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  • #3,581
  • May 23, 2013 4:11am May 23, 2013 4:11am
Quoting mmaker
{quote}Go to RAPACapIntro and ask directly the traders on the Major League board. Here on FF you are getting answers from people trading Demo or figuring out their ego on $500 micro-lot accounts. Talk to the right people. Yes they are a big deal over there making ONLY 12-15% a year return.
Well you are actually supporting his argument. 15% is a big deal in the hedge fund space but not with 1 mill AUM.

There are only a few on that list with an AUM over 1,000,000 (only 5) and the only one with 22 mill had a 17% DD and a performance of 6% (nothing close to Chris' performance). Interestingly the ones with 2 and 3 mill AUM also have some of the lowest performance rates 2-3%). Is this due to size? Not sure. You would have to give the assets to the guy returning 50% to see what would happen.
  • #3,582
  • May 23, 2013 4:39am May 23, 2013 4:39am
Quoting fxterrapin
{quote} Well you are actually supporting his argument. 15% is a big deal in the hedge fund space but not with 1 mill AUM. There are only a few on that list with an AUM over 1,000,000 (only 5) and the only one with 22 mill had a 17% DD and a performance of 6% (nothing close to Chris' performance). Interestingly the ones with 2 and 3 mill AUM also have some of the lowest performance rates 2-3%). Is this due to size? Not sure. You would have to give the assets to the guy returning 50% to see what would happen.
I'm no expert on hedge funds, i'm not one and don't want to be, I am on the other hand pretty good with common sense... If I was going to invest 100k with a hedge fund I would prefer to see small steady returns as opposed to massive swings, big profits can also mean larger drawdowns...It makes sense for the hedge funds to present what the investor / client wants to see.
tradewith60
  • #3,583
  • May 23, 2013 4:49am May 23, 2013 4:49am
Quoting mmaker
{quote} I will delete this post as I know I will get flak from the 10+ vouches know-it-alls.
Ahem, you got something to say, bro?
  • #3,584
  • May 23, 2013 4:56am May 23, 2013 4:56am
mmaker, he is essentially asking what we were discussing over PM a few days ago:

Where are the 50 mill AUM funds that are returning 100% with minimal DD. (i.e. Chris level perf)? Frankly, if liquidity constraints were not an issue (and at this point I cannot be sure to what extent they are) Chris he could pretty much demand a 2/35 fee structure and still attract plenty of capital (if he maintained 10%/month with minimal DD).
  • #3,585
  • May 23, 2013 5:11am May 23, 2013 5:11am
Quoting Seneca pilot
Many of the levels that BRV trades do line up with these price levels.

A thing of beauty:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=6701939#post6701939
  • #3,586
  • May 23, 2013 5:11am May 23, 2013 5:11am
Mr Terrapin you are speaking from my heart. These were exactly my lines of thought.

Mmaker thanks for the link, I saved it so if you chose to delete it you can, though I don't think you need to.

Just like everywhere else in the trading world there wil always be the 5% of traders who know what they are doing, and it's no different on FF.

The thing is that Chris magicaly manages to attract to his thread a very high density of those 5% and that is why it's so good to be here.

Thanks for all the answers untill now, and please keep it coming guys.
"Always be yourself " Batman
  • #3,587
  • May 23, 2013 5:19am May 23, 2013 5:19am
What most people on this board overlook when they sneer at underperforming Hedge Funds, is, that most founders have a good chunk (if not all) of their own money invested in their fund. So naturally they will play it more conservative than the average Forex freak gambler living in his basement (scnr).
  • #3,588
  • May 23, 2013 6:45am May 23, 2013 6:45am
Quoting fxterrapin
mmaker, he is essentially asking what we were discussing over PM a few days ago: Where are the 50 mill AUM funds that are returning 100% with minimal DD. (i.e. Chris level perf)? Frankly, if liquidity constraints were not an issue (and at this point I cannot be sure to what extent they are) Chris he could pretty much demand a 2/35 fee structure and still attract plenty of capital (if he maintained 10%/month with minimal DD).
What is a 2/35 structure?
2% basic and 35% of earnings fee?
"Always be yourself " Batman
  • #3,589
  • May 23, 2013 6:57am May 23, 2013 6:57am
Quoting rdsl
{quote} What is a 2/35 structure?2% basic and 35% of earnings fee?
Exactly. Even with higher risk than we have been discussing here, the performance fee can be determined by a hurdle rate. So up to a 40% performance fee is possible for a 50% gross return. Hey, those champagne parties in the Hamptons with the bikini girls don't come cheap...
  • #3,590
  • May 23, 2013 7:17am May 23, 2013 7:17am
Quoting fxterrapin
{quote} Exactly. Even with higher risk than we have been discussing here, the performance fee can be determined by a hurdle rate. So up to a 40% performance fee is possible for a 50% gross return. Hey, those champagne parties in the Hamptons with the bikini girls don't come cheap...

Inserted Video
"Always be yourself " Batman
  • #3,591
  • May 23, 2013 7:40am May 23, 2013 7:40am
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} I'm no expert on hedge funds, i'm not one and don't want to be, I am on the other hand pretty good with common sense... If I was going to invest 100k with a hedge fund I would prefer to see small steady returns as opposed to massive swings, big profits can also mean larger drawdowns...It makes sense for the hedge funds to present what the investor / client wants to see.
Yes, anyone with 80k in the bank getting only just above inflation in interest would jump at a 'safe' 10%pa fund. As suggested, these funds probably do closer to 100% and pay out 10-15% while keeping the rest. These guys are not saints, big bonus culture, cooking the books, clients are second on the list. Regulated my arse.
  • #3,592
  • May 23, 2013 8:02am May 23, 2013 8:02am
Quoting stevexyg
{quote} Yes, anyone with 80k in the bank getting only just above inflation in interest would jump at a 'safe' 10%pa fund. As suggested, these funds probably do closer to 100% and pay out 10-15% while keeping the rest. These guys are not saints, big bonus culture, cooking the books, clients are second on the list. Regulated my arse.
boo hiss to it all anyway, who's interested in hedge funds... I wanna just make a couple of Łk a week and disappear out the back end of Thailand for a few years (with the odd hell raising session in Shanghai or Hong Kong, no ones a saint!)...

I think a lot of people seem to think they need to be like a bank, trade like a bank or know how a bank trades, makes no odds the who's, why's or how's....

At the end of the day, we all see the same price on the chart.

Can we go back to talking about SR pweeease
tradewith60
  • #3,593
  • May 23, 2013 8:11am May 23, 2013 8:11am
Quoting rdsl
Mr Terrapin you are speaking from my heart. These were exactly my lines of thought. Mmaker thanks for the link, I saved it so if you chose to delete it you can, though I don't think you need to. Just like everywhere else in the trading world there wil always be the 5% of traders who know what they are doing, and it's no different on FF. The thing is that Chris magicaly manages to attract to his thread a very high density of those 5% and that is why it's so good to be here. Thanks for all the answers untill now, and please...
Apart from SP, who else is in the top 5%? Hilar?
As mmaker said, most people here are trading demo or micro account.
As Hilar said "Give a live call and maybe you have some weight...".
Talking elsewhere, even the phenomenal james16 on FF, there is no evidence that he actually trades himself.
So, who else do you think is in the top 5% here?
  • #3,594
  • May 23, 2013 8:40am May 23, 2013 8:40am
No wonder so many of you can't trade you are all to worried about who is successful and who is not, focus on yourselves and not on what everyone else is doing. SP has provide a very simple way of looking at the markets and has shown that he is successful and many of you still can not grasp it, so what is the point of learning who is good and who is not if you can't even take what SP has shown you on here and make it work.
  • #3,595
  • Edited 9:01am May 23, 2013 8:46am | Edited 9:01am
Quoting endroute
No wonder so many of you can't trade you are all to worried about who is successful and who is not, focus on yourselves and not on what everyone else is doing. SP has provide a very simple way of looking at the markets and has shown that he is successful and many of you still can not grasp it, so what is the point of learning who is good and who is not if you can't even take what SP has shown you on here and make it work.
If you don't think someone trades successfully himself, you wouldn't bother to look into his method seriously, right or wrong?
Would you spend thousands of hours to grasp a method, if the method developer is a failure?
Often, I come here for relaxation (and gossip sometimes), when I have some time gaps between more serious tasks. So, I don't think visiting FF will stop me from working hard... . Methodwise, I wouldn't take serious for what said by people other than SP.
  • #3,596
  • May 23, 2013 8:52am May 23, 2013 8:52am
Look, normally I would never answer a quetion like this . But man you are just asking for it! So here you go:

Quoting kk007
{quote}.So, who else do you think is in the top 5% here?
X H A L E

I don't know if he trades or not but i'm learning a lot from his answers.
(Those who followed the thread for the last couple of months faithfully,will understand this private joke)
Sorry man but you really asked for it.
"Always be yourself " Batman
  • #3,597
  • May 23, 2013 8:54am May 23, 2013 8:54am
Quoting rdsl
Look, normally I would never answer a quetion like this . But man you are just asking for it! So here you go: {quote} X H A L E I don't know if he trades or not but i'm learning a lot from his answers.(Those who followed the thread for the last couple of months faithfully,will understand this private joke)Sorry man but you really asked for it.
No need to sorry, I totally agree with you! And yes, he teaches a lot (but those are something I've already known)!
There are lots of great teachers on FF ( but I don't if they trades or not).
Apart from james16, jacko is one of them: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=27286
  • #3,598
  • May 23, 2013 8:56am May 23, 2013 8:56am
I may still manage money but it will be accredited investors when and if I decide to proceed.

Let's clear up some things. I trade normally somewhere between eight and twelve standard lots depending on stop size. I have little trouble getting in and out without moving anything. Now lets say I manage 25-30 million dollars. Now I have to move 100 times that size. I will start to have major problems with execution moving 800 to 1200 lots. I would be thrilled to average ten percent per month moving that size. It would be more likely that I would have trouble getting half that return. A money manager must devote much of the time of his or her staff to moving that much size. You have to naturally move into higher time horizons for your trades in order to get in and out without moving things too much and to give yourself room to maneuver. Stops move wider and therefore leverage and position size have to get smaller. Smaller position sizes mean less profits.

Look at PTJ. His primary focus in every interview and spoken record is risk. Caution is king when you manage billions. When your two percent management fee is sixty plus million a year you will do absolutely nothing to risk losing the capital. You naturally become more conservative and careful in your trading. Twenty percent per year is amazing when you begin to contemplate the difficulty of investing that much capital with a little leverage applied. When you start to think about the fact that you only need three percent per month to outperform ninety percent of the money managers in the industry then the things I have been talking about with respect to being super selective with trades make more sense.

The 37% I made in April is as much a function of the size of the account as it was a display of real life. I am a small investor and I have the luxury of knowing that I will not pull my own funds out if I have a draw down. Money managers don't have that luxury and are therefore always on the defensive and trading super conservatively. In that same month if I were managing fifty million I would probably have only taken half the trades and for smaller risk. Maybe I would have made five percent or perhaps even eight or ten but I would never have reached 37. More and more each day I move in the direction of this type of trading. It is Thursday. I began cautiously making trades in my main account again on Monday. I have only made seven trades this week. Now that I have had a bruise last week and returned to extreme caution and sparing trading I have actually wiped out the losses and am back in profit for the month. Maybe I got lucky but I shorted UJ and GJ yesterday afternoon and I actually held for a decent profit target.

I am turning a corner with respect to my trade management. I am slowly changing into taking less trades and holding them for larger gains. I feel that after a few more months working on this I may be ready to begin slowly taking on some money to manage. I have been working in my test account for quite a while on moving into longer trades that have more reliable triggers. One of these is the "express" trades that I spelled out here on Tuesday. The key to money management is small risks that can be held for nice gains. Taking fifteen or even five trades per day will not get it done if you are managing large sums. It is too much risk and not enough payoff.

Here are the trades. I erased all trigger information from the screen as I am not ready to discuss the reason for these trades yet.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gj.gif Size: 16 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: uj.gif Size: 16 KB
  • #3,599
  • May 23, 2013 9:39am May 23, 2013 9:39am
Quoting endroute
No wonder so many of you can't trade you are all to worried about who is successful and who is not, focus on yourselves and not on what everyone else is doing. SP has provide a very simple way of looking at the markets and has shown that he is successful and many of you still can not grasp it, so what is the point of learning who is good and who is not if you can't even take what SP has shown you on here and make it work.

^^^^^

Worth repeating... how many times now in this thread? Yet, it's the same few who just don't get it. Those individuals really need to take a step back to focus on the limiting beliefs they have, clear that issue up and start anew.
  • #3,600
  • May 23, 2013 9:45am May 23, 2013 9:45am
Quoting TantumVerum
{quote} ^^^^^ Worth repeating... how many times now in this thread? Yet, it's the same few who just don't get it. Those individuals really need to take a step back to focus on the limiting beliefs they have, clear that issue up and start anew.
Why you all continue to waste your breath on KK is beyond me....
What is any ocean but a multitude of drops?
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