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Ramblings of a Forex Junkie

  • #3,441
  • May 19, 2013 11:49pm May 19, 2013 11:49pm
Quoting fxterrapin
{quote} If the legal agreement is air tight, the investors have little recourse (esp. if they are accredited). In fact, this is one of the biggest criticisms against the HF and CTA industry. The investors take all the risk, the managers get all the fees.
100%. Very little risk, especially when your advisory firm is an LLC or corporation, which shields your personal assets from liability. The "corporate veil."

Most managers that believe in themselves and their strategy have their own dough next to their investors in the fund. So they are at risk just like the investors, and many times more so because they have more of their net worth in the fund than do the investors.
  • #3,442
  • May 20, 2013 1:02am May 20, 2013 1:02am
Any one located in Tampa?
I am there and would love to meet with other traders.
Maybe set up a group to meet once or twice a week?
Thanks.
  • #3,443
  • May 20, 2013 8:36am May 20, 2013 8:36am
Hey Junkie,

Just getting a general gist of the latest happenings, as I gather you took some hits as the market shape shifted last week. Well I don't need to tell you that this sort of sh*t happens to us mere mortals from time to time. I also don't need to tell you that the more it hurt the stronger it will make you. Second to this, actually no that's the end of my love letter.

It's good what you've done with this thread...but.. I have no idea how you do this and trade at the same time. Does funny things to the most important tool in trading we have left of the steal...Our ego... Bit of Junky time sounds like it would bein order.

Forget these people you owe them nothing, enough has been said.

G/L good sir

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H.D
  • #3,444
  • May 20, 2013 11:19am May 20, 2013 11:19am
Quoting Hyperion
Steve, 'like it. I have rules and I know when I break them that it will probably turn out badly, I allow myself to still even knowing that but with much smaller risk. I tell myself I need to do it as an outlet!
Yes Hyperion that's definitely a workable strategy to cope with an uncontrollable urge to break free from the restraint and discipline we need to impose upon ourselves when we become traders.

As an example, you could spend hours fretting and trying to stay disciplined but gradually draining your energy and loosing focus until near the end of the day you end up putting on a really silly trade and loosing your profits for the week. That is so easily done when you have been focusing all day and you suddenly get lazy and put on a 'sure thing' - just when liquidity is drying up. You then babysit this no-where trade for 4hrs before taking your losses. Anyone else been there?

Or on the other hand you can like you say fulfill the urge quickly when it arises by putting on a silly trade with very low risk (%). Get your impulsive trade out of the way as soon as you feel one coming on so that you can get back to the disciplined work you know you should really be doing.

It may work for some, others will want to be so self aware and controlled that that doesn't need to be a daily coping strategy. We are all going to deal with this tendency in different ways.

Any other coping strategies for impulsive trading out there? I know SP said he has a demo account for just this type of 'pressure release'.
  • #3,445
  • May 20, 2013 11:32am May 20, 2013 11:32am
Quoting stevexyg
{quote} Yes Hyperion that's definitely a workable strategy to cope with an uncontrollable urge to break free from the restraint and discipline we need to impose upon ourselves when we become traders. As an example, you could spend hours fretting and trying to stay disciplined but gradually draining your energy and loosing focus until near the end of the day you end up putting on a really silly trade and loosing your profits for the week. That is so easily done when you have been focusing all day and you suddenly get lazy and put on a 'sure thing'...
just takes time, little by little you improve, eventually you get to the point where you still have the impulse to trade.."ooh i'll get in before the close.." but you eventually realize that even if THAT trade wins in the long run it's not the way to go about being consistent....

Its a moment when the reality clicks and you're no longer desperate to rush in, you've sat through thousands of pointless drawdowns, you become tired of your own short cutting and finally settle into a systematic disciplined way of trading.

Your first hint you're getting there is when you can leave the charts when you're in a trade, walk away, close them down, or just go do something else... very few of us need to check every tick, very few make better decisions nursing trades, very few professionals end up trading that way... and why would you want to anyway...

im rambling on the rambling thread
tradewith60
  • #3,446
  • Edited 12:19pm May 20, 2013 11:38am | Edited 12:19pm
Quoting stevexyg
Any other coping strategies for impulsive trading out there?
Steve, what do you think of putting up a TradeExplorer display on our forum signature? It will force us to be accountable to ourselves in how we handle the account. No more thinking about trying this and that when "nobody is watching". The make-believe role of managing a "public" fund could instill certain discipline and integrity in carrying out our trading routine and implementing our trading plan.
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Quoting stevexyg
Or on the other hand you can like you say fulfill the urge quickly when it arises by putting on a silly trade with very low risk (%). Get your impulsive trade out of the way as soon as you feel one coming on so that you can get back to the disciplined work you know you should really be doing.
It's like shooting with bow and arrow. The discipline work is in the drawing of the bow. Once the arrow leaves the string you can't talk of discipline anymore. When you have a silly trade on, you don't get back to discipline unless you kill that impulsive trade and sit back with no open positions.
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #3,447
  • May 20, 2013 11:53am May 20, 2013 11:53am
Quoting 60minuteman
im rambling on the rambling thread
Welcome to the club

Yes. A traders general approach will often decide whether they actually need to think about developing a coping strategy or don't need to. When you have a long history of reaping the results of your own indiscipline you naturally and without effort avoid those mistakes. Analogous to if you fall off your bike enough times you eventually naturally learn not to fall off anymore - without any effort.

A question - do you learn to ride a bike, or do you just learn not to fall off? In other words, maybe all you need to do to become a 'successful trader' is not make bad mistakes. Good entries are easy. It's easy to sell yesterdays high, childs play. But it's so much easier to come out too early, choose a bad entry, risk too much or panic and take 10pips when you should have taken 40.

As we know discipline is the ultimate traders tool. Better than any indi so far invented. So today we learn that discipline can be forced, it can be squeezed out of impulsive behaviour, and it can also come naturally.

How's that for a ramble? Come back and see me when you can ramble like that.
  • #3,448
  • May 20, 2013 12:30pm May 20, 2013 12:30pm
Quoting mmaker
{quote} Steve, what do you think of putting up a TradeExplorer display on our forum signature? It will force us to be accountable to ourselves in how we handle the account. No more thinking about trying this and that when "nobody is watching". The make-believe role of managing a "public" fund could instill certain discipline and integrity in carrying out our trading routine and implementing trading plan. {image}
That's a really excellent idea for all the reasons you mention. I would caution anyone however that you need to first think about your inner reasons for doing that. We all think we are the best of traders when infact we can't trade ourselves out of a paper bag - well I certainly can't. So for many the putting up of their trades will simply become an exercise in ego reinforcement. If anyone does it to make themselves 'look good' the real danger is they will inevitably do badly and take a massive knock to their confidence. That's not good. However if you are doing it for the right reasons - to allow yourself to become more disciplined - then it can't but help.

Everyone is more controlled with an audience. There are things we do alone - like burping or scraping out earwax - that we wouldn't dream of doing infront of the in-laws. Well some of us wouldn't. So yes having a public record has the potential to bring out the best in us.

It is also a great way to learn about your own trading, to have a detailed log of what you did and to look at that history at a quiet time with a clear head.
  • #3,449
  • May 20, 2013 12:44pm May 20, 2013 12:44pm
As we know Chris found having everything public caused a bit of unexpected stress at first as he felt he needed to 'prove' his strategy to an extent. I think he said that was born out of him feeling responsible for an approach he was recomending in a public way. Understandable but not something that anyone other than a thread creator should be effected by.
  • #3,450
  • Edited 1:23pm May 20, 2013 1:03pm | Edited 1:23pm
Quoting stevexyg
As we know Chris found having everything public caused a bit of unexpected stress at first as he felt he needed to 'prove' his strategy to an extent. I think he said that was born out of him feeling responsible for an approach he was recomending in a public way. Understandable but not something that anyone other than a thread creator should be effected by.
How many times have you seen thread starters saying that: "I just taught my 9 year old to trade this system", "I bought the new house", "I bought my new car", "Nobody should have a bad day on an easy day like today", "I made enough today to ____ (fill in the blank)", "If you will just follow this simple plan", "This is vital for your success", "It's not that I'm bragging", "It's like shooting fish in a barrel today", "I have bad trades, I have losing days, I rarely have a losing week, I never had a losing month", "4 for 4 today", "I make good money I don't need to prove this", etc. Having the TradeExplorer or Myfxbook out in public helps to clean these all up.

My all-time favorite "last post" by a forum guru who was forced to show TradeExplorer or Myfxbook on his very popular thread,
Quoting loveevery1
The Day has come..... I came to help you guys with absolutely no intention of getting anything in return. All i got from you are heartburns. After all my heartbreaks i was still sticking to this thread for the sake of others..... Trust me folks..... im crying.... now. Whoever wants to learn Forex..... This thread is a GEM....You will not find it anywhere..... on the planet..... just with my posts..... you can quit ur job..... im not a great trader as you might think..... but overall im profitable..... what i have taught here..... works..... i dont need to prove rather no one needs to prove to anyone..... That you guys will not see me ever..... hear from me..... Now you know i was not here to make money.
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #3,451
  • May 20, 2013 1:09pm May 20, 2013 1:09pm
Quoting stevexyg
{quote} Welcome to the club Yes. A traders general approach will often decide whether they actually need to think about developing a coping strategy or don't need to. When you have a long history of reaping the results of your own indiscipline you naturally and without effort avoid those mistakes. Analogous to if you fall off your bike enough times you eventually naturally learn not to fall off anymore - without any effort. A question - do you learn to ride a bike, or do you just learn not to fall off? In other words, maybe all you need to...
i see your 4 and raise you 10

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tradewith60
  • #3,452
  • Edited 1:41pm May 20, 2013 1:20pm | Edited 1:41pm
Quoting mmaker
How many times have you seen thread starters saying that:
Yes maybe. Ofcourse there are a lot of scammers and wannabe's in all walks of life and that explains some of what you mention. But I'd say you shouldn't need to see a thread starters trades to know if they are the real thing or not. Look at the approach they are offering, check out how knowledgeable about the market they are, back test their methods, is their claimed success possible if the method is followed? That's all you need to know and do. You should have the skills and knowledge base to tell if someone is legit or not. If you don't have that knowledge you are not ready to trade and need to keep reading up. We are not supposed to be robots following everyone and anyone with a great looking Myfxbook. You can't be successful by following others you need to learn to trade for yourself. But it's a hypothetical question, compulsory trading evidence will never be made a condition of starting a trading thread.
  • #3,453
  • Edited 1:31pm May 20, 2013 1:20pm | Edited 1:31pm
Quoting stevexyg
{quote} Welcome to the club Yes. A traders general approach will often decide whether they actually need to think about developing a coping strategy or don't need to. When you have a long history of reaping the results of your own indiscipline you naturally and without effort avoid those mistakes. Analogous to if you fall off your bike enough times you eventually naturally learn not to fall off anymore - without any effort. A question - do you learn to ride a bike, or do you just learn not to fall off? In other words, maybe all you need to...
I think you're hitting the nail on the head here Steve...

Trading is about learning not to fall off....

something I heard the other day...

you have a choice of 2 trading strategies, all we know is that they are both profitable, one has a hit rate of 70%, one has a hit rate of 30%....

Why is the 30% strategy better than the 70%... and would most, if not all (learning) traders pick the 70%...

Do we instinctively make the wrong choice....? is trading just simply doing what feels wrong... learning to fall off instead of trying to ride well...

I know I would pick the 30% win rate now... i'm pretty sure I wouldn't of 1 year ago though...

Right now I know I trade at around 50%, I get a little smirk when an entry losses, because I know statistically my next trade is more likely to win, I've got the wrong 'un out of the way, now it's time to get paid...
tradewith60
  • #3,454
  • May 20, 2013 1:38pm May 20, 2013 1:38pm
Quoting mmaker
{quote} How many times have you seen thread starters saying that: "I just taught my 9 year old to trade this system", "I bought the new house", "I bought my new car", "Nobody should have a bad day on an easy day like today", "I made enough today to ____ (fill in the blank)", "If you will just follow this simple plan", "This is vital for your success", "It's not that I'm bragging", "It's like shooting fish in a barrel today", "I have bad trades, I have losing days, I rarely have a losing week, I never had a losing month", "4...
I guess my simple response to this is...

You wouldn't understand if you haven't been there, so I understand your non-stop infatuation needing proof.

free forum = free advice

no pay for data = no show data

Why would you expect anything else?
  • #3,455
  • May 20, 2013 1:39pm May 20, 2013 1:39pm
Quoting 60minuteman
Right now I know I trade at around 50%, I get a little smirk when an entry losses, because I know statistically my next trade is more likely to win, I've got the wrong 'un out of the way, now it's time to get paid...
lol I like it. So you've given up on banging your keyboard up and down when you get a looser? lolz I need to work on that one.

Can't watch the vid only see a still when I click it says it's private but looks like a clip from a Robin Williams film?

All our lives we are sold the illusion of complete consumer freedom, that is what everyone aspires to trader or not. 'Money buys you happiness'.
Yet we need complete discipline to achieve freedom in this game, that's the paradox. But how can we be free when we are operating within the hated strict rules of our trading system/approach? I trade because I want to be free ergo I trade badly because I want to be free. Solve the riddle.
  • #3,456
  • Edited 2:21pm May 20, 2013 1:46pm | Edited 2:21pm
Quoting stevexyg
All our lives we are sold the illusion of complete consumer freedom, that is what everyone aspires to trader or not. 'Money buys you happiness'. Yet we need complete discipline to achieve freedom in this game, that's the paradox. But how can we be free when we are operating within the hated strict rules of our trading system/approach? I trade because I want to be free ergo I trade badly because I want to be free. Solve the riddle.
You are going in circles repeating this paradox from Mark Douglas, it doesn't necessarily affect EVERYONE ("..... I've worked with many traders who have achieved their objectives of consistency and haven't done anything to reconcile their backlog of denied impulses." - Mark Douglas)

He gave the solution at the end of the book, you know that.

Quoting stevexyg
I know not of Marks solution as I've not finished his book.
Finish the book, you will understand his paradox in proper context.
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #3,457
  • May 20, 2013 2:15pm May 20, 2013 2:15pm
Quoting mmaker
{quote} it doesn't necessarily affect EVERYONE
Everyone is affected on a fundamental level by their conditioning I think we agree on that? There are several solutions to 'unwanted reactions' in relation to the trading arena hence why we are talking about creating coping strategies and also methods of developing discipline. Just because Mark suggests you don't need to have psycho-analysis (which is what I believe he means there?) doesn't mean you can move on thinking 'that doesn't apply to me'. When you start trading for circa $100 a pip then you will know how you cope.

I know not of Marks solution as I've not finished his book.
  • #3,458
  • May 20, 2013 2:29pm May 20, 2013 2:29pm
Quoting mmaker
Finish the book, you will understand his paradox in proper context.
I will but it's not his paradox it's a paradox. He didn't invent or discover this and I wasn't aware he used the term. I'm not being pedantic just saying there are a lot of paradoxical things in life and trading just so happens to confront us with some pretty significant aspects of psyche.
  • #3,459
  • May 20, 2013 2:30pm May 20, 2013 2:30pm
[quote=mmaker;6692975]{quote} How many times have you seen thread starters saying that: "I just taught my 9 year old to trade this system", "I bought the new house", "I bought my new car", "Nobody should have a bad day on an easy day like today",

I just had to visit after being pinged about the 9 year old trader...
children are like sponges taking in all the information and my daughter was asking what I was doing ???? (trading) so I explained ( or tried) and then she told me I was trying to teach Elliot wave theory wrong lol.
she does trade and she actually told me about ema 20 ,ema 02 cross over on the hourly charts ( and it looks good) I do not trade it.
Guess what she does now??? she buys goods from boot sale (second hand) and then sells it on ebay, she says it is easier (even though she has over a 90% hit rate trading. so SP let your young ones enquire I know you will show them the right way.
as for the house ,car, boat, jet ski, bike that's why we trade.
a trader might lose mon, tues, wed and make the pips thur and he /she will say they had a good week , the losing is part of the game and it is rare to actually say the word (lose).. disregarding 2 pc malfunctions the last 40 hour period I lost is approx 4 years ago.
be good guys stick to what SP was saying ORB is the way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #3,460
  • May 20, 2013 2:42pm May 20, 2013 2:42pm
duh,,, the point I was making as you know my daughter is 9 ,,, happy days
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
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