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HCR-LCS + SFP Research thread

  • #101
  • Jul 6, 2013 11:24am Jul 6, 2013 11:24am
Quoting Pinbar
Very interesting indeed. I take it HHR= Highest High of Resistance LLS= Lowest Low of Support? I shall think about this also in the sense of the big picture. Got to get some sleep Thanks again Ghous. Yeah, I miss SC also.
yes.

HHR = Highest High of Resistance

LLS = Lowest Low of Support.

Simply the highest price level visited during a period of resistance and lowest price level visited during a period of support. These define the SFP levels for me.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #102
  • Jul 6, 2013 5:25pm Jul 6, 2013 5:25pm
come back Supreme C...all is forgiven!! and bring back all your colours!!


i think im gonna like this thread.
Hey ghous, do you trade your IPBs ??


jon
PATIENCE... DISCIPLINE
  • #103
  • Jul 7, 2013 12:01am Jul 7, 2013 12:01am
USD/CAD is on my radar.
The monthly box HCR looks interesting.
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  • #104
  • Jul 7, 2013 12:22am Jul 7, 2013 12:22am
Quoting g_j_hook@yah
come back Supreme C...all is forgiven!! and bring back all your colours!! i think im gonna like this thread. Hey ghous, do you trade your IPBs ?? jon
I still use them as another chunk of the bigger story and for confluence / trade management purposes.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #105
  • Jul 7, 2013 12:23am Jul 7, 2013 12:23am
Quoting Pinbar
Anyone else noticed we are not able to edit our posts at all anymore? I posted the wrong screenshot, in a different thread and when I tried to edit the post I got this message. I am also getting this message in this thread, checked the Admin functions and there is nowhere to turn this off. {image}
I am being allowed to edit my posts just fine Steve,

You might want to contact FF support with this issue. Might be just a glitch.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #106
  • Jul 7, 2013 2:03am Jul 7, 2013 2:03am
Quoting Pinbar
{quote} How strange? You know, I am in China at the moment and, the internet is really screwed up here, for big brother reasons.
Rest assured the big brother doesn't want to show you down by not letting you edit posts lol

You are accessing FF just fine from China, sharing your amazing charts and thoughts just fine from China. You need to contact FF with this issue. It should be resolved.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #107
  • Jul 7, 2013 3:41am Jul 7, 2013 3:41am
Hi g!

My head is still a little bit dizzy due ti this fakout think.
What happened there is, that price almost touched and important level That wick would have been a minor Trouble area if I were long - so to say) But apparently price didnt - it missed it.

What happened then:
-That wick absorbed a certain amount of sellers. - So an upmove down would be easier.
-Price wanted to test that level (?)

Could you give me some more light in this?

Cheers,
Stephen

PS: I still cant express how thankful I am, for all your efforts!
It's all psychology...
  • #108
  • Edited 5:00am Jul 7, 2013 4:00am | Edited 5:00am
Quoting ghous
{quote} Rest assured the big brother doesn't want to show you down by not letting you edit posts lol You are accessing FF just fine from China, sharing your amazing charts and thoughts just fine from China. You need to contact FF with this issue. It should be resolved. g.

Yeah, I contacted them.

EDIT" Just installed Google Chrome and I can now edit again.
  • #109
  • Edited 7:31am Jul 7, 2013 5:11am | Edited 7:31am
Quoting LamerTrader
Hi g! My head is still a little bit dizzy due ti this fakout think. What happened there is, that price almost touched and important level That wick would have been a minor Trouble area if I were long - so to say) But apparently price didnt - it missed it. What happened then: -That wick absorbed a certain amount of sellers. - So an upmove down would be easier. -Price wanted to test that level (?) Could you give me some more light in this? Cheers, Stephen PS: I still cant express how thankful I am, for all your efforts!
It is the order flow.

The major corporations that may have overbought a currency are waiting to unload it at a price equal to or higher than what they bought it for.
They will have their sell orders somewhere above that high, and when people thinking price has broken out place their buy orders, price will get pushed into the sell orders, trigger them, push price down and take out the buyers SL, thus reversing their position. So now, the big corporations are selling tons of that currency, the people on the wrong side of the fence, are going frantic, they accept the loss and sell at a lower price than they bought at.
This creates liquidity as they are all now selling and, price can plumit.

Why do you think price action works? It is not magic although, I used to really think it must be.

A PB with a long wick or an Outside Bar is the exact same principle. The long wicks of a PB are people on the wrong side of the fence, it is visible in the shape of the bar but, the location of these bars is critical or, you are going to be selling into one of Ghous'es fakey bars and, paying Ghous for the pleasure. LOL
However with PBs and BUEOB, we tradtionally put our stop above or below the bar, & enter on the bar break. Thus increasing the risk. The SFP & Jarroo's HCR-LCS, can get us into a monthly, weekly or daily PA bar, at the best price and with a tight stop close to where, if we are wrong, we don't break the bank with the SL being 150 pips from our entry.
Now you know why, this thread is a mixture of PA, HCR-LCS, SFP & Fakey. They are all the same thing, only the entry is different.

However, we don't really have to know all this with PA, we just see the bars and check the area they come off and move into.
Like, in order to drive a car, it is not neccesary to know how a four cycle gasoline engine and transmission work. Of course, it is better if you do know it but, millions of people drive without ever considering how a gasoline engine works.


Like Ju Jitsu, push when your oppononet pulls you and pull when they push you.

But, as Ghous is much wiser about these things, let's hear it from him.
  • #110
  • Jul 7, 2013 7:47am Jul 7, 2013 7:47am
Quoting LamerTrader
Hi g! My head is still a little bit dizzy due ti this fakout think. What happened there is, that price almost touched and important level That wick would have been a minor Trouble area if I were long - so to say) But apparently price didnt - it missed it. What happened then: -That wick absorbed a certain amount of sellers. - So an upmove down would be easier. -Price wanted to test that level (?) Could you give me some more light in this? Cheers, Stephen PS: I still cant express how thankful I am, for all your efforts!
Hey Stephen,

Steve pretty much summed it up very nicely and covered everything.

Kindly don't go dizzy trying to desperately get a hold of this stuff. This is an advanced leg of the James16 basics which I know you are currently practicing with. This is precisely why these ideas are being talked about in a spin off thread and not in the James16 thread.

If you are finding this tough to begin with its always a good idea to stick to what you're comfortable with until you're ready to begin further exploration and research. At the end of the day make sure your time in front of the charts and at FF reading and learning is fun and something you really enjoy. The advanced stuff can always wait

g.
I believe . . .
  • #111
  • Edited 8:32am Jul 7, 2013 8:20am | Edited 8:32am
SFP areas.

Sometimes when finding a good looking HCR or LCS and going down to a lower tf, I am seeing possible SFP areas that are sometimes above the HCR and sometimes below them. Just wondering which of the two is going to be the most reliable and am leaning towards the one above the HCR.

Maybe Ghous has some thoughts on this.

Edit: I don't mean on the same pair and area, I mean on different charts.
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  • #112
  • Jul 7, 2013 8:35am Jul 7, 2013 8:35am
Here is an example of one below the HCR on CAD/CHF.
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  • #113
  • Jul 7, 2013 9:25am Jul 7, 2013 9:25am
Quoting Pinbar
SFP areas. Sometimes when finding a good looking HCR or LCS and going down to a lower tf, I am seeing possible SFP areas that are sometimes above the HCR and sometimes below them. Just wondering which of the two is going to be the most reliable and am leaning towards the one above the HCR. Maybe Ghous has some thoughts on this. Edit: I don't mean on the same pair and area, I mean on different charts. {image}
A few things here,

1) I never mix and merge my time frames. I know contesting viewpoints say that each time frame is just a differently chopped up version of price reacting in an area but I have honestly simplified my life and eliminated headaches from my trading actions since I have started dealing with each time frame separately. A bias towards towards one time frame more than the others helps the cause.

2) the kind of order flow information you need for fake out scenarios is more adequately met by highs and lows (i.e HHR and LLS) as opposed to bar closes. Now I know how well your weekly and daily HCR/LCS levels work but my decisions are never centered around HCR/LCS levels. I use them for confluence and pin pointing my trouble areas and potential target points.

That said, I am limited with respect to my understanding of HCR/LCS levels compared to some of the hard core Jarroo method followers like you for instance. I'll give it a shot though...

A weekly HCR level for example is good for a long off it only when we see a weekly close above it. Now the question is what if we get fake out setups a little above and below it during the week price when price is around the weekly HCR level and which situation is more solid. My response would be that both are equally valid. As long as we don't get a weekly close above the weekly HCR all bearish action around that region is still a short signal for me. The reason once again lies in the principle of bar closes. Until you get a weekly close above, price is still under resistance from the weekly HCR.

Now this is just my understanding, and I know there exists space for a system, in Jarroo's method where people tend to take longs of higher time frame HCR levels when a 1H or the 4H closes above them, though he too admits that that's fairly risky.

Hope this helps a bit.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #114
  • Jul 7, 2013 9:41am Jul 7, 2013 9:41am
Quoting Pinbar
SFP areas. Sometimes when finding a good looking HCR or LCS and going down to a lower tf, I am seeing possible SFP areas that are sometimes above the HCR and sometimes below them. Just wondering which of the two is going to be the most reliable and am leaning towards the one above the HCR. Maybe Ghous has some thoughts on this. Edit: I don't mean on the same pair and area, I mean on different charts. {image}
Tricky question and I am sure you can find traders arguing for both the uper and lower level.

What might speak for the lower?
It's the "origin" of the move. Hence, we had the greatest imbalance - sellers > buyers - at this point which made it fall.

What might speak for the upper?
1) We could have left unfilled orders sitting here that did not get executed.
2) It's a likely place for a stop buy order from people trading a breakout strategy and big player could aim for taking the guys out.

I have asked myself this very question so often before but I believe there is no one answer. Experience and playing the probabilities is what kicks in here...
Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
  • #115
  • Jul 7, 2013 12:25pm Jul 7, 2013 12:25pm
Quoting Pinbar
{quote} It is the order flow. The major corporations that may have overbought a currency are waiting to unload it at a price equal to or higher than what they bought it for. They will have their sell orders somewhere above that high, and when people thinking price has broken out place their buy orders, price will get pushed into the sell orders, trigger them, push price down and take out the buyers SL, thus reversing their position. So now, the big corporations are selling tons of that currency, the people on the wrong side of the fence, are going...
Bammm and There Was Light Again!

I gotta admit I had to read certain parts twice til i got it 100%... And then I was like Baaaam. Wooooow.
And really It makes sense... At all these setups only the timeframe differs. I mean at pinbar the whole breakout- and order-overloading happens in one day, til in the cases of Engulfing bars and Inside bars they happen in 2 days.
And also: We like the Engoulfing bars better, since the "Pushing" momentum of the "big hands" were greater then in the case of the Inside Bars. So we got nothing else to do, just to enter and have a nice journey with the big guys
(Okay I know its not that simple )

Ghous!
Thank you for your worries. No yet im not going to start testing SFPs too. That would be too much work. The SFP concept is relatively easy I think (for me it seems easier than the j16 trades) but for now im just gonna follow the thread, and after Im ok with the j16 basics I can continue from a higher level here.

And yes - Im an engineer student - I love to know how things work. And thats why I find order flow so fascinating
Have a nice Sunday Night.
Market opens soon!
Get ready!
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It's all psychology...
  • #116
  • Jul 7, 2013 12:52pm Jul 7, 2013 12:52pm
I just wanted to share how I do my Sunday's homework. Basically I just flip through my charts and see if the charts offer some interesting levels price might run into in the upcoming week. This way you are prepared and have a gameplan. Each morning and evening I check again and see if I see any potential trades develope and put in orders if necessary.

Here are some of the pairs I am watching that I find have some interesting levels coming close.

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Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
  • #117
  • Jul 7, 2013 5:35pm Jul 7, 2013 5:35pm
Quoting LamerTrader
{quote} And yes - Im an engineer student - I love to know how things work. And thats why I find order flow so fascinating
thats a curse right there, im the same. the fact is we dont need to know, i dont care what anyone says. the simpler i keep it the better (for me), knowlage is all well and good but iv learned to spend my time on more productive things when it comes to trading, like back-testing etc.

jus my opinion



jon
PATIENCE... DISCIPLINE
  • #118
  • Jul 7, 2013 8:46pm Jul 7, 2013 8:46pm
Quoting Helius
I just wanted to share how I do my Sunday's homework. Basically I just flip through my charts and see if the charts offer some interesting levels price might run into in the upcoming week. This way you are prepared and have a gameplan. Each morning and evening I check again and see if I see any potential trades develope and put in orders if necessary. Here are some of the pairs I am watching that I find have some interesting levels coming close. {image}{image}{image}{image}
Thanks Helius for, both for the explanation of the question I asked about the Upper and Lower possible SFP areas above a HCR or LCS.
I am also of the opinion that there is no specific answer and only trial and error will let me decide which if any is going to be more reliable.

On the pairs you are interested in, I always find it interesting that people studying the same methodology tend to find the same setups and, I believe this is confirmation that, people are on the right track, At least I am on the same page as most of your possible SFP setups. The NZD/USD, I saw but am leaving the RR for the time being.

Many thanks again for your valuable input.
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  • #119
  • Jul 7, 2013 9:13pm Jul 7, 2013 9:13pm
Quoting ghous
{quote} A few things here, 1) I never mix and merge my time frames. I know contesting viewpoints say that each time frame is just a differently chopped up version of price reacting in an area but I have honestly simplified my life and eliminated headaches from my trading actions since I have started dealing with each time frame separately. A bias towards towards one time frame more than the others helps the cause. 2) the kind of order flow information you need for fake out scenarios is more adequately met by highs and lows (i.e HHR and LLS) as opposed...

Many things to ponder here, which is great.
I need some time to really think about these.

Concerning the HCR or LCS time frame which the PBT&CA or below, I have some thoughts about the dimension of time in the penetration of a HCR or LCS level.
Well, it is not really time but the actual depth of the penetration. However, as we all know, the greater the penetration of an area, the more space this creates for price to move through after the pullback and RT. I am also pondering if it is not just about space but time?
Time in the sense that, the more time there is before the pullback, will allow more people to actually see the setup and possibly convince them that, the sell orders above are insufficient to force price below a former resistance area which may now act as support.

I could be way off here but, this is how I am thinking about the depth of penetration.
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  • #120
  • Edited 10:31pm Jul 7, 2013 9:16pm | Edited 10:31pm
Quoting LamerTrader
{quote} Bammm and There Was Light Again! I gotta admit I had to read certain parts twice til i got it 100%... And then I was like Baaaam. Wooooow. And really It makes sense... At all these setups only the timeframe differs. I mean at pinbar the whole breakout- and order-overloading happens in one day, til in the cases of Engulfing bars and Inside bars they happen in 2 days. And also: We like the Engoulfing bars better, since the "Pushing" momentum of the "big hands" were greater then in the case of the Inside Bars. So we got nothing...
Not sure what you mean about "PBs breaking out in one day and Outside bars and IBs breaking out in two days.
I see all Daily PA either breaking on the next bar or in two days.

In the case of the daily PA bar not breaking on the next daily bar, people like Mike will not take the trade as it is a sign of lack of momentum and order flow.

Can't see that an Outside bar has more momentum than a PB, it can't really when you think about it as, they are both simply extensions of order flow.

I lean more these days towards not the bars themselves but, the area they came off being more important.

Probably due to the influence of the SFP.

Just trying to keep it as simple as possible.

Hope you can grasp what I mean.

My experience since I started here at FF some years ago is, one day, I think I work something out only to discard it a few days later.
Possibly, this is how we learn and is necessary in the process of understanding the big picture.

Not that I understand it all yet, nowhere near, I am just getting my feet wet.
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