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How difficult is it to find an effective daytrading method?

  • #101
  • May 16, 2013 7:01pm May 16, 2013 7:01pm
Quoting pemully
{quote} wow! couldn't have said better.
Yes, from experience. Been there, done that. Was once with sophisticated team of statisticians, mathematicians, programmers. And once the systems were built, the structure of equity market changed. If you think about it, it is only logical that something which involves skill -- either a discretionary strategy or a super advanced mechanical one used by Renaissance -- is going to perform best. Skill can be learned, just like Forexalien says in the post above this one. But you must put in the time backtesting to see what works.

Successful traders are most likely people who can take the initiative to run with an idea and see if it works. On their own. They are self-starters. They do not want to be spoon-fed. As Xhale says, to become great at anything, be it tennis or chess or piano, you must eat it, sleep it, and breathe it. You never complain about the hours put into it, because you are passionate about it. This is your raison d'etre.

A tough day in the life of a trader is many times better than a great day in the life of one with a boring job. Or put another way: A tough day in the life of a free man is many times better than a great day in the life of a slave.

Best trading to all
  • #102
  • May 22, 2013 5:14am May 22, 2013 5:14am
Quoting California
{quote}You never complain about the hours put into it, because you are passionate about it.
Agree! Even if it takes more than 10000 hours...
  • #103
  • May 22, 2013 6:13am May 22, 2013 6:13am
Quoting California
{quote} You never complain about the hours put into it, because you are passionate about it. This is your raison d'etre. A tough day in the life of a trader is many times better than a great day in the life of one with a boring job. Or put another way: A tough day in the life of a free man is many times better than a great day in the life of a slave. Best trading to all
good post, thanks for sharing
  • #104
  • May 22, 2013 6:47am May 22, 2013 6:47am
Quoting CindyXXXX
How hard is it to find and effective day trading method? Firstly as you read many of the posts here (mine included) remember that every poster is more than aware that 95% fail in trading. No one here wants to be in that group. Just a thought! I don't think I ever FOUND an effective trading method. But what is effective to you may be useless to me, most of the mum and dad investors that roam these forums have quite a lot more to invest the markets and so are happy to settle for a medicare way of viewing the markets and this is enough for them....
X2
H.D
  • #105
  • May 22, 2013 7:14am May 22, 2013 7:14am
From my experience (fx trading for over seven years) I think trading different time frames successfully largely depends on ones risk tolerance. I have tried trading shorter time frames and have always been beaten up badly. I trade the dailies with my own system and it work nicely for me.

I have also tried a wide range of systems posted on FF, none worked for any length of time. Getting a handle on exactly what kind of risk you can handle without losing sleep and then trading the TF that fits in with that time frame is how, in my view, you have to go about trading the FX.

One last point good solid money management with ample reserves is critical as well
  • #106
  • May 22, 2013 10:16am May 22, 2013 10:16am
Certainly its not very much easy for us to find the trading system which can bring us good consistent profits. Almost in the first year of my trading career i have only lost money and in the second year i have traded well but still failed because of unreasonable target and emotional imbalance. Now, in my third year of trading i have rectified the mistakes made and slightly improving myself with more than 50% winning probability trades now. Its worth the difficulty taken.
  • #107
  • May 24, 2013 12:08pm May 24, 2013 12:08pm
Kk,

Trading is all about finding the right combination of indicators. It IS possible to find a combinatio that will be profitable over 40% of the time if you just give it some time.
Chec out the system Extreme TMA system. I belive theyhave found the key to the trade.
It seems to me that youre not willing to commit yourself hard enough.
Trading is a tough life. You have to accept to swallow the bear feces and even sell your granny if thats what it takes.
Swedish steel!
  • #108
  • Edited 8:54pm May 24, 2013 8:03pm | Edited 8:54pm
Quoting grovsnus
Kk, Trading is all about finding the right combination of indicators. It IS possible to find a combinatio that will be profitable over 40% of the time if you just give it some time.Chec out the system Extreme TMA system. I belive theyhave found the key to the trade.It seems to me that youre not willing to commit yourself hard enough.Trading is a tough life. You have to accept to swallow the bear feces and even sell your granny if thats what it takes.
Thanks for your feedback, by the way, how difficult do you think to adpot or develop an effective daytrading method?
Ok, I will consider very difficult, if it requires thousands of hours. Difficult if it requires hundreds of hours.
I have committed thousands of hours, 4 full years, and you?
Please don't drive this discussion to my trading ability or my own personal life. This is a objective and impersonal discussion. If you think this kind of discussion are meaningless or a waste of time, that is ok, and you don't need to participate here.
  • #109
  • May 24, 2013 9:46pm May 24, 2013 9:46pm
Hi kk007,

Let me start with this quote I just read today:

Although the cheetah is the fastest animal in the world and can catch any animal on the plains, it will wait until it is absolutely sure it can catch its prey. It may hide in the bush for a week, waiting for just the right moment. It will wait for a baby antelope, and not just any baby antelope, preferably one that is sick or lame. Only then, where there is no chance it can lose it's prey, does it attack. That, to me, is the epitome of professional trading. - Mark Weinstein.

And Mark's statement agrees with the saying of another experienced trader - "trading requires the patience of a saint and the discipline of a soldier."

I will tell you that almost every trading system works but failure comes due to the lack of patience and discipline. The day I realized I do not need to trade every day or every move, and that I only needed 5 - 7 good setups in the month to earn a good and comfortable living was the day my trading changed. And yes I still allow my emotions to get the better part of me but I am seriously working on that.

Take a look at the attached chart - it is a combination of 3 things - trend, currency strength/weakness and momentum. I trade the HTF on the LTF, and enter only on currency strength/weakness. The linear currency strength meter on the chart is on the M1 TF to alert me to the slightest change, except during high impact news releases. What works for me may not work for you, and what works for you may not work for me. You have to develop your own personal trading system, keep it simple as much as possible with few trading rules to follow, and adhere strictly to the rules. I have learnt from several forums/threads and paid courses over the last 3+ years, and come up with what works for me but will not work for another person.

Just my humble 2 cents, which is very limited to my little experience too.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: audjpy - 5242013.gif Size: 214 KB
Low Risk Low Stress High Reward High Probability Trades
  • #110
  • May 24, 2013 10:12pm May 24, 2013 10:12pm
Quoting 919gilead
Hi kk007, Let me start with this quote I just read today: Although the cheetah is the fastest animal in the world and can catch any animal on the plains, it will wait until it is absolutely sure it can catch its prey. It may hide in the bush for a week, waiting for just the right moment. It will wait for a baby antelope, and not just any baby antelope, preferably one that is sick or lame. Only then, where there is no chance it can lose it's prey, does it attack. That, to me, is the epitome of professional trading. - Mark Weinstein. And Mark's statement...

love this quotes sir,,,sound like a cliche,,,but very powerful and reliable,, I believe it,,

"trading requires the patience of a saint and the discipline of a soldier."
(unknown)
patience and discipline
patience and discipline
patience and discipline

salaam
  • #111
  • May 24, 2013 10:27pm May 24, 2013 10:27pm
Quoting 919gilead
Hi kk007, Let me start with this quote I just read today: Although the cheetah is the fastest animal in the world and can catch any animal on the plains, it will wait until it is absolutely sure it can catch its prey. It may hide in the bush for a week, waiting for just the right moment. It will wait for a baby antelope, and not just any baby antelope, preferably one that is sick or lame. Only then, where there is no chance it can lose it's prey, does it attack. That, to me, is the epitome of professional trading. - Mark Weinstein.

Thanks, I heard this quote long before.
  • #112
  • May 25, 2013 12:41am May 25, 2013 12:41am
Kk,
I think it's apparent that noone has an effective daytrading method and/or are unwilling to share as demonstrated in this thread.
All you get is bullshit quotes and references to psychology.
Swedish steel!
  • #113
  • May 25, 2013 6:16am May 25, 2013 6:16am
Quoting kk007
{quote} As said in Post#1 : I am interested in hearing from someone who have already been successful in using a daytrading method.
Hello kk007,

How do you know who is successful in using a daytrading method?
  • #114
  • May 25, 2013 6:27am May 25, 2013 6:27am
Quoting kk007
{quote} As said in Post#1 : I am interested in hearing from someone who have already been successful in using a daytrading method. I want to know how hard is it in their opinion. On one extreme, someone think they can easily find one on a forum, and as far as they train their discipline hard enough they can win with it. While on the other extreme, someone don't believe there exist a daytrading method in the world can win in the long run.
Once again: Retail daytraders are ~99.7% losers, so I wouldn´t bother and find something more worthwhile to do with my time. Try swing/position trading.
  • #115
  • Edited 10:12am May 25, 2013 7:18am | Edited 10:12am
Quoting Dem
{quote} Hello kk007, How do you know who is successful in using a daytrading method?

I don't know. I just said I am interested in ....

whatever I heard from here, they were just what I heard from here.

unless someone shares his trade explorer, I would never be able to know if he is really trading or just talking.

My feeling is that many people sharing/teaching how to trade/ how to find the way here are not successful themselves, they learn the "attitude" or "truth" by hearsay or limited experience in trading. Nevertheless, no one know the real fact!
  • #116
  • May 25, 2013 9:48am May 25, 2013 9:48am
Finally found a thread I can latch on to and get to know the FF community. Yes, it is hard to find a daytrading method. It is hard because people get in their own way. I think people who want someone to show them a method that works is phishing, so kudos to the OP for not being a phisherman. If you want to find a method that works, you must study price action as it relates to time. Nothing anyone has not heard before I am sure, but nonetheless, it is all true. Here in FF there are threads that point to the truth. But a trader has to get out of their own way and get out of their own head, and run the business.

I will say that it is a bit harder to make money if you trade only part time, because you are missing components of price action. It is possible tho with the right perspective and the right time frame. If a trader does not trade full time, then s/he is a swing trader by definition. That is my opinion. Treat that accordingly.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #117
  • May 25, 2013 11:11am May 25, 2013 11:11am
Quoting Red Herring
I think its a great idea for inviting effective day-trading method but I am afraid, there will be none...lets see, I would love to see someone posting ....

I would ask that a trader stop trading setups, and trade price.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #118
  • May 25, 2013 12:02pm May 25, 2013 12:02pm
I don't really care if a poster has vouches or trade explorer. I'm more concerned with the information presented and how I can use it to better my own trading. Someone can be a great liar and claim to be a multi-billionaire trader while on demo, but if I can use the information provided (at free of charge of course) and apply it to my own trading through forward/back testing then I'm all for it. Conversely, someone can have a godlike return on tradeexplorer but if I can't properly utilize the method then its meaningless....

Bottom line, you cannot mimic 100% of what another trader is doing. The best traders learned to apply what they experienced and learned and personify it according to what they can do (risk tolerance, rules, etc) not follow blindly at the rules set by others. Keep mine, those rules set by others are for themselves and in no way should/would match your own personality.
  • #119
  • May 26, 2013 5:05am May 26, 2013 5:05am
Quoting biDc
I don't really care if a poster has vouches or trade explorer. I'm more concerned with the information presented and how I can use it to better my own trading. Someone can be a great liar and claim to be a multi-billionaire trader while on demo, but if I can use the information provided (at free of charge of course) and apply it to my own trading through forward/back testing then I'm all for it.
I don't really care if a poster has vouches, but I do care if he can trade. If the information you want is "attitude" or "direction", that is ok. Nevertheless, if the information you want is about particular trading methods, it would be a different story. If someone develops and preaches a trading method that he keeps failing with, is it meaningful to study such a trading method? Do you think a failed method can be used for trading success? Or, do you think a trader can just take any method to win, as far as he has the right attitude?
  • #120
  • May 27, 2013 11:35am May 27, 2013 11:35am
There is an interview with one of the worlds most successful independent traders - Paul Rotter. I have read the interview thoroughly dozens of times, however after reading it during one of the lowest points in my life a couple of months ago something jumped out at me. His confidence. It got me to thinking that your method should be secondary to your confidence in reading the market. My theory being that once you are confident in reading the market you can use a multitude of methods and be successful.

Another source of inspiration I regularly draw from is Schwager's Market Wizards books. In The New Market Wizards there is an interview with Tom Basso. On page 292, the last question and his answer follow:

Schwager: If you were starting out as a trader today, knowing what you know now, what would you do differently than the first time around?

Tom Basso: I started out by worrying about the system I was going to use to trade. The second factor I worked on was risk management and volatility control. The third area I focused on was the psychology of trading. If I had it to do over again, I would reverse the process completely. I think investment psychology is by far the most important element, followed by risk control, with the least important consideration being the question of where you buy and sell.
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