of his hommies on the board. Slip them all a box of "fotties"<o></o>
6. Run the Corp. Sign everything else with the Corp Seal.<o></o>
7. Have fun and don't pay taxes. Who they gonna arrest? The wino that they can't find? Your name isn't on anything. You just work here.

<o></o>

Apples to apples mate!
<o></o>

Whipple, the analogy you mentioned is not applicable. It is totally different to “I don’t work here” (or I was just following the orders). You are not being part of any income earning activity or setting up a business, therefore you did not earn anything. However, you received funds infrequently into you account. And as I said earlier a reason justification of receiving such funds presumably exists.

Nash
  • #45
  • Jun 22, 2006 6:28am Jun 22, 2006 6:28am
Quoting nashanaas
<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o></o>

Apples to apples mate!
<o></o>

Whipple, the analogy you mentioned is not applicable. It is totally different to “I don’t work here” (or I was just following the orders). You are not being part of any income earning activity or setting up a business, therefore you did not earn anything. However, you received funds infrequently into you account. And as I said earlier a reason justification of receiving such funds presumably exists.

Nash
Dude, note the smileys, its a JOKE. The setup I outlined is illegial on sooooo many levels. Fraud, conspiricy, malfeasance, misfeasance, etc. i could go on but it is 4:30 here and I am just barliey awake. But the setup would work, (until you got cought) you would just have to make all of your money inside the Corp.

It is like I said before, the trick is NOT to make money. (or not to make money in your name) You could use a Sham Corp., a trusted friend that doesn't mind taking the tax hit, an ofshore bank or intity or whatever. Just don't make any money that can be traced back to you.

(The above is not to be construed as tax advice, please see your tax professional for the laws in your area)
Nolite dormiens pungere ursum. -- Latan Proverb.
  • #46
  • Jun 22, 2006 6:37am Jun 22, 2006 6:37am
Oh crap! I gotta go get that paper work back. I didn't know it was illegal. MrWip said it was ok...



Quoting MrWhipple
Dude, note the smileys, its a JOKE. The setup I outlined is illegial on sooooo many levels. Fraud, conspiricy, malfeasance, misfeasance, etc. i could go on but it is 4:30 here and I am just barliey awake. But the setup would work, (until you got cought) you would just have to make all of your money inside the Corp.

It is like I said before, the trick is NOT to make money. (or not to make money in your name) You could use a Sham Corp., a trusted friend that doesn't mind taking the tax hit, an ofshore bank or intity or whatever. Just don't make any money that can be traced back to you.

(The above is not to be construed as tax advice, please see your tax professional for the laws in your area)
  • #47
  • Jun 22, 2006 8:06am Jun 22, 2006 8:06am
Hi,

Come to brunei because its tax free. Opps I forgot, we pay road tax, which is a flat rate of USD20 a year. hehee..

A fact, not a thought
Change Your Thinking. Change Your Life - JD
  • #48
  • Jun 22, 2006 8:13am Jun 22, 2006 8:13am
How does Brunei pay for its infrastructure like schools and fire and police and such?



Quoting OrangeRoshan
Hi,

Come to brunei because its tax free. Opps I forgot, we pay road tax, which is a flat rate of USD20 a year. hehee..

A fact, not a thought
  • #49
  • Jun 22, 2006 8:19am Jun 22, 2006 8:19am
Hi SMjones,

Its produce of Oil & Gas in S.E. Asia with 300,000 population only. Ok, I know, they girl you blind date might be your 2nd cousin!! hehehe..

Its a fact, not a thought.
Change Your Thinking. Change Your Life - JD
  • #50
  • Jun 22, 2006 8:20am Jun 22, 2006 8:20am
Natural resource.....OIL, natural gas etc plus a very small population

Quoting smjones
How does Brunei pay for its infrastructure like schools and fire and police and such?
The greatest achievements are those that benefit others....
  • #51
  • Jun 22, 2006 8:21am Jun 22, 2006 8:21am
From the CIA World Fact Book:
Brunei benefits from extensive petroleum and natural gas fields, the source of one of the highest per capita GDPs in the developing world.
Quoting smjones
How does Brunei pay for its infrastructure like schools and fire and police and such?
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #52
  • Jun 22, 2006 8:30am Jun 22, 2006 8:30am
Well said Mr Mrgreen but please take out the developing world.

Brunei benefits from extensive petroleum and Natural gas fields. Source of one of the highest per capital GDPs in the WORLD

MM

Quoting mrgreen
From the CIA World Fact Book:
Brunei benefits from extensive petroleum and natural gas fields, the source of one of the highest per capita GDPs in the developing world.
The greatest achievements are those that benefit others....
  • #53
  • Jun 22, 2006 8:37am Jun 22, 2006 8:37am
No offense meant - it was a direct quote from:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/bx.html
I think the Govt. thinks everyone else but the US is a developing country

Quoting mmbmusa
Well said Mr Mrgreen but please take out the developing world.

Brunei benefits from extensive petroleum and Natural gas fields. Source of one of the highest per capital GDPs in the WORLD

MM
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #54
  • Jun 22, 2006 11:16am Jun 22, 2006 11:16am
You could spend an inordinate amount on making your office nice and cozy. In a nice part of town. And put your family on the payroll. What would you be doing if you had all the cash you wanted? Work that way instead.

'Um I'm not lazing about on the beach - I'm studying wave formations, honest!'

In the UK you could spread bet instead of forexing. I don't think gambling winnings are taxed, although I could be wrong.

We are also under no obligation to arrange our tax affairs so that the government can get the largest possible slice of the pie.


Icicle
  • #55
  • Jun 22, 2006 12:39pm Jun 22, 2006 12:39pm
I have actually studies wave formations in exactly this way. It does seem as if every 7th wave is the biggest

"In 1944, Judge Hand delivered an address at a patriotic rally in New York City's Central Park. The address, entitled The Spirit of Liberty, is one of Hand's most famous utterances. In it, he famously described the spirit of liberty as "the spirit which is not too sure that it is right." One of the most famous quotes that Judge Learned Hand is known for is: "There is nothing sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible."

In another famous quote regarding the U.S. income tax law, Judge Hand wrote:

"Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes..."


Quoting icicle
You could spend an inordinate amount on making your office nice and cozy. In a nice part of town. And put your family on the payroll. What would you be doing if you had all the cash you wanted? Work that way instead.

'Um I'm not lazing about on the beach - I'm studying wave formations, honest!'

In the UK you could spread bet instead of forexing. I don't think gambling winnings are taxed, although I could be wrong.

We are also under no obligation to arrange our tax affairs so that the government can get the largest possible slice of the pie.


Icicle
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #56
  • Edited 1:30pm Jun 22, 2006 1:21pm | Edited 1:30pm
Quoting HeavyJ
Hi Dane,















Have you read the Fair Tax Document? The Fair Tax does not eliminate taxes. The Fair Tax replaces the current tax system and DOES, as written, ABOLISH the IRS. The Fair Tax is revenue Neutral!










Absolutely,



Huh? Ok. Kind of a given isn't it?



Right now, taxes are necessary for a lot more than that.

Taxes are neccesary to fuel the runaway beltway lobbiests? These guys definately need a new job!

Taxes are necessary to fund a failing public school system.

Taxes are necessary to build a bridge to nowhere! and other pork projects, spawned from the mentality that Tax money is the descretionary spending income of the government rather than the fruits of our labors.

Taxes are necessary to fund, absolutley outrageous and frivolous, inefficiently run government entitlement programs which cost far more to administer just because of the sheer bureacracy! "I now help pay for Bill Gates Medicine" (no slam on Bill for this-----he didn't write this garbage)

BTW- Needy Seniors, do need help!

---These things cost the taxpayers billions and influence elections----for the few!

Dane, if you haven't investigated Fair Tax .org please do so.

The Fair Tax is not a Tax Cut. It funds the Government at current levels. For The Military....... and the Crap above!

The Crap above is a fight for another day. Easier won when you have an informed populace. When folks see thier Federal Tax bill ......everytime they go to buy groceries or anything else for that matter, they will take more notice to the crap above

That's all there was to prove.
Dane[/quote]

I think you should look a little further....

HJ







[/quote]







I do look a little further, but not in this thread. I'm just trying to stay close to the subject. What we are discussing here is weather taxes are needed or not. The Fair Tax book has nothing to do with it whatsoever. We departed from the original question enough already.

We have the same opinion, which is that taxes are unavoidable. This is all we need for this part of the thread.

You say you are opposed to "influence elections----for the few" and using public resources for private goals. Let's stop promoting the Fair Tax guy here. This forum should not be used for political purposes.

As for the original question - one of the best ways to lower your taxes in US is buying a house. Mortgage interest is tax deductible and may lower your taxes significantly.

Happy trading

Dane
  • #57
  • Jun 22, 2006 5:43pm Jun 22, 2006 5:43pm
Quoting great*dane
I do look a little further, but not in this thread. I'm just trying to stay close to the subject. What we are discussing here is weather taxes are needed or not. The Fair Tax book has nothing to do with it whatsoever. We departed from the original question enough already.

We have the same opinion, which is that taxes are unavoidable. This is all we need for this part of the thread.

You say you are opposed to "influence elections----for the few" and using public resources for private goals. Let's stop promoting the Fair Tax guy here. This forum should not be used for political purposes.

As for the original question - one of the best ways to lower your taxes in US is buying a house. Mortgage interest is tax deductible and may lower your taxes significantly.

Happy trading

Dane
Touche!

...and fair enough!

I do think that discussion or debate on the replacement of a completely inept and corrupt tax aperatus, is a fair appendage to a Topic titled "I Don't Want to Pay Tax". Pehaps another Thread!

Emotions can run high on topics like this. Especially mine!

Not my intention to offend......If I have please accept my apology!

Good Journey
HeavyJ
HeavyJ -"Posterboy for Spellchecker!" "Will work for pips!"
  • #58
  • Jun 22, 2006 6:20pm Jun 22, 2006 6:20pm
Quoting HeavyJ
Touche!

...and fair enough!

I do think that discussion or debate on the replacement of a completely inept and corrupt tax aperatus, is a fair appendage to a Topic titled "I Don't Want to Pay Tax". Pehaps another Thread!

Emotions can run high on topics like this. Especially mine!

Not my intention to offend......If I have please accept my apology!

Good Journey
HeavyJ
I didn't feel offended, so there is no need to apologize. As I said, I like a good argument and I hope I didn't offend anybody either.

Taxes can be avery sensitive issue and most people have strong opinions one way or another. No wonder this thread was getting hot.

I think we are the last 2 people here and the party is over, so probably the best thing to do is just leave... but if you are ever in San Francisco Bay Area let me know and we can talk about all this over a glass of beer!

Peace,

Dane
  • #59
  • Jun 22, 2006 6:49pm Jun 22, 2006 6:49pm
Great*Dan and HeavyJ, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>


Good on you for realizing the soul of the original question and emphasizing on objectivity. Yes agree that there is a fair degree of digression from the topic.<o></o>
<o></o>

Nash<o></o>
  • #60
  • Jun 22, 2006 7:07pm Jun 22, 2006 7:07pm
Quoting MrWhipple
In the US the way to avoid income tax is to avoid income. It is really quite simple. Just don't make any money. I have been doing this verry successfully for years and years. There is no trick to it at all.

If you are into Forex it is even easier. Just trade like there is no tomorow. Trade trade, trade, day and nite, just trade. Take the good trades with the bad ones and soon, even if you had a bit of money to start with, now you will have none and you can mabie even take the loss forward to the next year. (see a tax professional for any and all tax advice.)
LOL you are the funniest wizard ive ever met mrwhipple!
Relax and be happy.
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