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  • #1,241
  • Mar 22, 2013 10:54pm Mar 22, 2013 10:54pm
Yep totally with you, and as always yes there were

Mate I'm out of my apartment in less than a month, then off to London a month after that. Just getting my visa organised now. Everything's falling into place perfectly, so taking that as a sign it's the right time and the right move!

Quoting mongolian
Thanks for the input. I see your point. What I don't try to do when I'm trading is assume what when price is changing directions. So that is why I would have put on an order there. What I will do, if I'm doubtful maybe or if I have uncertainty, is I'll scale back on the size of my trade. I didn't trade the E$ yesterday so of course this is all hindsight. Either way, if a trader stuck to his guns and didn't play around with moving stops, etc. - there were plenty of opportunities even with the times being stopped out to make $$!

When are...
  • #1,242
  • Mar 26, 2013 5:16pm Mar 26, 2013 5:16pm
Thanks for the comments.
I see what you mean about a bias for shorts.
I've been trading on and off for about a year, not really committed to anything, just trying a few things.
So basically still a newbie (teenage son sounds appropriate).
I did some paper trading last night on the New York open (using the graph paper to get a clearer direction).
I didn't actually use my trading platform (I need to set up another demo account), just watched the chart and wrote down where I'd make trades.
Chart Attached (300 tick, only covers a few hours).
It was rather challenging as price stayed around the 1.2862/63 level.
Lots of shorts again, in hindsight I should have had a few longs.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #1,243
  • Mar 27, 2013 8:11am Mar 27, 2013 8:11am
Quoting finfx
Thanks for the comments.
I see what you mean about a bias for shorts.
I've been trading on and off for about a year, not really committed to anything, just trying a few things.
So basically still a newbie (teenage son sounds appropriate).
I did some paper trading last night on the New York open (using the graph paper to get a clearer direction).
I didn't actually use my trading platform (I need to set up another demo account), just watched the chart and wrote down where I'd make trades.
Chart Attached (300 tick, only covers a few hours).
It...
Got the kids on Spring Break this week - I'll take a look @ this @ end of week once we get back to the 'real' world. Anyone else want to take a stab at it - feel free.

M
  • #1,244
  • Apr 29, 2013 3:08am Apr 29, 2013 3:08am
Where do you stand with your trading? I have seen this before, but this is my take on it. I propose with trading or for really anything in your life, you will fall into one of these three categories. Interested. Committed. Dedicated.

Interested? Here, I'm intrigued by trading (or whatever it is I am possibly pursuing). I can see potential benefits, I am willing to explore it further possibly, but not really enough to go at it full time. Someone asks - Am I a trader - well, uh, I'm playing with it on the side....

Committed? I'm willing to spend and commit more time and resources. I think I've got something good here, I'm trying to work out my trading style and how I will go about this. Am i a trader? I desire to be, I'm actively pursuing it.... Am I? Eh - honestly, not yet.

Dedicated? I'm all in - fully completely dedicated. Doing whatever it takes to make it work. I have worked out my basic style, I have worked on myself and I am wholeheartedly pursuing this. Someone asks, I'm a trader.

I see it like the dance of a relationship. When I started noticing my wife before we ever started dating, I was @ that point - Interested. I'm intrigued, I can see benefits, willing to explore this further. Then we started dating. Dated at first, on again, off again, for a while. Not entirely sure what I was doing, but after about a year, I committed. I was willing to spend and commit time with her. I think I've got something good here.

Finally, and I remember the day clear AS it was yesterday, we were on spring break from school, spending pretty much every moment of the break together for that week. We were @ a bookstore in Lake Worth, FL (bookstore is no longer there - I recently checked). Don't remember what if anything we were looking for, but it was at that moment, that I knew I was dedicated. I knew, right then, right there, that she was the woman I was going to marry. Have we had problems since then? Of course, any relationship will. You are not living if you haven't come across issues. But I'm dedicated to her and we wholeheartedly pursue each other and making our marriage work. It'll be 19 years this December since we've been married - I am one blessed fella!

Mongolian
  • #1,245
  • Apr 29, 2013 8:30am Apr 29, 2013 8:30am
Congrats! A selfless warrior deserves only the best that life has to offer.
  • #1,246
  • May 10, 2013 11:04am May 10, 2013 11:04am
Hi mongolian,

Can you have a look at this chart of EU and mark up how you would have traded it? Blue arrows are shorts and the X means stopped out if using 6 pips stop.

I have been thinking of entering with half position at the levels with another half if price reached the next level and stop placed 6 pips above that.

For example short at 1.3025 another short at 1.3038 = avg price 1.3032 and stop placed at 1.3044
Total risk on full position is 13 pips.

The Green arrows are using the different risk model. Could just be pure coincidence but in this example no trade was a losing trade. Haven't done enough back testing to really compare results.

Appreciate any comments. Thanks

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #1,247
  • May 10, 2013 1:36pm May 10, 2013 1:36pm
what the different be twin thise method to the "renko" method , its looks the same to me.



Iam just A pips on the rode :nerd:
  • #1,248
  • May 11, 2013 8:10pm May 11, 2013 8:10pm
Quoting Sakk
Hi mongolian, Can you have a look at this chart of EU and mark up how you would have traded it? Blue arrows are shorts and the X means stopped out if using 6 pips stop. I have been thinking of entering with half position at the levels with another half if price reached the next level and stop placed 6 pips above that. For example short at 1.3025 another short at 1.3038 = avg price 1.3032 and stop placed at 1.3044 Total risk on full position is 13 pips. The Green arrows are using the different risk model. Could just be pure coincidence but in this...
I don't know that I need to mark up your chart. It looks pretty clean from here. There were a couple instances that weren't marked that I would have taken, but that's ok. Let me ask you about your stops. (I'm totally just working this out in my head as I type this). You say total risk on full position is 13 pips. Show me how that works. From where I sit, I see where you get average price. Correct me if I'm seeing this wrong. I'll assume 2 lots to keep math simple.

SL @ 1.3044
L1 @ 1.3025

Difference .0019

SL @ 1.3044
L2 @ 1.3038

Difference .0006

Total Potential SL = 25 pips.

If 'average' price is used - yeah - it's 12.5 pips loss total per Lot. Ok, I see that. Plus then Potential 'reward' for two lots would be 12.5 + 18 = 30.5 total pips OR 15(ish) average for the two. for a R:R of just over 1.

Honestly - never saw trading it that way. Couple things - one I'm a fan of, one I'm not. One thing I'm a fan of is the starting to trade with 1/2 size. I've outlined it before for others, and the math totally supports it.

If I start with 1/2 - say one lot - put it on with a 6 pip stop loss, and it goes against me, my total exposure is 6 pips. If however, it goes how I think and I have put on another @ 1/2 mark, (@ +6 pips) and it indeed goes the full distance, Now I'm @ total positive exposure of 18.5 pips. My SL was six, my TP @ 12.5 - my R:R is 3.

What you will commonly see is the flip of that. Start with two, SL of 6. Get stopped - I'm out 12 pips. If goes my way - I let one off @ 6 pips and let the other run. Say it goes to 12.5. Now my total positive exposure is 18.5 pips. Same as scenario above, yet my R:R is 1.5. Big difference.

What I'm not a fan of is adding to a losing position. Not saying that I it's wrong, just have always had trouble with that.

I will say that I'm totally intrigued and now I'm going to go back and look @ charts to see what potential there is here. Will put up what I see here. Thanks for the chart!!

Mongolian
  • #1,249
  • May 11, 2013 8:12pm May 11, 2013 8:12pm
Quoting -er-
what the different be twin thise method to the "renko" method , its looks the same to me.
If you are referring to how I plot out PA on my grid sheet, yeah - I guess it's similar. A bit, renko, a bit point and figure. Never said it wasn't.

Mongolian.
  • #1,250
  • May 12, 2013 5:56am May 12, 2013 5:56am
Quoting mongolian
{quote} If you are referring to how I plot out PA on my grid sheet, yeah - I guess it's similar. A bit, renko, a bit point and figure. Never said it wasn't. Mongolian.
any way , i like it !!!


Iam just A pips on the rode :nerd:
  • #1,251
  • May 12, 2013 7:23am May 12, 2013 7:23am
Thanks for the reply, just going over your figures and I get a different result. Please see below.

Quoting mongolian
{quote} Correct me if I'm seeing this wrong. I'll assume 2 lots to keep math simple. SL @ 1.3044 L1 @ 1.3025 Difference .0019 SL @ 1.3044 L2 @ 1.3038 Difference .0006 Total Potential SL = 25 pips. If 'average' price is used - yeah - it's 12.5 pips loss total per Lot. Ok, I see that.
Yep

Quoting mongolian
{quote} Plus then Potential 'reward' for two lots would be 12.5 + 18 = 30.5 total pips OR 15(ish) average for the two. for a R:R of just over 1.
It's actually 12.5 + 25.5 = 38 pips or 19 pips average for the two lots. The R:R is 1.5

Quoting mongolian
{quote} If I start with 1/2 - say one lot - put it on with a 6 pip stop loss, and it goes against me, my total exposure is 6 pips. If however, it goes how I think and I have put on another @ 1/2 mark, (@ +6 pips) and it indeed goes the full distance, Now I'm @ total positive exposure of 18.5 pips. My SL was six, my TP @ 12.5 - my R:R is 3.
After you add the 2nd position assuming you leave the initial stop at the original +6 pips from the 1st position your exposure on the 2nd position is 12 pips. Therefore 6 + 12 = 18 pips total risk if you get filled on the 2nd position and price reverses to hit your stop loss. The R:R is 1

Unless you manage this type of trade differently whereby once you enter on the 2nd trade you tighten your original stop to your 1st entry point making the 1st entry position at B/E and 2nd position has a risk of 6 pips. Please confirm if this is the case as it voids the calculation above!

One other thing i want to comment on and also ask the question whether you agree is the added strength of a level when one of the price levels is also a 50% fib retracement level of a previous swing. Visual backtesting shows these levels are a higher probability trade however they are sometimes one level below/above our initial entry which led me to thinking about entering half at first position and 2nd half at the fib level which coincides with the next level up/down.

I have posted one example below, I will add more charts when i can. Thanks again.


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #1,252
  • May 12, 2013 7:49am May 12, 2013 7:49am
Quoting -er-
{quote} any way , i like it !!!
Nice! Thanks for dropping in!

Mongolian
  • #1,253
  • May 12, 2013 12:37pm May 12, 2013 12:37pm
Quoting Sakk
Thanks for the reply, just going over your figures and I get a different result. Please see below. {quote} Yep {quote} It's actually 12.5 + 25.5 = 38 pips or 19 pips average for the two lots. The R:R is 1.5 {quote} After you add the 2nd position assuming you leave the initial stop at the original +6 pips from the 1st position your exposure on the 2nd position is 12 pips. Therefore 6 + 12 = 18 pips total risk if you get filled on the 2nd position and price reverses to hit your stop loss. The R:R is 1 Unless you manage this type of trade differently...
I see my error. I was going by adding the second half basically @ the first SL. As far as Fib, etc. go - don't use, don't have any idea how to use them. Maybe enochben can chime in - I know he uses them.
  • #1,254
  • May 13, 2013 12:23am May 13, 2013 12:23am
Good to see some posts in this thread again!

Mongo,

Can I ask about your second point here..

How do you treat instances where price goes +6, you add your other 1/2, then price comes back to your entry point? Do you close the trade placed at +6 for -6 and then hold the initial trade to see if it bounces and continue towards your TP? If so and it hits +6 again, will you add the other 1/2 of your position again?
Or do you close the initial position at BE?

Something you see a lot I find is price, taking off for 6, then coming back, flirting with the entry level and then either failing and hitting your SL or continuing on.
Interested to see how you treat these situations.

Hope you are well my friend!

Quoting mongolian
{quote} I don't know that I need to mark up your chart. It looks pretty clean from here. There were a couple instances that weren't marked that I would have taken, but that's ok. Let me ask you about your stops. (I'm totally just working this out in my head as I type this). You say total risk on full position is 13 pips. Show me how that works. From where I sit, I see where you get average price. Correct me if I'm seeing this wrong. I'll assume 2 lots to keep math simple. SL @ 1.3044 L1 @ 1.3025 Difference .0019 SL @ 1.3044 L2 @ 1.3038 Difference...
  • #1,255
  • May 13, 2013 7:04am May 13, 2013 7:04am
I see some of you guys using tick charts! What platform do you use to get these tick charts now that fxsol accucharts is gone?
  • #1,256
  • May 13, 2013 10:18pm May 13, 2013 10:18pm
Quoting nhen
Good to see some posts in this thread again! Mongo, Can I ask about your second point here.. How do you treat instances where price goes +6, you add your other 1/2, then price comes back to your entry point? Do you close the trade placed at +6 for -6 and then hold the initial trade to see if it bounces and continue towards your TP? If so and it hits +6 again, will you add the other 1/2 of your position again? Or do you close the initial position at BE? Something you see a lot I find is price, taking off for 6, then coming back, flirting with the...
Well it's a dance. Sometimes I step on the market's toes, sometimes I get my toes stepped on and sometimes, we are in unison together and we flow nicely to the music. I don't have a hard and fast rule for that second one. Generally, I do give it a bit more leeway since it's the second half. Give it the space to work itself out. Really it depends on me and how I am trading. If it's a day where PA looks like it's Chinese (I don't speak or read Chinese BTW) - I'm going to get stopped out more frequently. If it's a day where I see things like the Matrix, it's going to be a good day and things will just work. It's a shitty answer. All I can say is that as a trader - it's something that I have to be comfortable with. Is it right? Who knows - it's just how I do it.

Mongolian

Oh - and yes - I am well!
  • #1,257
  • May 13, 2013 10:20pm May 13, 2013 10:20pm
Quoting idude
I see some of you guys using tick charts! What platform do you use to get these tick charts now that fxsol accucharts is gone?
No tick charts here. I have not been able to figure out how to make tick charts work on MT4. Closest thing I've used (and thanks to to enochben for the file) is a renko chart. I do miss the tick charts though - that is for sure.

M
  • #1,258
  • May 13, 2013 11:50pm May 13, 2013 11:50pm
hi mongo

a cording to your method yesterday we had only one bad entry??


see my chart ( i am using the renko) 25,12.5

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Iam just A pips on the rode :nerd:
  • #1,259
  • May 14, 2013 7:08am May 14, 2013 7:08am
Ok after a lot more back testing I have found widening the stop and adding into a position at the next level (averaging into the position) is not much better overall.

Few reasons:
1. number of trades increases, if using an ecn broker with commissions cost escalates.
2. drawdowns are larger
3. you are effectively adding to an initial losing position - wrong behavior pattern (better to take a small loss and reassess market for next setup as suggested by mongolian)
4. in the trade a lot longer, where other potential set ups could have been taken and recovered the initial 6 pip loss
  • #1,260
  • May 14, 2013 7:23am May 14, 2013 7:23am
Quoting -er-
hi mongo a cording to your method yesterday we had only one bad entry?? see my chart ( i am using the renko) 25,12.5 {image}
Some days PA works out that way. Some days it's a real battle.
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